Smoking a cigarette up to 24 hours before being with a baby causes cot death

[Griffin NoName]

Ok I smoke. You know that, Yes it's bad. Very bad. Yes I have tried to give up. No I can't. Not right now. It's one step too far. I know, I know, yes, everything you say is right.

Anyway, onto the science.

At Natural Chidlbirth Classes my son and d-i-L were told that breathing out the air in one's lungs, for up to 24 hours after Smoking a cigarette before being with a baby can cause cot death.
Yes, it's NATURAL chidbirth classes, the ones all the nice middle class mummies and daddies go to cos the NHS ones are crap. Hell, I went to them myself 30 years ago.

Anyway, the deal is if I want to see my grandchild I obey the mantra. To contemplate letting his son into danger is more than my son can bear.

Of course I agree straightaway. Well you would wouldn't you. With the sword of never seeing your new grandchild, fisrt and only, exquisite feller, hanging over your head.

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Well what do you know. 2 days later I wake up, the statistician inside me wakes up too.

Hey it says WHERE'S THE SCIENCE?  Where's the evidence?

How big was the sample size? How many cot deaths were involved? How did they ensure proper controls. Indeed, was there even a control group. And, how did they get round the ethical dilemma.

I want to know. I need to know. Where were these families incarcerated and then randomly exposed without knowing it?

Is there a cemetary somewhere, or funeral parlour 518 for randomly killed babies?

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Of course, to keep my son dying of worry, poor lamb, he who grew up in a house of two adult smokers, of course I'l put myself through purgatory. Once at least. Even if I never get to see the child again.

Oh and yes, I do realise my grandchildren will never be able to visit my home, ever, until the youngest (and goodness lets hope to make it easy they are all planned) is HOW OLD?

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Anyone know where these NATURAL people got their sciience from.......... or are they just a bit well NATURAL (aka ~ s i m p l e ) busybody dogooders ardent followers of that which is above questioning any of the possible Lords above us?

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In any case, it's all a little premature. So far there is no plan for how I am going to be able to see this baby at all. Given that I cannot do a four hour journey. etc etc. But, it's good to make plans for how I should behave should that preventing issue ever change - saints preserve us.

Oh Oddly. I have swapped from SCIENCe to the Lord.   find me the bible that tells me I must not smoke, ever, or I go to hell, bad hell, bad, bad, hell, for definite. I need it NOW. Excuse me while I just go sacrifice a chicken to my grandson's continuing well-beaing. Ooooo I am so mixed up.

[Aggie]

 

Aaaaaand the mode of action is what....?

Nicotin is water soluble, so assure them that you have bathed after smoking but prior to contact.  Of course most of the true nasties in cigarette smoke are more likely to be alcohol-soluble, so be sure to have several stiff drinks as well.


If you find any actual science on this, please post links.  Sounds a bit like natural bovine-sourced fertilizer to me (Mum is into various natural-health memes from time to time and I regularly rate their BS factor based on what I know - of course, I don't know it all, but some things are dead obvious BS).

I don't doubt such a study exists, but like you, I question the statistics and scientific method.

[Griffin NoName]

Oops sorry Aggie I forgot the main bit of SCIENCE......

It shows that the air that you breathe out, still, after even as long as 24 hours, is the risk factor.[/b]

To be fair, I think my son's actual word were, they think there's a risk.......

The fresh clothes and baths come under quite a different ordinance and of course people all over the world indulge in that ritual alreay every two minutes.

Just in case you were worrying about my son going into any public areas with his baby.

I've amended my first post as I would not want to make incorrect claims.

[Aggie]

Well, then it should be fine if you wear a SCBA.

[Griffin NoName]

Gee thanks !   Blinding sanity!!   Eternal gratitude for this solution.

[ivor]

I'm trying to quit smoking right now.  I have my n i c o t i n e  p a t c h on.  I'm about ready to roll one up and see how it smokes...   

It seems I have won Last Post Bingo as well.   

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

I'm trying to quit smoking right now.  I have my n i c o t i n e  p a t c h on.  I'm about ready to roll one up and see how it smokes...   

It seems I have won Last Post Bingo as well.   

