Toadfish in the UK/Europe

[Griffin NoName]

Hmmm.   According to this you need to be depressed to make money.

"All behavioural biases have some evolutionary reasons for existing and it's very tough to overcome those deep-rooted impulses," he said.

Montier thinks that human beings have been hard-wired by evolution to have an optimistic or bullish outlook on things.

"The depressed tend to be less optimistic," said Montier,.

Once again I find I am an advanced evolutionary specimen

So how come I am not filthy rich?

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

I heard in a radio program that the so-called 'successful' are pretty apt to deceive themselves. They mentioned an experiment with a test (that measures self deception with embarrassing questions) and a team of swimmers; according to the study an amount of deception can be positive suggesting that -in the experiment- the swimmer that consider himself invincible is likelier to win than the one that is more aware of his limitations. Ironically the people that don't lie to themselves tend to be depressed (see the world as it is). Either one of the studies is wrong or we are missing something.

[pieces o nine]

[edit] apologies for stepping on the UK thread, but I'm responding to the above post on attitudes and investing or success, surely not limited to one geographical area? [/edit]

Background: my close circle is comprised of single (of various ages and for various reasons) college-educated women. Occasionally the preparation and hard work pays off for one of us and she enjoys a period of 'success'. Looming over that success, however, there is always an outside force beyond her control, such as: layoffs among her clientele, or a catastrophic accident or illness, or a new and truly evil or just coldly calculating boss.

Now, I am endlessly fascinated by attitudes, conversations, and reality as experienced by this small and unscientific sample. There are hardcore, hard-wired optimists, convinced that an unflinchingly positive attitude will bend the universe to bring health, wealth and happiness to their lives. Their scheme for surviving problems here in the US -- or in the greater world -- is to refuse to engage in *any* aspect of the current socio-economic-political process, under the premise that separating from distress will insulate them from being affected by it. 

These particular individuals seem plagued by freakish problems, addressing which saps their time and energy from more profitable pursuits. Their blind optimism also leads them to make disastrous personal and business decisions, insisting that their faith and good intentions will be rewarded. The decisions made by the politicos and religious demagogues they are serenely ignoring have profound implications for every aspect of their future, which they expect to counter by mysticism and faith. In the end, blind optimism is their coping mechanism, and they will not easily give it up, despite the evidence that the expected payoff consistently falls short. 

There are also hardcore, hard-wired pessimists. Not surprsingly, they experience the same personal storms as their cheerful sisters. The difference: they *expect* the worse and so avoid some collateral problems. (ex: they expect other drivers to cut them off or change lanes without warning, and this vigilance helps them avoid accidents. They expect sabotage and perfidy from corporate rivals, and so avoid gossiping and hero-worshipping. They expect relationships to fail and so do not jump into them in a hormonal frenzy. They expect the worse of their elected officials and so pay close attention to what they are doing.) Their pessimism does not extend to delusions of grandeur: they do not believe they are 'attracting' or 'manifesting' problems by being aware of them. They're usually right, but can be real drags and do limit their options because of their attitudes. 

The rest vacillate between these poles, depending on the circumstance. My unscientific conclusion is that the optimists are better suited to risk-taking because they apparently can't imagine failure (despite past practice at it!). But they are uniquely unsuited to dealing with the responsibilities and challenges those risks entail. The pessimists are risk-adverse, although they are better suited to weathering the fallout (good and bad) from the risks.

I still haven't decided which group is responsible for perpetrating all the 'self-help' and 'think it to be it' type of marketing schemes.    Maybe a starstruck optimist dreams it up and promises the moon, while a pessimistic colleague makes darn sure to collect the $29.95 per copy. 

[Aggie]

There are also hardcore, hard-wired pessimists. Not surprsingly, they experience the same personal storms as their cheerful sisters. The difference: they *expect* the worse and so avoid some collateral problems. (ex: they expect other drivers to cut them off or change lanes without warning, and this vigilance helps them avoid accidents. They expect sabotage and perfidy from corporate rivals, and so avoid gossiping and hero-worshipping. They expect relationships to fail and so do not jump into them in a hormonal frenzy. They expect the worse of their elected officials and so pay close attention to what they are doing.) Their pessimism does not extend to delusions of grandeur: they do not believe they are 'attracting' or 'manifesting' problems by being aware of them. They're usually right, but can be real drags and do limit their options because of their attitudes. 

(snip)

I still haven't decided which group is responsible for perpetrating all the 'self-help' and 'think it to be it' type of marketing schemes.    Maybe a starstruck optimist dreams it up and promises the moon, while a pessimistic colleague makes darn sure to collect the $29.95 per copy. 

Heh, that description of pessimists, especially the examples, sounds very familiar; I am a theoretical pessimist and an operational optimist.  I expect the worst and am pleasantly surprised whenever it doesn't happen, so I end up relatively happy overall.



If I wasn't both too pessimistic to pull it off and too optimistic to want to take advantage of other optimists, I think I'd be rather good at perpetrating those kind of self-help schemes.   I am seriously considering writing a book on responsibly investing in the lottery (really - with the way things have gone this past year, I think my lottery investment scheme is beating the US market ).

The only self-help book I've ever taken a shine to was written by Anton LaVey. 

[beagle]

Hey P09, don't worry about "trespassing" in the UK thread. Don't think the title was ever intended as a fence, just a warning that posts might refer to topics and people unknown elsewhere.

