Bail me out!

[beagle]

The problem with American car companies is they build the cars they want to build and not the cars people want to buy.  I suspect that the "labor" issue is just a straw-man argument.

I think there's a bit of substance to it. I saw figures saying that worker health/retirement benefits added over $1000 a car, whereas in those evil pinko European/Asian countries health costs are spread across all taxpayers, not paid by employers. Of course the U.S. also shot itself in the foot on steel tariffs but that was 2002 so the effect has long gone.

Ford have good efficient models in Europe (e.g. Focus), but I'm guessing Americans didn't want to drive something that small until oil prices brought about a sudden re-evaluation which caught manufacturers on the hop. Ford and GM with big trucks/SUVs are a bit like Sony and CRT screens IMHO; they just didn't realize how quickly the wind could change.

[ivor]

They had to have know.  I knew it.  Who didn't know the price of oil was going to go up.  The automobile manufacturers just don't want to change.  They wrap themselves in the flag and say, "buy American," so they can keep building the same crappy gas hogs they've been building for 60 years, because they know they will get free money from the gubmint.

[Opsa]

I knew it too, and was absolutely gob-smacked when Ford (and other US auto company) commercials continued to promote SUV gas hogs and the notion of "power" connected with them. It was even more amazing how gullible some people were to have gone and bought these monsters. What the heck were they thinking? They are big, inefficient, expensive to buy, and expensive to run. They were irresponsible and I don't feel sorry for them.

They should have halted all work on those beasts and focused on the hybrids. People want to buy hybrids and other efficient vehicles. The more they make, the less expensive they'll be and the more people will buy them. Even an idiot like me can figure this out. These companies just didn't want to spend money on the new research, but they will be forced to do so, if they survive. They'd be doing their workers and the rest of us a favor if they did.

[DaveL]

Ughh...

I can't beleive that the commitment to hybrids or other energy types has been inacted upon. Here we only have the Toyota Prius to point to of late. Where's the others?

Let's just buy the patents, sit on them and make sure they never see the light of day. Good strategy guys.

Not good...not good... (begins chanting)

[Griffin NoName]

What I want to know is why this financial global crisis is not being used as an opportunity for CHaNGE...

It's fabulous these manufacturers are unable to continue production.................  What Luck !!

Don't bail out the automobile manufacturers so they can go on producing the same old same old.

Use this bail out to enforce the manufacture of electric and hybrids.

If nothing else is being made, people will either stop driving (good) or be forced to drive clean (good).


** available to advise governments - fees reasonable - hours erratic

[beagle]

What I want to know is why this financial global crisis is not being used as an opportunity for CHaNGE...

I think maybe more than enough changes are already occurring at once for our political masters.  Ford and GM aren't the only big corporations that will fail  if they can't roll over debt, and they're scared of a domino effect of failure of confidence.  Who's going to make a big ticket purchase of anything if they think it might be unsupported in a few months?

[Scriblerus the Philosophe]

This is going to be a fun hole to climb out of. 

I heard someone say that the auto bailout was more or less a bailout of their healthcare plans. Ford alone has, like, $16 million in benefits they have to pay for.

[beagle]

Suspect it might be a bit more than that; I read they spent $3.5bn on healthcare in 2005 alone.
It's a cost their competitors don't have. In Europe (not so sure about Asia) health care is paid for by the state (i.e. ALL taxpayers). The most companies sometimes do is offer subsidised health insurance to key workers, but it's a taxable benefit so many don't take it up, and it often only kicks in if the national health service has long waiting times for something, so it's a fraction of the premium cost of U.S. insurance. Also Americans have higher health care expectations on service and convenience, which puts the cost way up.

Having said all that, no doubt in my mind that Honda/Toyota have far better strategies.

[pieces o nine]

I knew it too, and was absolutely gob-smacked when Ford (and other US auto company) commercials continued to promote SUV gas hogs and the notion of "power" connected with them. It was even more amazing how gullible some people were to have gone and bought these monsters. What the heck were they thinking? They are big, inefficient, expensive to buy, and expensive to run. They were irresponsible and I don't feel sorry for them.

They should have halted all work on those beasts and focused on the hybrids. People want to buy hybrids and other efficient vehicles. The more they make, the less expensive they'll be and the more people will buy them. Even an idiot like me can figure this out. These companies just didn't want to spend money on the new research, but they will be forced to do so, if they survive. They'd be doing their workers and the rest of us a favor if they did.

Sadly, there *is* a market for those ridiculous vehicles. There is a small but very well-heeled sector of the population which cannot stop itself from spending its obscene wealth on disposable, faddish status symbols designed to use as much land - water - gasoline - [fill in the blank with any endangered or limited resource which can be marketed as "upscale"] as possible  because they can. 

A few years ago I saw a horrible bit on PBS (?) showcasing *very* wealthy consumers in the Dallas-Ft Worth area gleefully shopping for what I call "Urban Assualt Vehicles" -- monster SUVs which none of those people had the slightest honest need for. They got all stoopid-patriotic when queried about the 8-miles-gallon fuel consumption during the clear beginning of the gas price rise/acknowledged limits on availability, whinging about their "American Lifestyle" which they seemed to believe was a god-given right, written by the Almighty Himself in the Consitution.

