Aussies ban death penalty

[Bluenose]

The Australian Federal Parliament has finally done something useful, see this article in Melbourn'e Herald Sun newspaper.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

At least! (despite the comments...  )
--
Sadly the only other news I read about Australia these days are related to the wholesale attempt to censor the internet. 

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

The Australian Federal Parliament has finally done something useful, see this article in Melbourn'e Herald Sun newspaper.

Largely symbolic, the paper said-- but such a symbol:  a testament to rational thinking, and a move away from the dark ages thinking.

Sadly?  The poll-responders clearly are of a dark-ages mindset, as when I voted (no, in case you couldn't guess) the results were disappointing-- 78% in favor of death.

Of course, such polls are pretty meaningless-- still.

[Sibling DavidH]

I think you'd get a majority in favour of the death penalty in the UK, too.
I often think about how "democratic" democracy is (or should be).  In the UK there is no important party which gives a voice to the pro-death penalty or anti-EU majority.  So we have elected representatives whose duty is to further those of our causes they agree with, and ignore the rest.
I have never come to a conclusion on this.

[Bluenose]

Well, I think that proper scientific polls show that the death penalty has less than majority support here.  The Herald Sun's demographic is one that would tend to attract more of those people, plus these sorts of polls usually attract a very biased sample in any case.

As for the censorship issue, I cannot believe that our government is wanting us to be seen alongside such excellent examples of intellectual freedom as China and Iran.  Bloody pollies....   

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Is there a chapter of the Pirate Party in Australia? It has reached certain notoriety in Europe after the attempts by the Movie/Music industry to pass draconian laws preventing internet freedoms.

Edit: check here.

[Swatopluk]

I read about 2/3 of the comments. If those are representative for Aussie mentality, it must be worse thatn certain parts of the US. In this concentration I usually find it only on really RW websites or where there is an obviously oranized flooding of comment sections. It's telling how repetitive the comments are, as if taken directly from a list of talking points (1. Singapore is safe through not being 'soft' on crime; 2. Anti-deathers are leftist/do-gooders/etc.; 3. You would change your tune, if one of your relatives suffered X; 4. Prisons are a waste of money and criminals are rewarded with free luxury lodgings and food; 5. The country goes to hell without brutal punishments (and politicians want it that way)). Add to that the rampant revenge fantasies. Some (far too many) more or less explicitly call for the return of 'medieval' (actually more renaissance and baroque) punishments follwing the logic that, if simple death does not deter, then slow torture to death will.
A reminder: Not much more than a century ago Britain executed several thousand people per year for crimes  that would not even carry a prison sentence today. Was Victorian England a crime free paradise as a result? Well, executions got to a good deal replaced by deportation. I wonder where all these petty thieves etc. ended up and what their descendants think about capital punishment.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

RWers usually are incapable to understand that any cost-benefit analysis requires rational thought. Criminals are notorious for their lack of rationality, if they think they can get away with their crime, it doesn't matter much if they will get a slap in the wrist or 40000 volts as punishment.

As for cost, the only way to make the death penalty more economic than imprisonment is if the accused is executed right after (s)he is declared guilty, which obviously would ensure that hundreds if not thousands of innocent people would be executed. Not that such condition is a problem with RWers but it tends to be a problem with the rest of us.

Lastly, a functional justice system does significantly more to reduce crime than any specific penalty imposed. When the great majority of crimes are competently investigated, a higher percentage are prosecuted and the non rational individuals are more likely to be out of circulation, thereby creating a more safe society. Not rocket science, but hey who said rational arguments win with RWers?

[Aggie]

Re: the death penalty, I think there's a large majority of left and right wingers who'd support it for certain crimes IF the policing and justice system was perfect (i.e. you definitely convicted the right person 100% of the time and executed immediately on conviction).  The difference lies in that RWers are more likely to either believe the system is perfect or not worry about the fact that it isn't.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Personally I believe that if an individual is beyond rehabilitation and a danger to society the death penalty might merit consideration, but philosophically I consider it hypocritical: if murder is morally wrong how is it right for the state to do it?

Then again wholesale murder aka war, ranks high with RWers so perhaps their position isn't inconsistent given a lower price for life.

[Aggie]

Personally, I believe there are some cases where it'd be more akin to putting down a rabid dog than state-sponsored murder (or perhaps I don't believe philosophically that murder is an absolute moral wrong in all cases); I tend to lean more towards violent sexual assault or 'sick' killings (serial killings or random murders especially where torture is involved; however, many of these may be due to mental illness in which case I believe lifetime incarceration in a treatment facility is more appropriate) as criteria and don't think run-of-the-mill gangland murders or crimes of passion would be sufficient to warrant the death penalty.  I don't support the death penalty because of the systemic flaws and do not consider ANY state capable of achieving the standard of proof necessary.

[Swatopluk]

I am also split on this. As long as there is no perfect system of justice, it should be a no-no.* On the other hand I entertain fantasies of the severed heads of Chain-Eye/Shrub/Rummy on spikes in front of the Oval Office. Facing inwards!
What could be possible is death as an option for convicts (as at the start of Escape form N.Y.), i.e. state assisted suicide for people sentenced to life without parole. But even that is open to abuse for it would give (even more of) an incentive to prison guards to make the life of inmates hell, so that they would choose 'the easy way out'.
In case of doubt let's follow the old proposal: introduce capital punishment for those proposing to introduce capital punishment.

*A perfect system of justice would require perfect humans and those would not need it in the first place.

[Sibling DavidH]

I say these really sick criminals should not be given the option, they should be put down.  The inhuman option is life imprisonment.  That's IF we're sure they're guilty.  Trouble is, here in the UK we've had so many cases of 'murderers' being released after many years.  Sometimes the trial was flawed, sometimes forensic 'experts' were peddling nonsense, often the police stitched the suspect up.  I'm sure it's no different in other countries.
So I agree with you folks: in practice we shouldn't execute. The whole area is very messy.

[Darlica]

I do oppose to the death sentence of the same reason as many of you is isn't reversible, too many innocent people have been killed in the name of the law all over the world.

Here in Sweden the capital punishment was banned in peace time from 1921, and in time of war in 1973 and the last execution that where held after a ruling of a court was in 1910, so it's pretty much a non issue here.

I do think that there are people that should be locked up for life, because the crimes they have committed are so heinous or that they still pose a threat to others, violent sex crimes and multiple  murders are two of the categories I'd like to see put away for life.
And I do think some people should have to do a longer time in prison than they have to because the way our system works. 

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

I have similar feelings about certain crimes against humanity, even with serial killers/rapists their impact is in the worst cases a tiny fraction of the damage made by those declaring wars on a whim or doing wholesale detention, torture or bombardment. If a serial rapist is a monster,what label can be applied to the men responsible for 300k+ deaths?  Not only those individuals are a clear danger to the world but their people abilities allows them to keep doing damage behind bars, or to get out/away with it.

A serial rapist can be locked to the end of time, a murderous demagogue can get out at any moment the political wind changes.