Gordon Brown poll on the EU Lisbon "Treaty"

[beagle]

Just to re-assure Goat I'm as right wing as he suspects, and to honour my manifesto commitment, here's today's poll.

[Pachyderm]

Unfortunately, the poll was missing a category.

Idiot and liar

[anthrobabe]

I like pie! and
beagle puppies

[Sibling Chatty]

NOT fair. Beagle puppies is teh cutez...I want one!!

[goat starer]

DEAR ADMIN - please give Beagle a severe reprimand for stifling debate by giving no options that make any sense to right thinking people who dont subsist on a diet of regurgitated Cameron drivel.

the treaty is nothing like a constitution. I would suggest that anyone who thinks it is looks up the definition of constitution, reads the treaty instead of believing the right wing press and then admits they are talking balderdash and joins the Heralds of the Red Dawn without further ado.

PS. before anyone (beagle) says i could have chosen option 3 I do not like pie.

(in fact i dont like any numbers over 3) 

[Sibling Chatty]

Chocolate pudding, then?

[Griffin NoName]

DEAR ADMIN - please give Beagle a severe reprimand for stifling debate by giving no options that make any sense to right thinking people who dont subsist on a diet of regurgitated Cameron drivel.

Speaking for myself, may I refer you to our more than competent Guardians for reprimandation.

Admins usually go straight for the kill. I feel sure this is beyond what you wish for your "friend". 

Of course, if one of the other Admins feels like flexing their.......


ps. I reluctantly ate pie and stayed stifled. But then I tend to be a people pleaser.

[goat starer]

oh alright then... let him off! He will get his comeuppance when the revolution comes 

[beagle]

the treaty is nothing like a constitution. I would suggest that anyone who thinks it is looks up the definition of constitution, reads the treaty instead of believing the right wing press and then admits they are talking balderdash and joins the Heralds of the Red Dawn without further ado.

I refer my honourable colleaque to the statements of Valery Giscard D'Estaing in Le Monde on the 26th October:

"Dans le traité de Lisbonne, rédigé exclusivement à partir du projet de traité constitutionnel, les outils sont exactement les mêmes."
...
"Quel est l'intérêt de cette subtile manuvre ? D'abord et avant tout d'échapper à la contrainte du recours au référendum, grâce à la dispersion des articles, et au renoncement au vocabulaire constitutionnel."

I will be happy to translate "exactement les mêmes" and "subtile manuvre" if Goat has any problems.

Does Brown really believe in an age of global communications that people don't know that all the other European leaders are saying one thing and he another?
No wonder he was too embarrased to turn up on time for the signing.

But out of an un-labour like dedication to grass roots democracy I'll add another totally unbiased option. 

[beagle]

Done.  I had to cancel all the votes so that Goat/Griffin and other fellow travellers could switch from pie to GB.
Sorry about that. I know reholding referenda until you get the right answer is normally the sort of thing shady transnational quangos do.

[Griffin NoName]

Still forced to eat pie <sigh>

This morning. Journalist: if you added (in or out of EU) to a referendum on the "treaty" wouldn't that kill two birds with one stone? William Hague: No. They are different issues. We need only a referendum on the "treaty". Then we'd know.

Someone draw him a Venn diagram..... please !!

(not that I wish to appear to collude with Beagle, it's Hague that has stimulated me - WOW Hague !)

[goat starer]

I will be happy to translate "exactement les mêmes" and "subtile manuvre" if Goat has any problems.

No thanks I am very good at french. The first one means "I am talking excrement" (again) and the second one is a sexual position.

As anyone who listened to Today this morning will know you can trade quotes about this treaty forever. Various european leaders have said things that could support both positions....

BUT

like Maastricht this TREATY does not cede any significant additional powers to the EU. As such it is not subject to any previous promises on a referrendum which related to a constitution which made binding agreements on governments which did cede powers.

I did not see a referrendum from your beloved capitalist swine on Maastricht so for them to bleat on about this one is preposterous. Only Ireland feels the need to hold a refferendum on this - all the other governments of Europe have taken the time to look at the treaty and see that it involved no shift of soveriegnty.

You are simply perpetuating myths about europe. It seems to be the favoured passtime of the right wing to make stuff up and have it accepted into the popular canon as FACT... eg Bendy Bananas and other assorted Murdoch and Daily Mail balls.

[Griffin NoName]

Beagle, may I suggest you purchase the box set DVD of the ITV show, The Palace. I am sure that would cheer you up.

[Pachyderm]

Yay! Thanks, Beagle. I done vote fer idiot & liar.

[beagle]

You are simply perpetuating myths about europe. It seems to be the favoured passtime of the right wing to make stuff up and have it accepted into the popular canon as FACT... eg Bendy Bananas and other assorted Murdoch and Daily Mail balls.

Us, and that noted right-winger Tony Benn. Incidentally it's not just right-wingers. last time I checked the Greens still believed in devolution rather than an empire from the Urals to the Atlantic.

Interesting story in the Torygraph the other week.  The leader of UKIP asked on EU TV why referendum campaigners had been chased around the building while anti-globalisation ones had been left alone. The question was deemed too provocative to go out and they were going to suppress it until the BBC threatened to withdraw coverage of both Brussels and Strasbourg.
Unless you can prove that one is a myth I really don't want these people in control of the BBC's Charter.