Ever see the Simpson's episode with Crusty the Clown trying to quit?

He would put patches everywhere he could find bare skin.  Amusing.

I've heard the gum works for help in controlling the oral-fixation cravings.  I dunno myself-- I've always been deathly afraid of starting smoking, what with childhood asmatha and all.

[The Meromorph]

It's a proven fact that 100% of heroin users have eaten sliced bread at some time prior to becoming addicted...

[Sibling Chatty]

So out of the 5 kids my brother had, and the 8 and one on the way...ALL raised in smoking households, and NO problems?

Griffin, switch to an all natural tobacco (if one's available there) with no additives. 3 minutes after Dan's had a cigarette, you can't smell it on him, on his breath, anything. It's not the tobacco, it's the additives that'll kill ya.
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About nicotine patches...My niece Brandy was being admitted to the State Hospital for the Temporarily Discombobulated (I will be killing her estranged husband soon. VERY soon.) they asked if she smoked. She said yes. They said, OK, well get your nicotine patches.

She sat up straight and said "What am I supposed to do for my formaldehyde and methyl sulfide and pyruvic acid and all that shit!! My cigges have up to 1,500 additives! Where am I gonna get all that crap???"

She's been trying to quit by making herself research and memorize tobacco additives...

I'm seriously thinking about getting her tubes, an injector and some pure tobacco. If she's going to smoke, at least smoke something that's not loaded with extra garbage.

YUM!!

# Rye Extract
# Sage, Sage Oil, and Sage Oleoresin
# Salicylaldehyde
# Sandalwood Oil, Yellow
# Sclareolide
# Skatole
# Smoke Flavor
# Snakeroot Oil
# Sodium Acetate
# Sodium Benzoate
# Sodium Bicarbonate
# Sodium Carbonate
# Sodium Chloride
# Sodium Citrate
# Sodium Hydroxide
# Solanone
# Spearmint Oil
# Styrax Extract, Gum and Oil
# Sucrose Octaacetate
# Sugar Alcohols
# Sugars
# Tagetes Oil
# Tannic Acid
# Tartaric Acid
# Tea Leaf and Absolute
# alpha-Terpineol
# Terpinolene
# Terpinyl Acetate
# 5,6,7,8-Tetrahydroquinoxaline
# 1,5,5,9-Tetramethyl-13-Oxatricyclo(8.3.0.0(4,9))Tridecane
# 2,3,4,5, and 3,4,5,6-Tetramethylethyl-Cyclohexanone
# 2,3,5,6-Tetramethylpyrazine
# Thiamine Hydrochloride
# Thiazole
# 1-Threonine
# Thyme Oil, White and Red
# Thymol
# Tobacco Extracts
# Tochopherols (mixed)
# Tolu Balsam Gum and Extract
# Tolualdehydes
# para-Tolyl 3-Methylbutyrate
# para-Tolyl Acetaldehyde
# para-Tolyl Acetate
# para-Tolyl Isobutyrate
# para-Tolyl Phenylacetate
# Triacetin
# 2-Tridecanone
# 2-Tridecenal
# Triethyl Citrate
# 3,5,5-Trimethyl -1-Hexanol
# para,alpha,alpha-Trimethylbenzyl Alcohol
# 4-(2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohex-1-Enyl)But-2-En-4-One
# 2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohex-2-Ene-1,4-Dione
# 2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohexa-1,3-Dienyl Methan
# 4-(2,6,6-Trimethylcyclohexa-1,3-Dienyl)But-2-En-4-One
# 2,2,6-Trimethylcyclohexanone
# 2,3,5-Trimethylpyrazine
# 1-Tyrosine
# delta-Undercalactone
# gamma-Undecalactone
# Undecanal
# 2-Undecanone, 1
# 0-Undecenal
# Urea
# Valencene
# Valeraldehyde
# Valerian Root Extract, Oil and Powder
# Valeric Acid
# gamma-Valerolactone
# Valine
# Vanilla Extract And Oleoresin
# Vanillin
# Veratraldehyde
# Vetiver Oil
# Vinegar
# Violet Leaf Absolute
# Walnut Hull Extract
# Water
# Wheat Extract And Flour
# Wild Cherry Bark Extract
# Wine and Wine Sherry
# Xanthan Gum
# 3,4-Xylenol
# Yeast

That's a few from the 1994 list. The new ones are heavier to chemicals, with fewer 'natural' additives, like yeast, wine and sherry, spearmint oil, etc. but they've not been forced to release a list since...1994.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_additives_in_cigarettes

[pieces o nine]

# Tagetes Oil

I noticed that one as I found a bottle (the only bottle I have ever found) of Tagetes (Marigold) pushed to the very back of a dark shelf in a surprisingly well-stocked little shop.

