Stockholm suicide bombing

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

I would suspect that jihad is related to first* or second** hand exposure to poverty and authoritarianism. Add a plausible prosecution complex and it isn't that difficult to influence vulnerable young people. I would even go so far to say that the supposed 72 virgins, etc, are not the core motivation for would be suicide bombers, but a feeling of righteousness/vengeance for the perceived responsibility on the misery of their group/faith/race.

As long as the west is seen as supporting the authoritarian regimes in the Muslim world, there will be attacks on the west even if the bulk*** of the responsibility fall on their own dictators.

* the individual was born in an impoverished situation and/or under an authoritarian regime.

** the individual is presented with evidence of said poverty and/or authoritarianism.

*** both classic and neo colonialism have a non insignificant role, though.

[Scriblerus the Philosophe]

I would even go so far to say that the supposed 72 virgins, etc, are not the core motivation for would be suicide bombers, but a feeling of righteousness/vengeance for the perceived responsibility on the misery of their group/faith/race.

This. Allah and paradise are cover or secondary motivations, imo, even if the jihadi doesn't really realize it. I'm reading a book called Spiders of Allah by James Hider, and one of the chapters spent some time in Israel-Palestine in the West Bank (iirc) and that seemed to be pretty much what was happening. Israel's treatment of the place seemed to be leading them to crank out little soon-to-be jihadis left right and center. And in Iraq, too. There really was no good way to handle the war in Iraq, but we made more of a mess of it than was necessary and that's fueled at least some of the attacks on our troops.

[Aggie]

I am not comfortable in voicing this, but I've been reading the Qu'ran a bit lately, and in the translation I'm reading I do see a fair bit of material that could be quite easily bent out of shape and used as justification for violence under the guise of faith.  

I'm not even remotely suggesting that Islam is inherently violent or that the Qu'ran legitimizes violent acts, but selectively reading / quoting from it to encourage 'holy war' by impressionable individuals - especially in cases where an outside non-Muslim group is perceived as invading or attacking a Muslim society - does not seem to be a difficult task.  On a gut level, I agree with Scrib and Zono that this has little to do with 'reward'; I'd contend instead that a misplaced sense of duty is more likely to be a motivator.  I'm not even halfway through the book though, so I am not making a fully informed statement and reserve the right to change my interpretation.


OTOH, turning Christ's teachings of 'Love Thy Neighbour' into messages of hate and 'Give all your possessions to the poor and follow me' into 'Screw everyone you can and God will reward you', takes some real talent.  

[Swatopluk]

I only know of Luton from a joke in a Corries song (The Folker) indicating that it is really end of the line.

Don't know the Corries' version.  If it's about 'just a come-on from a groupie down in ...', then it should be Clifton (Bristol), not Luton.  It's a Fred Wedlock song, y'see.

The lines in the Corries version run:

Well, I stand on stage the hero a martyr to me trade,
And carry the reminders of all the gigs I've played in like the Irish Club <long pause> in Luton,

----

Sri Lanka was leading the world in suicide bombings for many years. The perpetrators were primarily atheists, so posthumous rewards cannot have played much of a role.

[Lindorm]

Luton or not, inbred small town or not, translated islam inherently violent or not.

My point still stands: We have a history of over 25 years of racist violence from neo-nazi groups, with hardly a response at all from official Sweden. Then, a confused person who most probably ought to be under psychiatric care blows himself up and tries to motivate his actions with islamist wordings. The response? Massive calls for more police, more surveillance, more data retention and increased powers to the police and military intelligence. The Social Democrats who went to election on, among other things, a promise to repeal the so-called "FRA Act", giving massive powers to police for electronic surveillance practically without any oversight, have now made a 180-degree turn and fully support it, as well as other even more draconian measures.

I feel rather disgusted, and it's not hard to start thinking about, say, the bombing of the Milano Central Station.

[Swatopluk]

Germany also has a history on this that one cannot reasonably be proud of.
The reactions over here were similar with the leftist RAF terrorists (not talking about the British RAF during WW2 here ). Old and Neonazis? No problem, if they keep out of view of the foreign (Western) press. And wouldn't we all like to bash some guestworkers (torching became popular only after 1989)? But unruly long-haired students with leftist sympathies? Danger to the State! Danger to the State! Change the constitution! Fire communist mailmen! Built a special prison!
The right-leaning media (Springer as a clear-cut Murdoch precursor) demagogued it (leading to an actual assassination attempt against a leading voice of the student movement), the Social Democrats were the ones that actually introduced the special laws.

[Aggie]

Luton or not, inbred small town or not, translated islam inherently violent or not.

My point still stands: We have a history of over 25 years of racist violence from neo-nazi groups, with hardly a response at all from official Sweden. Then, a confused person who most probably ought to be under psychiatric care blows himself up and tries to motivate his actions with islamist wordings. The response? Massive calls for more police, more surveillance, more data retention and increased powers to the police and military intelligence. The Social Democrats who went to election on, among other things, a promise to repeal the so-called "FRA Act", giving massive powers to police for electronic surveillance practically without any oversight, have now made a 180-degree turn and fully support it, as well as other even more draconian measures.