I expect the worst and am pleasantly surprised whenever it doesn't happen, so I end up relatively happy overall.

That's pretty much me too. Though nearer the description (think it might have been Larkin's) "Not happy, but not unhappy about it."

I do think pessimism is an underated virtue in some roles. Like P09's examples, would you rather your aero engine was serviced by someone who says "hell, that pipe'll do another ten thousand hours", or some one who says "better replace it now"?

[pieces o nine]

I do think pessimism is an underated virtue in some roles. Like P09's examples, would you rather your aero engine was serviced by someone who says "hell, that pipe'll do another ten thousand hours", or some one who says "better replace it now"?

Hell, yes!

Reminds me of a rather gung-holier-than-thou* conference I attended on pastoral counseling. After a week of intense faith!-faith!-rah!-rah!-rah! one of the presenters closed his final remarks on what I considered a startlingly sane note:
There are things you aren't competent to deal with and you'll need to call in a professional. And that doesn't mean going through the yellow pages, looking only for fish symbols. When I leave here I'm going to the airport and get on a plane to go home. I don't want to hear a voice over the cockpit speaker saying, 'I've never flown one of these before, but I really love the Lord!' 

Back to your regularly scheduled comments...


*credit to Alan Alda & the writers of M*A*S*H*

[Griffin NoName]

Oh, yes, PO9

Hey P09, don't worry about "trespassing" in the UK thread. Don't think the title was ever intended as a fence, just a warning that posts might refer to topics and people unknown elsewhere.

is right....

like the fuss I failed to explain, the fusses we have here are very hard for non-Brits to comprehend even in the rest of Europe.....

Anyway, we all crash the Canadian thread 

Hey, how come the US threads aren't "identified"?

[pieces o nine]

Hey, how come the US threads aren't "identified"?

For the same reason there is a section called "Women's Studies" in bookstores and libraries. 

[Griffin NoName]

Hey, how come the US threads aren't "identified"?

For the same reason there is a section called "Women's Studies" in bookstores and libraries. 

Oooooo we so need a "Girl's" Thread 

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

I don't want to hear a voice over the cockpit speaker saying, 'I've never flown one of these before, but I really love the Lord!'[/i] 

I don't get how that one is universal but going to a doctor isn't*

*have you heard of the church of Christ scientist?

[pieces o nine]

I don't get how that one is universal but going to a doctor isn't*

*have you heard of the church of Christ scientist?

Yeah. A good friend and her husband were both Christian Scientists. He served as a medic in Vietnam because he was a conscientious objector; the experience still messed him up, badly. By the time they were ready to consent to give him proper treatment and medicine -- and the diagnosis and prescribing of which went through VA red tape -- he was worse off. And worse with 'adjustments'. And so on. It was sad and wasteful all around.

I think the presenter chose the example he did because it was very effective in getting around the mental blocks and filters firmly in place for most in that particular audience. Hopefully, they remembered and were able to apply that insight into other situations where others need more than one's own faith.

[edit] Your question piques my curiosity. I've met (self-identified) Christian Scientists now and then, but they've been few and far between. And aside from sensational stories, they're not much in the news.

Does this group have a stronger impact where you live? How about elsewhere in the UK and Europe? [/edit]

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Hey, how come the US threads aren't "identified"?

For the same reason there is a section called "Women's Studies" in bookstores and libraries. 

Oooooo we so need a "Girl's" Thread 

I hope not! (Besides, don't we have them anyway, down in health and such?) That was just this comedienne's cynical observation on determining categories for 'exceptions' to the 'norm'. 

[Griffin NoName]

Your question piques my curiosity. I've met (self-identified) Christian Scientists now and then, but they've been few and far between. And aside from sensational stories, they're not much in the news.

Does this group have a stronger impact where you live? How about elsewhere in the UK and Europe?

I'm not aware of a strong impact anywhere.

But then I am not even aware of whether the "church of Christ scientist" is the same as "Christian Scientists"

I find it hard enough keeping up with Rowan Williams  -  it was so much easier when my friend Bob was at Lambeth
blatant name dropping.

Hey, how come the US threads aren't "identified"?

For the same reason there is a section called "Women's Studies" in bookstores and libraries. 

Oooooo we so need a "Girl's" Thread 

I hope not! (Besides, don't we have them anyway, down in health and such?) That was just this comedienne's cynical observation on determining categories for 'exceptions' to the 'norm'. 

[/quote]
I should have included the smilie

[goat starer]

[edit] apologies for stepping on the UK thread, but I'm responding to the above post on attitudes and investing or success, surely not limited to one geographical area? [/edit]

blinking foriegners... coming over here and using our threads! I pay my taxes for this thread. Just because we have a national thread service every tom, dick and harry in some tin pot colony thinks this is an open invitation to come over and use our hard earned ........ blah blah blah

where is my daily mail?

[Pachyderm]

I used it for the hamster's bedding. I've got this nice copy of the Grauniad if you want it...

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

[edit] Your question piques my curiosity. I've met (self-identified) Christian Scientists now and then, but they've been few and far between. And aside from sensational stories, they're not much in the news.

Does this group have a stronger impact where you live? How about elsewhere in the UK and Europe? [/edit]

I sincerely hope they don't. I know about them because back home (in Bogota of all places) I had to cover a friend that sang in their service, and had the 'pleasure' to hear their 'dogma', plus the admissions of sin from the congregation because they had been tempted by Satan and taken aspirine for a headache.