Limits of religious tolerance thread

[Aggie]

Ah, topic drift...  business as usual around here.

Back on topic a bit (although I'd like to hear more about DIY bath products - sounds like an excuse to pick up some more essential oils) I think I can speculate a bit where religious intolerance comes from. 

It seems to me that people who have come individually to their actual faith, no matter what religious tradition or lack thereof they may have been raised with, have a greater capacity to tolerate other personal expressions of faith.  It's one thing to know what works best for yourself, and quite another to have the hubris to insist that it'll work for everyone.  I think that religious intolerance has a lot less to do with the faith aspects of religion and a lot more to do with social aspects, and xenophobia in general.  When one has been raised in a regionally dominant faith, and hasn't ever met someone that didn't belong to their religion, the simple fact that they are dealing with an unknown can be uncomfortable for them...  and that's assuming that they haven't been deliberately misinformed or taught to be intolerant of a specific faith.

As an example, one of my friends (Friend A) hadn't ever had much contact with people of other races and nationalities (also, his father is mildly racist), and was very uncomfortable when we went over to the home of another of my friends (Friend B), who is a Vietnamese immigrant.  It didn't take him long to adjust, once he got to know Friend B and see the common interests and values...  he actually made the dead-innocent, but revealing, comment to me afterwards that "(Friend B's family) are just like everybody else" .  Um... duh.  Of course they are - but apparently this isn't common knowledge.  It's a big part of why people can discriminate based on superficial differences.

[Sibling Lambicus the Toluous]

It seems to me that people who have come individually to their actual faith, no matter what religious tradition or lack thereof they may have been raised with, have a greater capacity to tolerate other personal expressions of faith.  It's one thing to know what works best for yourself, and quite another to have the hubris to insist that it'll work for everyone.

Hmm... I've found the opposite in some atheists.  I think they see their beliefs as the culmination of their personal journey of logic and rationalism, and decide that anyone who doesn't come to the same conclusion can't be logical or rational (or is just stupid).

[The Meromorph]

It seems to me that people who have come individually to their actual faith, no matter what religious tradition or lack thereof they may have been raised with, have a greater capacity to tolerate other personal expressions of faith.  It's one thing to know what works best for yourself, and quite another to have the hubris to insist that it'll work for everyone.

Hmm... I've found the opposite in some atheists.  I think they see their beliefs as the culmination of their personal journey of logic and rationalism, and decide that anyone who doesn't come to the same conclusion can't be logical or rational (or is just stupid).

Well,
I came to those same conclusions when I was much younger. I don't come to those conclusions now. So maybe age and developing wisdom have a lot to do with it. I mean 'everyone' develops age, but a lesser number seem to develop wisdom along the way...

[Aggie]

Hmm... I've found the opposite in some atheists.  I think they see their beliefs as the culmination of their personal journey of logic and rationalism, and decide that anyone who doesn't come to the same conclusion can't be logical or rational (or is just stupid).

Yah, I left atheists out... 'hard' atheists are a special case.  I'm getting more and more convinced that some people don't have spiritual perception....  and that not all atheists are aspiritual.  There's also the issue of those who follow a 'one and only true faith' that cannot accept that altenative paths can have personal validity to other people.

[Willowsmith]

When I went through my "black period" or crisis of faith or whatever name suites (though really it is just justifying my place in life, the universe, and everything) I realized that everyone is right. If only to themselves. I do think you are right though about it being more of a social thing. People, generally want to belong though too. I feel they want to be right and they want to be told they are right. Every group has fluffy bunnies though, not just Christian's or Muslims but any group you can name will have a few loud obnoxious creeps who ruins it for the lot. Age is a common affliction and you are right that not all who age become wise, however you do not need to be very old to be very wise. I have met young people, not yet corrupted by society, who have a greater under tanding of people and life then those who profess the ability to lead multitudes to divinity. Wisdom is a tricky thing to gain, I only hope one day to be able to acquire it.

