The Open Thread

[Duke]

I'm fairly sure that I like the idea of the karma system  at least as little as you, but I don't really see the point in making it only partially used, if at all.


Duke

[Sibling Kephra (Tansy)]

Hey Duke, how goes? 

The word 'collective' is the name of the game here.  We are in essence a collective. 
I don't mean that in ways of 'follow the crowd' or 'do/say what you think others would want'. 
We go out of our ways to break down barriers between each other here.  Open up to each other in pursuit of getting to know each other better.  If we don't agree; that's cool.  We agree to disagree. 
That whole can of beans creates our little cyber family, and we want those good feelings to continue. 
Should we have an issue with each other, oh we talk about it!    We all talk about it.  Collectively.  There's nothing to hide here.  That's one of the great things about this place!
The 'karma' systm is more of a general knowlege of how we're seen/thought of on here.  Mine's pretty low compared to others... that's fine with me.  I'm immature, silly to the point of annoyance at times, and am fully capable of having unpopular opinions.
And they still love me... *glow*  lol

[Sibling Qwertyuiopasd]

exactly. it'd be much more useful in a larger forum like TOP, as theres many people there, and many unsavory people there, and if the general consensus was "this guybis getting banned the next time he posts" people who are new will realize that.

in the monastery, we can still use it, or not, and express our feelings in an open manner.

of course, there is the possiblity of problems which would want to be deal with anonymously, so perhaps smitage is useful there. but really one would want to go to Opas for counseling or somesuch.

~Qwerty

[Sibling Chatty]

I think the concept of limiting the application of the karma points was to prevent abuse of the system. If it's open to any and all, there's no way to know that s negative came from someone that's even familiar with the system. (It is possible to apply karma points without posting in an open situation.)

[Duke]

I've always followed the simplicity philosophy: What is it, why do we need it?  I don't really see why we need a Karma system. It seems that it has more capability to hurt than help.


Duke

[Sibling Qwertyuiopasd]

one thing I notice Duke....

you're the only one who has brought up a problem with the karma system. even if its not a problem, it IS bringing it up, and not in 'this is a great tool' light.

also, you're the only one I've noticed with any negative karma.

it would seem to me at first glance that you aren't exactly esctatic at the idea of having negative karma, and therefore, you bring it up as a problem, or a '"why do we need it/its useless/it hurts(me)" statement. possibly in an attempt to remove the karma altogether, removing the negative karma, or perhaps just to get sympathy points, either in good karma, or in people posting either sympathy or agreeing with you in the karma systems flaws.

again, this is at first glance. please, divulge into your thought process so I may better understand what you're trying to say.

~Qwerty

[Duke]

one thing I notice Duke....

you're the only one who has brought up a problem with the karma system. even if its not a problem, it IS bringing it up, and not in 'this is a great tool' light.

also, you're the only one I've noticed with any negative karma.

it would seem to me at first glance that you aren't exactly esctatic at the idea of having negative karma, and therefore, you bring it up as a problem, or a '"why do we need it/its useless/it hurts(me)" statement. possibly in an attempt to remove the karma altogether, removing the negative karma, or perhaps just to get sympathy points, either in good karma, or in people posting either sympathy or agreeing with you in the karma systems flaws.

again, this is at first glance. please, divulge into your thought process so I may better understand what you're trying to say.

~Qwerty

You really do assume some far out things, Qwerty.


Quite frankly, I didn't care that I had negative 107 karma, it didn't bother me in the least. I never use the karma system on other sites and I wasn't planning on using it or playing attention to it here, either. But I was curious as to know if it was the same system as I'd seen on other sites, and I was told it is. But I was wondering why it was only allowed to be used for full Toadfish. Even though it doesn't effect me, I was wondering why it wasn't it wasn't used for all members if any members at all. I sincerely wouldn't mind if everyone, even guests, could use the system or if nobody could use it, but I was wondering why it was just halfway.

I don't think the karma system is a great tool or a terrible one. I don't think it's a tool at all. To me, it's just a gimmick that can be fun but doesn't have much of a point.

I don't see how someone could by sympathetic towards someone who doesn't care, or why I would want good karma points anyway.

Does that help you clear your head?


Duke

[The Meromorph]

Duke, reading your above post, I have to ask, are you saying you really don't care what people here think of you?

[Sibling Qwertyuiopasd]

Duke, for one, I never assumed what I posted. I said, its the first thing that came to my mind, wether its at all true is not something I knew, and therefore should not make an assumption on. I merely stated my first reaction in hopes things would be cleared up.

it is you who assumed that I assumed something about you. and remember, assuming makes an 'ass'_ume out of _ass'u'_me

I don't think the karma system is a great tool or a terrible one. I don't think it's a tool at all. To me, it's just a gimmick that can be fun but doesn't have much of a point.

It seems that it has more capability to hurt than help.

