On Humbleness and Humilty

[Opsa]

Here at the Toadfish Monastery, we try to improve our communication skills using humbleness and humility as tools to keep things open and flowing between conversers. These can be confusing words to some people, though, as they seem to have a number of definitions. Let's explore this.

Humble can mean lowly. We do not mean to make anyone feel lowly here. We mean it more towards it's definition of unassuming. If I am not assuming something of you, I may be more open to hear what you have to say, and vice versa.

Humility sometimes refers to submission, but in our case it means freedom from arrogance.

Benjamin Franklin is credited with saying; "To be humble to superiors is duty, to equals courtesy, to inferiors nobleness." Of course here he is judging others, but is too decent to show it.

I guess it's a pretty tricky thing to try. But as a good friend once said to me: "Hey, if it was easy everyone'd be doing it."

[Kiyoodle the Gambrinous]

I can't really say what humbleness means to me. I guess the definition I would use would be "mutual respect".

Anyway, once we've started with interesting quotes on humbleness (the Franklin one) I thought that I would post two interesting quotes, I've run across some time ago, maybe that could add a little up to the discussion:


"The first element of greatness is fundamental humbleness (this should not be confused with servility); the second is freedom from self; the third is intrepid courage, which, taken in its widest interpretation, generally goes with truth; and the fourth /the power to love /although I have put it last, is the rarest."

- - -  Margot Asquith (Anglo-Scottish socialite, author and wit)

and:

"The humbleness of a warrior is not the humbleness of the beggar. The warrior lowers his head to no one, but at the same time, he doesn't permit anyone to lower his head to him. The beggar, on the other hand, falls to his knees at the drop of a hat and scrapes the floor to anyone he deems to be higher; but at the same time, he demands that someone lower than him scrape the floor for him."

- - - Carlos Castaneda (Brazilian-born American author)

[Alpaca]

For me, humbleness, in its most basic, day-to-day form, is the practice of allowing others the benefit of judgement. It is respecting one's fellow human beings enough to trust them to form their opinions of one soundly, and it is respecting oneself enough to trust one's merits to shine through of their own accord.

At least, that's one of the definitions.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

If I could complement I would say that it is avoiding judging others and at the same time avoiding placing one self above others. A mighty difficult thing to do if you ask me.

[Griffin NoName]

The Asquith Kiyo quoted resonantes for me. Particularly freedom from self.

Who am I to believe I am any more or any less than any other self. We are all selfs. I believe ultimately we are all one self.

If I am you and you are me, as I believe, then it is ridiculous not to be humble, with oneself.

Furthermore, when I listen to someone, or read what they have written, and I genuinely put my self aside, then I can really hear. Some call this humbleness. All I can say is I find it a place of pure being.

[The Meromorph]

I don't think I can give a defintion, because I'm still actively finding out what it means. Right here...

[Bruder Cuzzen]

I'm waiting patiently ( I think ) for jj 's reply and I wonder if he looked it up in the Oxford or Webster's for me . ( I'm still to lazy to do it for myself ....I'd much rather be gardening )

[Darlica]

I find this very interesting, as you might have noticed by now, I love to get things defined...   


Humble and humility is two of those words that, to me, always are depending on their context. 
And even though I don't consider my self a stranger to the English language any more, having had almost daily contact with it for most of my life (English classes begun when I was eight) it is still difficult to give an good definition of them from the top of my head.

Speaking as a non native English speaker my experience is; that how one defines, and understand, words like these have as much to do (if not more) with how rich your vocabulary in your native tongue is, as it has to do with how advanced your English is.
The richer your vocabulary is in your native tongue the bigger the chance that you will be able interpret the word correctly, by pairing it up with its' (in my case Swedish) counterpart not only translating one word against another but also taking in the context in which it's used and choosing the  translation that not only fits the word but also the context.

Take humble for example:
The first translation to Swedish is ödmjuk which means an attitude of respect and not putting one self above others.
The second translation is underdånig which means to be subservient,"an humble servant", yielding  or even obsequious.
The third and fourth translations is anspråkslös or oansenlig which more or less means "of simple origin".
The fifth translation is kväst which means what you feel after having been humiliated.
It have even more meanings among them "of poor quality".

I guess if one depend solely on dictionaries to translate a text, it is easy to get stuck with the meaning of the first translation, not to mention that many, more simple, dictionaries doesn't even list multiple meanings of a word. 

On my desk I have: one Swedish to English/English to Swedish dictionary, The Concise Oxford Dictionary, Collins English paperback dictionary and in the bookmarks tool bar field I have links to Webster's Rosetta Edition and to a Swedish/English on-line dictionary. And I'm not even ashamed of it!
I don't use them as much now days as I did two or three years ago, but I still use them when I feel insecure about how to express my self in distinct a way. Or for that matter if I feel to be ambiguous in a certain way.



(do I need to mention that those dictionaries got a good exercise today? )

/D

[Alpaca]

Heck, I'm a native English speaker, and I still have our huge American Heritage dictionary permanently stolen from downstairs on my desk, because sometimes I just can't bring the right word to mind.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

I get by using dictionary.com (added to firefox' search engines) although as a non native speaker I get bummed at times (ie: apparently my kid doesn't need a uniform at the school anymore but the guidelines state "Clothing that is unhemmed is allowed". What the heck is 'unhemmed'?).

[Opsa]

All I can think of would be like cut-off shorts.

I have my Webster's New College Dictionary and Roget's Thesaurus by my computer at all times. When I need the big guns I run for the huge Random House Unabridged Dictionary in the living room ( I call it the "Big Dic"! - no offense meant to persons named Richard! )

I love the Casteneda quote: "The warrior lowers his head to no one, but at the same time, he doesn't permit anyone to lower his head to him." I think of us all that way, here. We are warriors in that we are fighting to find out more. In some ways, we are fighting for power over our own egos.

[anthrobabe]

I don't think I can give a defintion, because I'm still actively finding out what it means. Right here...

Exactly-- thank you

humble---- for now, accepting that I do not know it all, will never know it all and will benefit from attempting to know it all by listening to others. Being open enough to accept that greatness can come from quiteness. I like the warrior quote-
I like the idea of mutual respect- for ones self and others.
and  etcetera

my favorite quote would be
"you must be the change you want to see in the world" M. Gandhi, this (to me) applies to all aspects- including person to person communication

[Alpaca]

What the heck is 'unhemmed'?

Preemptive apologies if that was rhetorical, but "unhemmed" literally means "not having a hem."

[goat starer]

i am definately lowly. 

[Griffin NoName]

i am definately lowly. 

That's possibly an impression you have from lowering your head to butt.