[Sibling Chatty]

he actually made the dead-innocent, but revealing, comment to me afterwards that "(Friend B's family) are just like everybody else"

My family (and when not at college, I) lived (yes, in The South, in 1973) in a very racially
mixed middle class area. I had a group of people that stayed at our house when there was a meeting we all wanted to attend--300 miles away from our small town college, and light-years away from some of the small towns they came from.

My favorite comment of the weekend??

"Their dogs look JUST LIKE white people's dogs!"

And their houses, and their cars, and their wardrobes and their... Culture shock really hit when we all went to church, and our white pastor and black assistant pastor shared the platform with our Hispanic music director, and NOBODY TALKED "DIFFERENT"!! Granted, that was a bit unusual for a southern Baptist church in the 70's but it was sad to realize that these students weren't aware enough to realize that the multi-racial student body at HPU wasn't made up of Oreos and Pinto Beans (black/brown on the outside, white on the inside).

[Aggie]

Granted, that was a bit unusual for a southern Baptist church in the 70's but it was sad to realize that these students weren't aware enough to realize that the multi-racial student body at HPU wasn't made up of Oreos and Pinto Beans (black/brown on the outside, white on the inside).

Heh, I'm an Egg.  Or maybe more like kimchi mandu....  look like a perogy on the outside. 

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

...(though really it is just justifying my place in life, the universe, and everything) ...

Douglas Adams Reference!  Yaaay!

[Willowsmith]

Hee Hee gotta have at least one Douglas Adams reference somewhere. 

[Griffin NoName]

"(Friend B's family) are just like everybody else"

When I was at college a newly made friend looked at me in blank astonishment on finding out I was Jewish, saying in a seriously shocked tone of voice "you look so ordinary. I thought Jews had pointy green ears or something." This was a shy lad from a northern english town who had never met anyone jewish before, in fact had never met many people before, and who probably had never expected to ever meet someone like me. It's hard to believe he really thought exactly what he said, but he really did.

[Sibling Chatty]

Granted, that was a bit unusual for a southern Baptist church in the 70's but it was sad to realize that these students weren't aware enough to realize that the multi-racial student body at HPU wasn't made up of Oreos and Pinto Beans (black/brown on the outside, white on the inside).

Dan says to tell you that it's getting expensive to have me look at this picture and then take him the keys and say DUMPLINGS NOW!! It's a good thing College Station has several reasonable Dumpling places... He thinks i've definitely started channeling Jennie from tDP...

Heh, I'm an Egg.  Or maybe more like kimchi mandu....  look like a perogy on the outside. 

[Outis the Unready]

I was raised secular scientist in a UU and liberal Jewish neighborhood in a blue state union town and refer to Muslims, Christians and Jews collectively as "abrahamicists" and my Pagan shampoo is pantene.

That being said, when I was an atheist (and briefly a non-theistic Satanist) it was because I had no religious experiences. When I had a religious experience, I realized that, just like I could not prove my experience to others, others couldn't prove their experience to me, and if their deity was fair (as they claim) that their deity would contact me if it wanted me to follow it.

That sort of experience does change how you view stuff.

[Griffin NoName]

It's great to see you posting again Outis. I noticed you using the term abrahamicists in another thread. I'm intrigued by what may be the difference between that and abrahamists. I think I prefer the latter but I'm not sure why.

[ivor]

It's great to see you posting again Outis. I noticed you using the term abrahamicists in another thread. I'm intrigued by what may be the difference between that and abrahamists. I think I prefer the latter but I'm not sure why.

I like abrahamicists. It sounds like I can go get a prescription to have my goat's entrails examined or something.

Hey!  Where's Goat Starer?  Here goat...  Here goat...

[Aggie]

That being said, when I was an atheist (and briefly a non-theistic Satanist) it was because I had no religious experiences.

  Just caught that...  hey, path convergence!  I definitely think now that faith (like the rest of life) is a journey, not a destination.

---------

We still have some brainstorming to do in regards to increasing religious tolerance (since it's a stated Toadfish goal), though....  other than simply EXPOSURE and EDUCATION, what can we do to encourage interfaith tolerance and understanding?