Personal Growth

[goat starer]

I am absolutely certain that i have proof that you are all wrong. the proof unfortunatelt indicates that I am as well.

[Bluenose]

Of course, you could be wrong about that... 

[Griffin NoName]

Goat, I am so relieved you are back. I knew you'd have the answer.

I suspect that searching for wisdom, or even insight, in Philosphy has led many people to waste a lot of time and energy (and study). ........
.........
I gave up on Philosophers

The wiki definition of Philosophy leaves one little the wiser - pardon the pun.

Philosophy is such that it can be applied to many contexts. But you are saying you are interested in specific problems and tasks - specifics. So this seems like two different things to me...........
................

The philosophy is more about how you use the concept of self as a platform to address any challenge or problem at hand.  I still think my definitions of 'philosophy' is less rigid (and correct) than yours.

My definition of "Philosophy" as being such that it can be applied to any context seems to me to be identical to a concept (of self as a platform) to address any (challenge or problem at hand). Semantics?

What I was wondering about was if an insight into a specific problem/task, or a series of insights into specific problems/tasks can be a philosophy. If it can't, then jjj ignoring the philosophers is irrelevant   and  to Aggie, YAY! for Mero.

OTOH, you may be calling juvenile Eastern Rosellas female Eastern Rosellas*.

Reminds me, when my son was young he thought I was very wise. When he was adolescent he thought I knew nothing. (Now I'm good for advising how to get grass stains out of trousers.) Personally I find nothing teaches me so well as personal experience, if I notice.

Bertrand Russell's "Inductivist Turkey"

As far as I can work out this dates to 1912.
See also 1947 experiment by B.F.Skinner  Superstition in the Pigeon

[Bruder Cuzzen]

I am absolutely certain that i have proof that you are all wrong. the proof unfortunatelt indicates that I am as well.

[jjj]

I am having a great deal of difficulty in seeing any humbleness in your positions.

You mean I shouldn't mention the gained insight I found worked (and still works for me)...to appear humble?
But here I showed lots of humbleness or not? :

Thus, feel free to doubt/ discredit my insight, for I have no scientific proof to back up any of my claims other than relying on personal observation, experiences and some practice in amateur reasoning. Chances are, my claims still somehow make sense to you and so, I would feel humbled and delighted to share them with you.

I do not believe in absolute truth on any subject... You seem very sure of yourself.

I'm rather sure of what works successfully for me (than of 'myself') and when it works it must be logically correct and thus, is amendable!  - If it fails I have to ponder/ reason again until I get it right.  Humbleness doesn't come into play in this case IMHO.

I would like to know how (by what method) your philosophical insight is proven?

By reasoning... i.e. taking into account all factors associated with the subject/ problem and painstakingly evaluating each factor. When the result works > it must be logically correct and thus, is amendable!  - If it fails > I have to ponder/ reason again until I get it right. Of course this method requires lots of practice. The more practice the easier, faster and better the result IMHO.

...when you realised that "this can help others!

It's actually the pattern of the insight, rather than the insight itself from which I benefited, might help others.
Well, I started early (aged 17 or so) to ponder about how find true contentment in life. For decades I scribbled down countless philosophical notions/thoughts, yet the going was tough. The decisive moment (to which you refer) came around aged 43, when suddenly my 'picture puzzle' fell into place and I gained a panoramic view of personal development and my whole philosophical concept. 
Just checking myself: Maybe I'm not allowed to mention these details, because here it's viewed as 'assuming'? Please. let me know, because I am willing to erase it, if its infringing the forum's rules.

...to give you the kind of feedback you might came here looking for.

I find it merely stimulating to peruse alternative opinions on the same subject, since I have been 'in the game' since teenager.

Aren't other philosophies other people's reasoning?

Yes, they are indeed... and so, is the Bible, yet I'm too stupid to verify, try out or apply their teachings. I prefer empirical/ practical guidance to theoretical/ fictitious ones.
genetic superiority...
Good stuff!  Great artists, scientists, certain professionals etc. truly possess far higher evolved genetic coding than (me) or most of us. You got that one right, but please don't compare my philosophical concept of contentment with Hitler's aspirations... IMHO

[jjj]

Back to that one...

I don't even dare to allow myself indulging in other philosophies out of fear to forfeit/ corrupt my own reasoning source. I prefer to process  data on my own accord live, then compare it to other people's reasoning, finally amend it by trial & error as well as constructive criticism of others.

