No Oklahomasexuals??

[Sibling Chatty]

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/79318/

Poor Sally Kern...her career as an Oklahoma legislator may be in trouble.

http://www.victoryfund.org/files/listening.html

Pray to EVERY imaginable Deity of choice that she doesn't go back to teaching.

Maybe she just need to be a full-time helpmeet and loving wife to her minister husband.. .http://www.olivetbaptistokc.com/news1.html

Auughhh...stupid THAT BAD has got to hurt.

[pieces o nine]

I have read -- and tried very hard to *not* participate in -- several extremely heated debates on the 'free speech' vs 'hate speech' inherent in these types of statements. The common denominator in fear-mongering by very repressed (or godly, take yer pick) individuals is an entrenched us vs them mentality.

In the US, such persons usually find a receptive and supportive audience among politically (e.g.: socially) conservative, fundamentalist, evangelical Christians. Because the identity of this group is so closely bound to an ideal of thinking, speaking and acting as one body, and to the setting of and single-minded pursuit of realizing agendas to correct a (sick and sinful) world, it is very difficult for its members to envision any other way of operating.

Therefore, any group targeted as 'other' (and therefore dangerous) is assumed to be a monolithic, tightly-knit threat, with all members rabidly dedicated to bringing about their 'agenda' and 'forcing it down the throats of everyone else' to 'take over' and change society. Such a classic case of projection enacted time and time again would be comical if the effects weren't so serious for vulnerable individuals within the target group.

The Sally Kerns of the world sleep better for knowing that they are fighting the good fight against teh eeeeevil, blind to their own moral shortcomings, and willfully ignorant of their significance in spreading the word for the opposition. Any opposition, even when courteous and reasonable, and especially when issuing from a no-longer-marginalized or invisible 'few', reinforces the repressed group's view of itself as a tragically persecuted bastion of righteousness.

A label covers a spectrum of behaviour with *at least* two kinds of extreme flanking a largish middle ground. That middle ground tends to be -- middling -- in its fervor, regardless of the cause. Especially when the Middle Ground opens its eyes and realizes that its own families include straight and gay, conservative and liberal, some kind of physical ailment in all members, more than one ethnicity, more than one religion, more than one social strata, more than one political leaning, coupled or not, children or not, more than one type of employment, more than one level of education, more than one flag, more than one monolithic, over-arching anything.

There's a reason why she addressed the remarks in question to a small, closed, receptive group, rather than letting them fly on every stop of her campaign trail and in every address before her legislature. She's expecting that damage control in the form of waving a flag and a Bible will whip her constituents into blind compliance. Now we'll see what the Middle Ground of Oklahoma is made of...

[Sibling Chatty]

Saddest to me is that Pam's House Blend includes some information that she has a son, Jesse, that is rumored to be gay. When questioned about it, her remarks were that he's never said so to his father, or to his brother... No denial.

This has got to be one really sad individual.

[Griffin NoName]

Hold on, reality check, my mother and one sister have both said about my not having a husband "I don't know how you do it. I couldn't do it.".

That's ordinary middle ground people. Over an ordinary middle ground issue. Issue?

[Sibling Chatty]

Hold on, reality check, my mother and one sister have both said about my not having a husband "I don't know how you do it. I couldn't do it.".

That's ordinary middle ground people. Over an ordinary middle ground issue. Issue?

Huh??

Total TILT--no connection that I can see. What am I missing?

[Griffin NoName]

Hold on, reality check, my mother and one sister have both said about my not having a husband "I don't know how you do it. I couldn't do it.".

That's ordinary middle ground people. Over an ordinary middle ground issue. Issue?

Huh??

Total TILT--no connection that I can see. What am I missing?

Especially when the Middle Ground opens its eyes and realizes that its own families include straight and gay, conservative and liberal, some kind of physical ailment in all members, more than one ethnicity, more than one religion, more than one social strata, more than one political leaning, coupled or not, children or not, more than one type of employment, more than one level of education, more than one flag, more than one monolithic, over-arching anything.