              

Meanwhile, I'm surrounded by otherwise very nice people who wish they were among those who can afford Hummers and will therefore defend to their own deaths the rights of idiots to have a full selection of them each model year. They think there is somethin suspiciously anti-murkin, librul and tree-huggin   [<a *terrible* insult here!]   about me because I strongly endorse efficient public transport and smaller, affordable, efficient hybrid personal vehicles. Those who truly need  to pull livestock trailers livestock or haul around piles and piles o'stuff in giant honking pickups, fine.  The majority *don't* need to take up an entire lane in vehicles too large to see around, over, or under!

WARNING!  WARNING!  WARNING!  ANTI-TOADFISH SENTIMENT AHEAD!
If their dicks *would* actually fall off from driving a responsible, reasonably sized vehicle, well, it's no great loss in my opinion...

[Scriblerus the Philosophe]

Sadly, there *is* a market for those ridiculous vehicles. There is a small but very well-heeled sector of the population which cannot stop itself from spending its obscene wealth on disposable, faddish status symbols designed to use as much land - water - gasoline - [fill in the blank with any endangered or limited resource which can be marketed as "upscale"] as possible  because they can. 

This is my entire town. The elementary school I went to hosts no fewer than three Hummers, I see no fewer than four a day, and THEN we have the asphalt schooners that wallow along, filling the entire lane.
One advantage, however, is the bro'd* out Hummers that you can see under.



_{*see definition 3 if you're confused.}

[beagle]

WARNING!  WARNING!  WARNING!  ANTI-TOADFISH SENTIMENT AHEAD!
If their dicks *would* actually fall off from driving a responsible, reasonably sized vehicle, well, it's no great loss in my opinion...

Clearly the term BCSD (coined by a famous English brothel madam based on her observations) which starts "big car" hasn't reached you yet.

[Aggie]

Clearly the term BCSD (coined by a famous English brothel madam based on her observations) which starts "big car" hasn't reached you yet.

I'm familiar with the concept.  I drove a Pontiac Firefly for 8 years....

We finally moved up to something bigger (old-model Hyundai Santa Fe - DON'T call it an SUV) but with a fuel-sipping 2.4L engine.  We've been driving a lot less lately, haven't readjusted based on the lower fuel prices - hey, if it's going to keep dropping, the longer between fills the better.


I saw a Suzuki Sidekick or similar tiny jeepish vehicle the other day that had been custom rebranded with Hummer nameplates and "H8" where the model decal would normally be. 

[Sibling Chatty]

Quick cut to B/CS Target parking lot, where a HUGE honking Hummer is in the handicapped parking spaces (two of them, yes, BOTH at once) that were available as I headed toward them.

OK, no HC tags, no HC hanger...

So, I get out, with my trusty cane (the 4 footed extra support/extra poking thing model) and holler at the two Bro/Frat Rat types heading into the store..."You pussies gonna move this Small Dick Compensation Machine, or do I need to get the cops to do it for you?"

One hollers back, "Try it, Ho." I flipped open my cell, called the cops, and watched as they pulled in. (My passenger had already called them on HIS cell. I LIKE having a cousin that's the City Manager for that city.)

They ticketed them, they towed the vehicle, and they arrested one of them for threatening me and the other for a possession charge and then 4 outstanding warrants.

Oh, and I wrote "Small Dick Compensation" in the dirt on the rear window...

My cousin wants to have them hire me to go piss off people that park illegally in the handicapped spaces. Nepotism!! (Except that I can't have any lawful income or I lose my medical coverage...and the city won't pay me under the table.)

That was kinda fun...

[pieces o nine]

Clearly the term BCSD (coined by a famous English brothel madam based on her observations) which starts "big car" hasn't reached you yet.

Oh, it has.   


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Topic Tangent:  an old friend's sibling, spouse, and un-housebroken kinder-units were at her parents' house one day when we were there. Sib & Spouse were upset because the little girl (whom they had festooned in a miasma of frilly lace and petticoats) was playing with the monster-tire toy trucks belonging to her little brother (who was machismo-duded up by his "afeared a' the homerseckshooall agenda" parents). They kept trying to make her play with 'girl toys' but she wanted the trucks. I suggested that they let her play with them, because if they insisted on dressing her that way, it's exactly what she'd be riding around in all too soon.

Friend and her parents bit their tongues to keep from laughing.

Sib & Spouse were Not Amused.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~


Chatty: good for you! 

Maybe they could "hire" you to do this as a sort of ... hmmmm ... "ministry" ... (if the church-state line is as blurry in your area as in other parts of the South?).

[Griffin NoName]

What I want to know is why this financial global crisis is not being used as an opportunity for CHaNGE...

I think maybe more than enough changes are already occurring at once for our political masters.  Ford and GM aren't the only big corporations that will fail  if they can't roll over debt, and they're scared of a domino effect of failure of confidence.  Who's going to make a big ticket purchase of anything if they think it might be unsupported in a few months?

So change the political masters. All of 'em. Prospective and Actual.

I do not ignore the other points, including healthcare etc. but on the "if it aint broke dont fix it" approach, it's time for the "if it is broke, ditch it".

The post WWII western world has failed. Stop patching it up and applying sticking plasters. When will this be recognised?

Where's Goat when we need him?