Actually, it's unimportant from where you get your philosophical inspiration, practice/ apprenticeship. You got it from philosophers of the past, I got it from... my humble brain fat. That's why we now think so different. In a way it's good, for it offers us some contrasting view points and helps us to enrich our philosophical gold nuggets.
Far more important is that we are now able to effectively apply the acquired tool of reasoning to our benefit! >  To solve our problems, to discover our true needs, develop our unique abilities and talents, find the emotionally compatible partner and battle all the way to highest possible, lasting contentment. That's why I lanced myself into philosophical pondering in the first place IMHO.

[Bruder Cuzzen]

Back to that one...

I don't even dare to allow myself indulging in other philosophies out of fear to forfeit/ corrupt my own reasoning source. I prefer to process  data on my own accord live, then compare it to other people's reasoning, finally amend it by trial & error as well as constructive criticism of others.

Actually, it's unimportant from where you get your philosophical inspiration, practice/ apprenticeship. You got it from philosophers of the past, I got it from... my humble brain fat. That's why we now think so different. In a way it's good, for it offers us some contrasting view points and helps us to enrich our philosophical gold nuggets.
Far more important is that we are now able to effectively apply the acquired tool of reasoning to our benefit! >  To solve our problems, to discover our true needs, develop our unique abilities and talents, find the emotionally compatible partner and battle all the way to highest possible, lasting contentment. That's why I lanced myself into philosophical pondering in the first place IMHO.

Hi jj, I also have not read any of the works of the great philosophers and I probably never will , although I am aware of many of them and their philosophies , I'm far more content to garden or post some nonsense in my beloved pirates cove .
It rather shocked me many times in my youth while sitting about with friends and chatting  , where I would make the occasional comment or offer an opinion and my friends would say ," Oh ,that is an inaccurate quote from Plato or Socrates or Mazlow or..." (this is how I found out about many of them ).
My response was always , " Who is she ?" , it was somewhat deflating when I discovered my brilliant epiphanies was hundreds or thousands of years old .

Now , if you have not read the the works of the philosophers , why should anyone read your philosophy and therefore corrupt their own thinking ?( I never will because i'll be gardening  ).

If you  ask , mention or suggest repeatedly to others to do so , would you not be the corrupter , thereby destroying your own philosophy ?

You have attained your own personal contentment , i should point out that I am quite content with my life , have achieved most of my goals and am having the greatest fun in this forum .( not a humble statement btw) .

I am aware of what you are trying to achieve and think it an honorable and unselfish way to spend ones golden years , attempting to keep or draw away kids from the dark side .

But it is paramount for me to  convey to you that we are not children and we live in the light and we are also attempting to draw those from the dark side and many have not read the philosophers and are refining our own philosophies (except for me, because I'll be gardening ).

So in closing jj ,  you should now be aware ( i hope ) that constant references are not required because we all understand English very well ( am i boasting?) and once is more than enough .

I beg of you , please address that habit , I think i can quote you verbatim now .

PS. if all this has been covered , you need not reply , i must go water my plants now , bye.

[jjj]

Plato or Socrates or Mazlow

I wash my dinner plates,  put on socks (its winter here) and butter (in Russian) the lot!

Now , if you have not read  the works of the philosophers, why should anyone read your philosophy.

I thought of that too the other day... A: You don't need to! Bu I wouldn't mind to discuss practical philosophical insight with Plato, Socrates and Mazlow in person.

I

f you ask , mention or suggest repeatedly to others to do so , would you not be the corrupter , thereby destroying your own philosophy ?

Most of my insight is in personal use and unlikely to be corrupted. Now I try only to amend it. One never knows, there might still be something I didn't think of.

I should point out that I am quite content with my life , have achieved most of my goals and am having the greatest fun in this forum .

Now you'r talk'n! Now it gets interesting. That's what I love to hear! Please more of how you did it your way. That's why the old folk meet to discuss their life's adventures. Sadly, you stopped!  What a shame, that this falls under TABU or humility rule. It's, because I like to compare our success pattern. Don't you get it? Nothing to do with flaunting or naked culture...   Well, go and water your beloved plants... 

please address that habit

I will try... but please don't ask me to substantiate my insight/ claims or I'll be forced to raise that upsetting 'flaunting stuff'...

[Opsa]

My dear jjj...

There is no taboo here about expressing what makes us contented. In fact, we have a whole thread for it, somewhere; Reasons to Be Happy (I think it's called)?

What we are attempting here is to find contentment using humbleness. The word is humbleness, not humility. We are not putting ourselves down. We are trying to think of others on equal terms. (BC suggested that we make a thread exploring the word humbleness, and it was an excellent idea.)

The reason we are excercising humbleness is that we have found that it is an avenue to contentment. There are probably many other ways to contentment (such as the ones you say you've found), but here on this particular forum, we are exploring the humbleness method.

Would you like to stay and join us in this effort?