The Middle Way. Conform or else....

OK maybe off topic but my mind's wandering.

[Sibling Chatty]

Oh, got it...

My mind can't get up the energy to wander.

Nap time comes every 2-3 hours...

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

As one of the representatives for Oklahoma in HOT, I would like to apologize for the very rude behavior of one of our state legislators.

The speech in question was supposed to be "off the record" according to Kern's spokesweenies.

But as she was speaking in her official capacity as a legislator, anything she says is grist for the public mills.

I understand Kern is quite peeved that the speech was leaked.  However, according to this blog (warning strong language) Kern says in rebuttal:

In an exclusive interview with News9.com Kern (R-Oklahoma City) admits it is her voice on the recording and stands by her comments. She said she's just stating the facts on what she believes.
...
"Shame on the person who didn't have the courage to come and say, 'I'm going to tape you and put it out on YouTube,'" she said.

In the speech, there is also an implication that she is sympathetic to the KKK and antisemitism as well as anti gay.

Hopefully, this will be a wake-up call, and the gays of OK will rally to get this person removed-- either now, under the hate speech idea, or later, when her term is up.

According to friends of mine who track those things, Oklahoma has a higher percentage of gays per person than most of the rest of the US.  Supposedly only SF has more. They [Oklahoma gays] just mostly keep quiet about it-- not in the "closet" so to speak, but no parades, demonstrations, etc.

However, at least some of them are organized, and PFLAG has a large presence in OK.

But, once again, I find that I must apologize for the actions of an official of my state.

*sigh*   

[Aphos]

Yes.  Sadly, Oklahoma is a very, very Red state, and this sort of nonsense does not surprise me one bit.

[pieces o nine]

Especially when the Middle Ground opens its eyes and realizes that its own families include straight and gay, conservative and liberal, some kind of physical ailment in all members, more than one ethnicity, more than one religion, more than one social strata, more than one political leaning, coupled or not, children or not, more than one type of employment, more than one level of education, more than one flag, more than one monolithic, over-arching anything.

The Middle Way. Conform or else....

OK maybe off topic but my mind's wandering.

Sorry, Griffin, if I gave the wrong impression with my statement. I'm painfully familiar with the 'conform or else' pressure from the middle as represented in my own family, but I was trying to make the point that extremists don't really operate from the middle, even when they claim to.

My premise was that the middle may follow a talking head from one extreme or another, but by being in the middle their zeal is somewhat less. Also, they are more likely to encounter non-conformists of one type or another in their own families, and eventually these encounters lead to a change in attitude. (Of course, that change can lead to more restrictions as easily as less...)

Is that better? No? I hope so... 

Therefore, the reaction of Oklahoma's middle majority to this speech will show where that middle's 'values' actually are at this time, and where they're likely to be going in the near future. More "conform and repress or else"? Or more "get your nose out of my private bidness"? If it's the former, Sally & Co. has free rein in both the public and private sectors. If it's the latter, she does not.

I hope that they're more like Bob.

-pieces

[Griffin NoName]

No need to apologise. I wasn't griping. I just get cross with representing extreme in my family !!!!

[anthrobabe]

this biotch is just another KKK breed(and breeder) arse that has a soap box for her garbage. she's gotta pass away from natural causes or old age one day.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Dispatches from the Culture Wars has this response to Kern from a very talented Oklahoma City High Schooler. 

I present it here, one because it is most eloquent, and two, to demonstrate that even in Oklahoma, we have some humans who can integrate thinking with deep feelings, and not sound like a mouldy fruitcake.

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2008/03/a_brilliant_reply_to_sally_ker.php

Rep Kern:

On April 19, 1995, in Oklahoma City a terrorist detonated a bomb that killed my mother and 167 others. 19 children died that day. Had I not had the chicken pox that day, the body count would've likely have included one more. Over 800 other Oklahomans were injured that day and many of those still suffer through their permanent wounds.

That terrorist was neither a homosexual or was he involved in Islam. He was an extremist Christian forcing his views through a body count. He held his beliefs and made those who didn't live up to them pay with their lives.