I'd read about a treatment for a nail problem a relative was dealing with (decided not to make it for her after more research). Later read that this was among the essential oils being Restricted For Our Own Good. To put the danger into clearer perspective, Bergamot and Lavender were also on that danger! danger! list...

I sympathize with nic-o-tine addicts, but I wouldn't put a an infant or child in a smoky room, either. Banninating someone who has bathed, changed clothes, brushed teeth? That does seem a little extreme. (Perhaps one could be sprayed, prophylactically, with a blend of tagetes, begamot and lavender!)

[Griffin NoName]

MB you want to send yourself a new LPWB to put in the filter?

Mero, I gave up sliced bread years ago because of its dangers.

[Griffin NoName]

Ha!  Feeling very pleased with myself. I have tracked down where this delightful piece of nonsense has come from.

It's a single source.

Lancashire Evening Telegraph June 2005

An article on cot death in which was embedded a statement from an anti smoking campaign group which included within their general rant about the evils of smoking:

""Even if someone smokes outside they are still breathing out health damaging chemicals for up to 24 hours."

No link to cot death claimed, even in the article. Just a the anti smoking rant from one individual, which happened to include that phrase.

There's nothing remotely like it anywhere else that I can find with google.

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So is urban legend formed. Sad life. Actually I feel really angry.  I am more than happy to comply with anything that is "proven" but every time Joe Public is exposed to scientific myth my heckles rise. I suppose I can't stand the way it makes fools of everyone. I suppose I can't stand the way it causes people to live with little more than superstition. I think my anger comes from an upbringing where my parents could hardly live for all the rules they had - and still can't. It's definitely a deep seated thing with me.

Of course both my sons make fun of all the rules (superstitions) I have. Now I am seeing the chickens coming home to roost. Or rather they are. I wonder how long it will take for them to realise they are just following in the grandparental footsteps, as I have done, despite deriding it and thinking I am fighting against it.

[Swatopluk]

Well, I think I have to spoil that heroin claim. Sliced bread is not universal the same way that heroin is.
On the other hand tobacco plants seem to attract certain radioactive isotopes* and smokers thus increase their daily dose significantly**.

*I have heard that planting tobacco has actually been considerd for soil decontamination for that reason.
**though this probably isn't a significant facor in the detrimental effect of smoking, same a getting shot is not dangerous primarily due to potential lead poisoning.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

same as getting shot is not dangerous primarily due to potential lead poisoning.

Why can I see a lawsuit to bullet manufacturers from gunshot survivors hitting that nail rather than the obvious one?

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

same as getting shot is not dangerous primarily due to potential lead poisoning.

Why can I see a lawsuit to bullet manufacturers from gunshot survivors hitting that nail rather than the obvious one?

On the other hand....there IS/are lawsuits against duck/fowl hunters and lead poisoning of local water resources.   At least, there's rumors of such.

But the lead poisoning of local water resources is real, it seems.  Years and YEARS and years of bird hunting over lakes leaves pounds of lead shot into the bottom(s) of lakes.

All birds have a gizzard, into which they deliberately swallow stones as ersatz teeth.  Water birds typically get their stones from the bottoms of the lakes they frequent.   Lead shot at the bottom of the same, these birds ingest the shot which poisons them with lead.  Rendering them unfit not only to eat, but as parents-- it messes up their egg production, etc.

Nowadays, lead shot is prohibited in most areas, and steel or antinomy-alloy and similar is used instead.  Steel is harmless-- what iron-based animal doesn't require a bit of iron now and again?

Now, back to your regularly scheduled thread.