[jjj]

Dear Opsanus tau,

Would you like to stay and join us in this effort?

As mentioned... I'll try my best.


P.S. I just saw on TV the name of that great Youth Camp documentary/series, I was mentioning the other day:
It's called Brat Camp,  Turn About ranch.

P.S. i have to turn off all 'Notify me of replies', because my partner uses my email and sees so many notices... thinking I'm not painting the flat etc. That's why I am here in Sydney.

[Bruder Cuzzen]

Plato or Socrates or Mazlow

I wash my dinner plates,  put on socks (its winter here) and butter (in Russian) the lot!

[Scriblerus the Philosophe]

jjj, I realize that this has already been solved, but I have a suggestion for you that I didn't see anywhere else. It may allow you to express your views and what has worked for you without causing issues.
Use qualifiers, such as "I think" or "in my expierence", etc.
I've found that even people who feel threatened by others (not any of us here, but in other places) usually will be ok with that.

[jjj]

Use qualifiers, such as "I think" or "in my expierence", etc.

Thx for that!    Yes, these are the kinds of 'tricks of trade' I need. I got a special paper, titled FORUM onto which I add such tips. I got to stay on the ball...

[Sibling Chatty]

It's something that probably comes from exposure to American advertising, but the repeated use of the ward "contented" makes me think of a large mooing cow.

I don't ever want to be so contented that I can sit back and think about how right I am about a damn thing. There is always something new to learn, always some other chunk of data I have never seen, ALWAYS an insight from another source that will turn the light in a different direction and make my mind work differently. Sometimes it's in a book or an article, sometimes it's a word or two from a most unusual source...but the mental processes HAVE to keep changing, moving, reaching for a better, more equitable world for everyone.

When that stops, I will have to be dead. And, although I am not yet considered old enough to be a decent 'older person' and thus venerable. I AM getting damn near as old as I will ever be. (So, when do my insights become a thing of great value to the community? 'Cause I'll sell them suckers, I need the cash.)
======================

Oh, yeah...

'his/one's genetically inherited true needs (or default values), incl. unique abilities and talents (if any)

So, let's get this figured out here...My Mom's family has a lot of musical talent. Mom at age 81 can still play most of the piano literature she played when she was a touring concert pianist in the 40's. Her other musical talents, aside from keyboard instrument abilities, are also strong. I have inherited much musical talent, almost perfect pitch, the ability to arrange and harmonize any composition with speed, vocal abilities, on and on...yet my keyboard talents are abysmal.

In this case my genetically inherited yadda yadda seem to have been interfered with by OTHER genetically (possibly, or else mutationally) expressed traits, ie dyslexia (especially numbers/symbols) and horrid eye/hand coordination related to the dyslexia (which is possibly related to the neurofibromatosis--which may be genetic inheritance and may be genetic mutation).

I'm less impressed by 'inherited, natural talents' than I am by someone who has the determination and the skill set to learn to do something well. A "natural beauty" that doesn't take care of herself is never as attractive as a normal looking woman who cares for hes skin, her health, gets proper rest, nutrition, etc. and then enhances her strong points. I see talent the same way. Many people with natural talent are content to coast by on it. they know they don't have to work for what they want, and don't.

I am MUCH more in awe of the person who has worked to learn the entire score of the opera than the one with the 'good ear' that can listen to it 10 or 12 times and then fake their way through...and extreme talent lends itself to that abuse, unless it's combined with an INSTILLED ethic to work for the best.

I often wonder what traits will be the best genetic ones for future survival. For a long time, the ability to carry extra weight was a definite advantage. You didn't starve as quickly during famine, so those genes carried on. Now, that trait is being genetically de-selected. What happens after the next return to famine times? Will the entire Hilton clan die out? (Famine might be worth that as a side benefit, you know?)

And leave it to my Goatie to have the wisdom of the ages on tap.

We are likely all wrong, and the future will prove that we are, and so is everyone else!

[jjj]

 

"contented" makes me think of a large mooing cow. I don't ever want to be so contented that I can sit back...

It isn't quite meant that way, you know? It rather means to fulfill all our true needs and so, enjoy them day in, day out. Of course, this also includes consistent personal growth.

I'm less impressed by 'inherited, natural talents' than I am by someone who has the determination and the skill set to learn to do something well.

The difference is determination and the skill is live 'genetic programming' and a talent is a 'readily, applicable product'. 

I often wonder what traits will be the best genetic ones for future survival.

Our ancestors worked hard to bestow us with great unique abilities and talents, which are the 'cream' of human evolution and so, can't be disadvantageous. Human evolution consistently endeavors to amend and progress and there's nothing wrong with that.