As you were not a resident of Oklahoma on that day, it could be explained why you so carelessly chose words saying that the homosexual agenda is worst than terrorism. I can most certainly tell you through my own experience that is not true. I am sure there are many people in your voting district that laid a loved one to death after the terrorist attack on Oklahoma City. I kind of doubt you'll find one of them that will agree with you.

I was five years old when my mother died. I remember what a beautiful, wise, and remarkable woman she was. I miss her. Your harsh words and misguided beliefs brought me to tears, because you told me that my mother's killer was a better person than a group of people that are seeking safety and tolerance for themselves.

As someone left motherless and victimized by terrorists, I say to you very clearly you are absolutely wrong.

You represent a district in Oklahoma City and you very coldly express a lack of love, sympathy or understanding for what they've been through. Can I ask if you might have chosen wiser words were you a real Oklahoman that was here to share the suffering with Oklahoma City? Might your heart be a bit less cold had you been around to see the small bodies of children being pulled out of rubble and carried away by weeping firemen?

I've spent 12 years in Oklahoma public schools and never once have I had anyone try to force a gay agenda on me. I have seen, however, many gay students beat up and there's never a day in school that has went by when I haven't heard the word **** slung at someone. I've been called gay slurs many times and they hurt and I am not even gay so I can just imagine how a real gay person feels. You were a school teacher and you have seen those things too. How could you care so little about the suffering of some of your students?

Let me tell you the result of your words in my school. Every openly gay and suspected gay in the school were having to walk together Monday for protection. They looked scared. They've already experienced enough hate and now your words gave other students even more motivation to sneer at them and call them names. Afterall, you are a teacher and a lawmaker, many young people have taken your words to heart. That happens when you assume a role of responsibility in your community. I seriously think before this week ends that some kids here will be going home bruised and bloody because of what you said.

I wish you could've met my mom. Maybe she could've guided you in how a real Christian should be acting and speaking.

I have not had a mother for nearly 13 years now and wonder if there were fewer people like you around, people with more love and tolerance in their hearts instead of strife, if my mom would be here to watch me graduate from high school this spring. Now she won't be there. So I'll be packing my things and leaving Oklahoma to go to college elsewhere and one day be a writer and I have no intentions to ever return here. I have no doubt that people like you will incite crazy people to build more bombs and kill more people again. I don't want to be here for that. I just can't go through that again.

You may just see me as a kid, but let me try to teach you something. The old saying is sticks and stones will break your bones, but words will never hurt you. Well, your words hurt me. Your words disrespected the memory of my mom. Your words can cause others to pick up sticks and stones and hurt others.

Sincerely

Tucker

[Aphos]

Kern is probably one of those Baptist sort of Okie that won't have sex standing up...because someone might think she was dancing.

[pieces o nine]

The letter was written from the heart and makes some very important points. Good for him for writing it.

I do wish that he had proofread a little better (or maybe asked someone to do it for him). He made fewer mistakes than are bound to be generated in passionate letters to the editor, pro and con, but they do jump out. A stickler teacher or critic is apt to focus on the mistakes in his writing and conclude there are similar mistakes in his thinking.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
My sister married a Southern Baptist, from a congregation so exclusive that they were all related by blood or marriage. (No -- not the WBC.) His family made a big stink about everything, culminating in objections to the reception being held at the VFW hall because . . . well . . . there might be alcohol on the premises(!). I happened to be home when one of them warned, ominously, that unless we moved the venue, they would not be able to attend. Since I had heard quite enough about this *particular* family by then, I cheerfully responded, "Well that's too bad. We'll have to celebrate without you."

They did attend. Our family has no moral objections to alcohol, they just don't drink much, and laid in a supply of non-alcoholic bubblies out of courtesy. There was another wedding reception on the other side of the accordion wall divider, a wedding reception well-fueled by a very extensive bar. Guess which 'side' kept sneaking off and slipping back-and-forth through the divider all evening?   (Hint: not the bound-for-hell-catholics. Ha!)