I feel rather disgusted, and it's not hard to start thinking about, say, the bombing of the Milano Central Station.

The point is well worth discussing.

My knee-jerk reaction is that it's a case of  Us vs. Them. 

It's relatively easy to view home-grown terrorists (in a country without ongoing civil struggles) as a nutjob minority even when they may represent a measurable if still tiny percentage of the population.  Even if the vast majority of Swedes find their racist policies repugnant, it's still a case of "Us but crazy idiots" and easy to reduce to a small problem in the imagination.

OTOH, where xenophobia can be applied to a terrorist act, I think "Them" easily dominates other aspects of an attack.  It lends itself to mass hysteria because there is a lot of Them out there in the whole wide world, even though "Them and crazy idiots" within any particular country may be a much smaller and much less overt proportion than "Us but crazy idiots".

I think the Western mind (certainly the North American one) has an immensely hard time with suicide bombers when framed in the usual context of giving up their lives to a higher cause.  Despite the usual term, I don't think most people really consider that these may be first and foremost acts of suicide.  For some reason it's immensely more understandable for someone to snap and go postal for personal reasons before turning the gun on themselves than to strap on a bomb to make a statement, even if the death tolls are similar.  Compare school shootings, to which there are, AFAIK, no prevention attempts made by domestic security organization, despite being very similar in scope to terrorist actions.

That's my attempt to explain; I do not consider any of the above to be a justification of what you are describing. 

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Us vs Them is indeed a factor but it is also capitalized by those with authoritarian leanings. In that context, while I'm not familiar with the German policies Swato mentions, in the States home-grown right-wing extremism is far less considered a threat, as opposed to something like say, eco-extremism. In other words, any movement or individual who is perceived as against the status quo will be swiftly dealt with (Julian Assange anyone?).

The workings of that status quo involve getting energy at all costs from different parts of the world, some resort to violence as a response to the frequent interventions, and I can assure you that the feelings of injustice and exploitation aren't limited to the Muslim world.

Certainly the evils of the world can't be ascribed to the West, but some evils have and some still are, and as long as that keeps going on some individuals will capitalize on those feelings.

OTOH, turning Christ's teachings of 'Love Thy Neighbour' into messages of hate and 'Give all your possessions to the poor and follow me' into 'Screw everyone you can and God will reward you', takes some real talent. 

Frankly I'm not convinced, while we may read Xtian philosophy in the Love Thy Neighbor, etc columns, the whole package has some pretty intolerant stuff, and has been systematically used in very intolerant and convenient ways (like indulgences) for hundreds of years.

[Darlica]

Only a short comment 'cause it's way past my bed time...

The bible is not the New Testament alone. The Old Testaments are pretty blood-chilling reading I'd say...
Also depending on which of evangelists books of The New Testament you are reading the levels of hatred and approval of violence differs.
The Bible isn't one book, it's a rather schizophrenic conglomerate of in a time line parallel stories. One can find justification for about anything using a bible quote.

[Sibling DavidH]

The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose. An evil soul producing holy witness Is like a villain with a smiling cheek.

It seems to apply equally to the Koran, allowing these sad kids to be radicalised.

[Swatopluk]

Enduring the Koran (audio version) also left me with the urge to strangle someone
I do not remember any parts that could directly be cited as justification for killing noncombatants though. And I remember anecdotes from the life of the prophet that are strictly against suicide by jihad in order to go to heaven. "Hey, we want to WIN this battle not just use it as a speedy ticket to the afterlife!". A believer should be willing to suffer for his faith but it's not mandatory and the Koran even includes a number of escape clauses that allow violations of the commandments under duress.
Btw, I doubt that the first generation of Christians would have approved of the excesses of the later martyr cult.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

... Btw, I doubt that the first generation of Christians would have approved of the excesses of the later martyr cult.

I dunno... I've read some of the scant histories* of the earliest periods, and there was often violence between the different brands.  The more focused on a single idea a brand was, the more likely they appeared to be to be willing to kill opposing brands.  There were hundreds, if not thousands of different brands by the time the bible was force-canonized in roughly 300 ACE.

I phrase it as forced, because there certainly was not a general consensus, nor even a plurality.  The canon was forced by violence from above, by men with power.   And anyone who did not comply was summarily slaughtered, and many were--refusing to give up their favored brand of 'christian' even on pain of death.

The early years of christianity was a very ugly time, and is founded on the blood and corpses of those who refused to play.

___________

* most histories were destroyed when Constantine force-"converted" his empire to his carefully engineered brand of "christian", shortly after the bible was canonized by his pet committee.

[Swatopluk]

I said 'first generation' without a final 's' deliberately. Personally I think it went downhill with Johannes the 4th evangelist (who some think had an unhealthy relationship with certain mushrooms on the island of Patmos). He really introduced anti-semitism into the new religion and also left us with that dreadfull terror porn called The Revelation. That was also the last piece that got introduced into the canon after a long fight since a lot of leading guys thought it to be simply heretic (if not simply weird).

[Aggie]

A 'little scroll' that the angel told him to put on his tongue?  Makes you wonder if Tim Leary managed to transcend time.

That book has caused way too much harm.