Year 2038

[Griffin NoName]

Forget HN51, HIV, and global warming.

Disaster is already stalking us in the form of the Year 2038 Bug.

Deadly. It may well be embedded in your washing machine, your electric toothbrush and goodness knows what else.

Don't say you haven't been warned !!

[anthrobabe]

Let the hoarding begin!

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

If I am still around in 2038, the last thing I will be worrying about is silly electronics' ability to calculate correct time.

By then, if I don't have a computer interface embedded directly into my skull, I'll be surprised.

In any case, I'll be so ecstatic to still be alive, that software will be the least of my worries.

How old, you ask?  Let's see, I must re-calculate my age.

Born, 1958.  This is 2008, so the math is simple, I'll be 50 this year.  In 2038, that's 2008+30 so 50+30 means I'll be 80 years young.

Since my family history is fraught with physical problems that usually begin to become severe at or around 65+, if I'm still alive at 80, either there were new as yet undiscovered medical "fixes", or else I'll have benefited from new artificial/cloned internal organs or I'll be dead.

As I said, I'll be surprised to still be around or surprised if I'm still lucid enough to notice the "2038" bug.

On the other hand, by then, maybe my consciousness will have been transferred into a massive [powerful, not physically large] computer core, and maybe I _will_ need to worry. 

The question then, would be this:  will it still be me?  Or will it just be a facsimile of me?  How could you tell?  And would the "me" that was inhabiting the machine be able to discern the difference?  Or, would it just be a "thing" that happens to have a copy of my memories?

I once asked my fundie brother in law a similar question, only it was about heaven.

It stemmed from a discussion on free will.

I asked, "Is there Free Will in Heaven?"

His reply, "Of course!"

My next question, "Will I be able to sin, then?  (in Heaven)"

"Of course not!  There is no sin in heaven!" He emphatically declared.

To which I replied, "then whatever it is that exists in Heaven is not me.  It may share my memories, but it is no longer me.  Neither does it have Free Will."

His response, "Oh, you could choose to sin, it's just that you wouldn't want to."

I replied again, "then, I reiterate:  It ain't me any longer.  For sometimes I want to commit sin" (at the time, I definitely wanted to commit a sin against one of the 10 commandments.... I'll leave it up to your fertile imaginations which one it was, at that moment...  )

I then asked, "Let us suppose that there came a time, when someone in Heaven decided that he/she just had to sin, and did so.  What then?"

His reply, "Then, I suppose they would immediately be cast out of Heaven"

So, I asked, "So. If Heaven is not a permanent end for people (for given eternity, everyone, sooner or later, will commit a sin, if they are still human) can we assume that Hell is not permanent end as well?"

He did not have an answer for this-- for he knew that if he said "no--Hell is permanent" then I would ask "Why?" for the logical conclusion is that sooner or later, everyone would end up there. According to his logic, obviously.

He never did get back to me on this one.....

[pieces o nine]

Oh noes! It be the end of the world as we knows it. Yet again!
The abacus nivir plagued us wiv these teck-nickel problems...

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Bob, that sounds like a discussion I had with a Theology prof. My question was on free-will/accountability in the case of a grandfather undergoing a distinct personality change during terminal illness and the medications treating it. Was he freely choosing his actions and words, and therefore accountable for them, or was he excused due to diminishing of reasoning and inhibitions beyond his control? And if so, where is the line drawn between physical and/or mental illness and freewill for anyone? (I wasn't even trying to trip him up.)

Answer: mumbletymysterymumbletygraceofgodmumblety. 

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Oh noes! It be the end of the world as we knows it. Yet again!
The abacus nivir plagued us wiv these teck-nickel problems...

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Bob, that sounds like a discussion I had with a Theology prof. My question was on free-will/accountability in the case of a grandfather undergoing a distinct personality change during terminal illness and the medications treating it. Was he freely choosing his actions and words, and therefore accountable for them, or was he excused due to diminishing of reasoning and inhibitions beyond his control? And if so, where is the line drawn between physical and/or mental illness and freewill for anyone? (I wasn't even trying to trip him up.)

Answer: mumbletymysterymumbletygraceofgodmumblety. 

Yeah.  I got that alot as a kid.  Every time I thought of a new "hard question".

Eventually, someone who was a bit more honest said, "we just do not know.  Our faith sustains us, and we believe in the essential goodness of god.  Therefore, we have to assume that the answer is good as well--- even if we do not know what it is."

I can respect that point of view.  Even if it ain't in me to "just believe" I can respect those who can and do.

I can also respect those who have certainties about the goodness of the creator.

What I cannot respect, though, is those who insist that the DO have all the answers, and that "mystery of god" or "god's will" IS an answer-- it's not. (according to my POV)

"I don't know" is an answer-- an honest one.

"Mystery of god" is not [imo].  It implies that there is an answer, and it implies certain things about that answer-- but it also assumes things that the questioner may or may not also assume or be in agreement with.

[Griffin NoName]

I always fail to understand those who can never ever answer anything with "I don't know". There are too many of them in the world. Let's hope they all have the 2038 bug.

[Pachyderm]

If it switches to Dec 13th 1901, this will be 71 1/2 years before I was born. My parents may have some explaining to do. Actually, so would my grandparents...

[Opsa]

I always fail to understand those who can never ever answer anything with "I don't know". There are too many of them in the world. Let's hope they all have the 2038 bug.

I answered one of the Opsalette's (age 9) many questions yesterday with "I don't know" and she replied "Oh Mom, you always have such good answers!". I didn't know what she meant at the time!

[Griffin NoName]

You didn't tell her that whopper about not knowing where babies come from did you?

[Aggie]

You didn't tell her that whopper about not knowing where babies come from did you?

When I get The Question from my (future) children, the answer will likely include the words 'oocyte' and 'zygote'. 

[Opsa]

You didn't tell her that whopper about not knowing where babies come from did you?

When I get The Question from my (future) children, the answer will likely include the words 'oocyte' and 'zygote'. 

No, I started talking about that long ago, while she was  still a baby and couldn't understand! I was quite technical, too. I figured I was trainiing myself to talk freely about it. Now it's not too bad, just a continuation of the conversation we started long ago.

[Scriblerus the Philosophe]

I have a friend in LA that I'm trying to get on here. We had some interesting discussions and I'd LOVE to see Crooks and Chatty go at it. Or him and Bob.
I'll pay to see that show.

No, really, over all, I think he'd be a great addition, and I'm going to keep trying. He had all the answers when I asked him stuff about it.

[Griffin NoName]

No, I started talking about that long ago, while she was  still a baby and couldn't understand!

Yeh, I did that too, when my son was 3. Or I thought I had. Clearly he must have understood, cos three years later he reminded me and said 'so how do you stop them coming'.

He had all the answers when I asked him stuff about it.

I think I got confused. You asked your friend in LA where babies come from?

[Scriblerus the Philosophe]

We need a smirking icon.
No indeedy. He seemed to think that all sorts of things came from LA, but babies were not one.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

I have a friend in LA that I'm trying to get on here. We had some interesting discussions and I'd LOVE to see Crooks and Chatty go at it. Or him and Bob.
I'll pay to see that show.

No, really, over all, I think he'd be a great addition, and I'm going to keep trying. He had all the answers when I asked him stuff about it.

I'm up.

In fact, I came here for an Argument.  I've even sported for the Full Course.  (I must, however, remember to avoid 5A, as that room is for Abuse)