I'm sorry, these two statements seem to conflict. first you say you think it hurts (more than helps), but then you say it isn't bad or good.

although, you keep bringing up that it dosen't have a 'point', and that appears to be a bad thing in context with your quote, but again, I can never truly know what other people are thinking.


but overall, if you don't care, and your question has been answered, why do you continue to bring it up? I would go so far as to say you actually do care about it, simply because you continue to bring it up in an unsavory light.

~Qwerty

[Opsa]

Actually, it has been complained about before and we have considered pulling it out all together or changing it to only positive reinforcement.

The jury's still out as to what to do about it. Thanks for your input.

"Smite" has always seemed a tad rough to me, as all the negative sign is meant to indicate is a noticable lack of humbleness or tolerance. To improve, just ask an admin for a reset and try harder.

It's time to review whether any negative feedback is helping at all or just hurting feelings. I'm sure it was meant as constructive criticism. There have been a few of us that have had negatives put on our karmas in here. Try laughing at it.

[Duke]

Duke, reading your above post, I have to ask, are you saying you really don't care what people here think of you?

Not at all. If the karma system was an accurate representation of the forum community's opinion towards a person, then I would certainly care. I don't believe it is so. I'm not saying it doesn't matter at all, but it isn't perfect. I could have simply left, feeling shunned and insulted as soon as I saw the number -107, but I didn't. If you think that -107 accurately represents the cumulative opinion of the forum towards me, I would gladly leave.


Duke

[Duke]

it is you who assumed that I assumed something about you. and remember, assuming makes an 'ass'_ume out of _ass'u'_me

Assummed of assuming assumptions, perfect. If you re-read your post you will see a thing or two you may have not thought out exactly, but I don't want to get into this.

I don't think the karma system is a great tool or a terrible one. I don't think it's a tool at all. To me, it's just a gimmick that can be fun but doesn't have much of a point.

It seems that it has more capability to hurt than help.

I'm sorry, these two statements seem to conflict. first you say you think it hurts (more than helps), but then you say it isn't bad or good.

They don't contradict at all. I'm saying that I don't see what the use of the karma system is, but it appears, from my experience, that, when it is taken seriously, it proves divisive and offensive. Although not to me.

but overall, if you don't care, and your question has been answered, why do you continue to bring it up? I would go so far as to say you actually do care about it, simply because you continue to bring it up in an unsavory light.

~Qwerty

Has my question been answered?


Duke

[Sibling Qwertyuiopasd]

I'm sorry, I was under the impression your questoin was about who exactly can give karma or not. if its soemthing else I missed, please repeat it.

about the assumptions, whatever I may have written and whatever has been infered by you; I haven't assumed anything about you during this conversation.

ok... I get the part about you not actually feeling shunned, although you could've.... yoru exact wording had just confused me was all...


has someone complained to you about the karma system?

~Qwerty

[Duke]

I'm sorry, I was under the impression your questoin was about who exactly can give karma or not. if its soemthing else I missed, please repeat it.

No, that's not it. Not who, but why, more like:

But I was wondering why it was only allowed to be used for full Toadfish. Even though it doesn't effect me, I was wondering why it wasn't it wasn't used for all members if any members at all. I sincerely wouldn't mind if everyone, even guests, could use the system or if nobody could use it, but I was wondering why it was just halfway.

ok... I get the part about you not actually feeling shunned, although you could've.... yoru exact wording had just confused me was all...


has someone complained to you about the karma system?

~Qwerty

No, nobody came to me to complain.


Duke

[Bluenose]

I like the Karma system.  Personally I only award positive karma, and I try to remember to give out at least one one positive stroke everytime I log on.  I do not always remember, but when I do, its not too hard to find something that someone has said that's worth a "pat on the back".

I suppose if someone said something that really P**d me off, I might think about the smite option, but frankly I would probably simply take the argument up in a pointed reply, or more likely go away for a few hours and look again to see if I really feel the same way after I have cooled down a bit.

So, in this thread what I see is Duke and Qwerty being overly antagonistic toward each other.  Guys, you have both made valid points, but going over the same thing again and again simply creates more heat than light.

I suggest you agree that you do not have the same opinion as each other and let it stop at that.  There is no "right" opinion here, indeed one of the key points of this place is that we can disagree with each other without losing mutual respect.

When we express disagreement I have found (and it did not come naturally) that the best thing is to write exactly what you want to say, damn the torpedoes, get it all off your chest, and then delete what you've written and start again.  This time think about what you have written especially from the other person's point of view.  Ask yourself, can what I am saying be misinterpreted?  Remember that written words always seem more critical and more hurtful than you think.  When we write we have that little voice in our head, we hear the emphasis that we intend, that would work if we were speaking.  But when we write, we lose all that.  Try changing the emphasis of what you said (in your head), you might be surprised at how it sounds to the other side.  Use smilies, especially when using humour, 'coz what seems an obvious joke to you , might be received as being something deliberately and offensively rude.

Enough from me for now. 

Humbly (ie with respect),

Sibling Bluenose