Nationalisation

[Griffin NoName]

This could be in Politics. Except it isn't Politics. It's Panic.

Bye, bye Bradford and Bingley. Another one bites the dust. It's just been "nationalised" - announced about an hour ago.

I never understood why building societies were allowed to become Banks. I was right.

I never understood why Polytechnics were allowed to become (New) Universities. I suspect I shall be proved right on that one too eventually.

Basically, I like Spades.

As for nationalisation. It alarms me that this is being applied to ex-building societies (I refuse to call them banks) rather than transport and utility companies etc. (which were de-nationalised). I'm not sure if this is more my filing cabinet approach to life, or ardent political belief, but we are in a right old muddle.

[Sibling Chatty]

It's the failure of the Reagan/Thatcher 'ideal' of a privatized EVERYTHING. They 'people' (what a quaint notion) are beginning to "get it" that Privatized is Wealthy Person Code for You take the risks, I take the benefits and we, the people aren't amused.

[beagle]

As for nationalisation. It alarms me that this is being applied to ex-building societies (I refuse to call them banks) rather than transport and utility companies etc. (which were de-nationalised). I'm not sure if this is more my filing cabinet approach to life, or ardent political belief, but we are in a right old muddle.

Utilities aren't so prone to bad sentiment as banks. Banks have the fundamental problem that their whole business model is based on not everybody asking for their money back at once. If it wasn't, only the richest would ever get loans, which is where we're heading for the next few years.

It's the failure of the Reagan/Thatcher 'ideal' of a privatized EVERYTHING.

It's also a failure of excess liquidity, excess government debt and government encouraged debt, and incompetent regulation.  Politicians also have a vested interest, a vested interest to keep the party going until at least the next election.

Don't know about the U.S. , but in the U.K. if house price inflation was included in the official figures then the BoE MPC would have strangled the housing boom at birth.

[Sibling Chatty]

See??

You can SAY the R word.

"Conservatives" (hahahaha, as if) HERE don't dare mention regulation, for fear of being ostracized or even accused of being "librul pinko commie faggot smelly hippies" by their peers.

You've not had a lot of exposure to the total asses out there insisting that this market problem is ALL because "the wrong people" were given house loans. No, it's that people were given THE WRONG house loans...interest only, ARMs, etc...all those fine products that WaMu pushed like their borrowers were junkies at a crackhouse.

("Wrong people" is ALWAYS code for "urban types" or "those people"--browner than a paper bag...but it includes ANY of the 'lesser' types, including the 'not Country Club' folks.)

[beagle]

As Griffin pointed out elsewhere we've got loads of micro-regulation. All adverts are plastered with "You could lose your house if you don't keep up payments", and we've got cooling-off periods to bypass pressure selling.

At the macroscopic level though interest rates take no account of house price inflation and the conservative Conservative press has been warning for years of the house price bubble. As with lift boys giving you share tips, one clue was when every other program on TV was "how to be a property developer".

[Sibling Chatty]

Yep, the 'home improvements' channels all had their "Flip That House" or similar shows, about leveraging a loan, fixing up the clunker you bought and making a MINT on it...except it didn't really work that way...the drywall was over dryrotted framing, the attic was full of bees, the "exquisite stained glass" was tempera on acrylic, and the plumber you hire NEVER shows...

Not to mention 15 years of infomercials on "how to make millions in Real Estate". Yeah...

And we're ALL of us above average, every one!!

Some times you just have to wonder about people's ability to THINK.

[Griffin NoName]

All adverts are plastered with "You could lose your house if you don't keep up payments", and we've got cooling-off periods to bypass pressure selling.

Some times you just have to wonder about people's ability to THINK.

"You could lose your house if you don't keep up payments" falls into the category "Do you really want to delete this" for which the most common resonse is to press yes automatically.

Perhaps mortgage adverts/documents with large pictures of homeless on the streets with "Do you really want to end up like this?" are needed. They seem to think this approach might work on cigarette packets which are about to sport some evil visual decorations.

A better solution, being discussed in another thread, would be to kill off the most stupid mortgage buyers and regain the level of intelligence of previous decades.

Whatever you do, don't blame the ex-building societies turned banks.

[Black Bart]

The banks/building societies can't afford to pay for new adverts so they are still churning out the ridiculous ones like the Halifax's singing and dancing ones...it's a bit like watching a musical about Bubonic Plague...you get Xtra Buboes with the Halifax though.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Banks have the fundamental problem that their whole business model is based on not everybody asking for their money back at once.

But shouldn't banks be regulated to have a significant percentage of deposits frozen?
Shouldn't they mainly use CDs money for their investment?
Are they supposed to take mortgage loans with no down payment (I got mine with 1-2% down)?
Are they supposed to give huge limits on credit cards (I could buy 3 cars with mine)?

They have been begging for this to happen, even responsible people has more credit than they should and who hasn't figured out how easy is to pile debt on a credit card (I could buy a new car with my credit card debt). How easy is for someone to lose his/her job and not be able to keep making his/her monthly payments?

If it wasn't, only the richest would ever get loans, which is where we're heading for the next few years.

That and micro loans but then again, big banks don't want $500 loans. Perhaps strict rules for consumer and mortgage credit should be issued, and separate banks that do institutional loans and the ones that do mortgage and consumer loans (one can dream...).

[Griffin NoName]

The banks/building societies can't afford to pay for new adverts so they are still churning out the ridiculous ones like the Halifax's singing and dancing ones...it's a bit like watching a musical about Bubonic Plague...you get Xtra Buboes with the Halifax though.

A Bradford and Bingley Ad. followed directly after a newsflash about them being nationalised. I decided the TV was picking up on my pyschosis. Or was it the other way round?

Banks have the fundamental problem that their whole business model is based on not everybody asking for their money back at once.

But shouldn't banks be regulated to have a significant percentage of deposits frozen?

Like sperm?

They have been begging for this to happen, even responsible people has more credit than they should and who hasn't figured out how easy is to pile debt on a credit card (I could buy a new car with my credit card debt).

I requested a low credit limit for the card I use exclusively for internet shopping. This was ignored. Neither could I then get them to reduce the limit they had given me. Let alone prevent them raising the limit as time went on. So even wailing wah wah wah wah! please don't give me credit does not work. You will have credit whether you want it or not seems to be the motto.

[Scriblerus the Philosophe]

"Conservatives" (hahahaha, as if) HERE don't dare mention regulation, for fear of being ostracized or even accused of being "librul pinko commie faggot smelly hippies" by their peers.

Or "Girlie men," if you happen to be Austrian and conservative (in as much as the Govenator is conservative).

That and micro loans but then again, big banks don't want $500 loans. Perhaps strict rules for consumer and mortgage credit should be issued, and separate banks that do institutional loans and the ones that do mortgage and consumer loans (one can dream...).

That would make far too much sense and therefore will never be done. Wish efficiency and sensibility weren't penalized.

[beagle]

Whatever you do, don't blame the ex-building societies turned banks.

Oh I'm all for blaming the banks. Of the UK ones I only had faith in Lloyds and HSBC, and now Lloyds has bought HBOS I'm down to one. Of the U.S. banks, probably only Wells Fargo (and I haven't checked their position recently...).

[Sibling Chatty]

Wells Fargo keeps looking at the "problem banks" and stepping back.

Didn't wan't WaMu, didn't want Wachovia...

They're probably going to allow the REST of the banking community to buy up the problem children, then continue to build on the fairly conservative lending practices.

Guess where I bank, even though I have NO credit, no credit cards, and no money? few people understand HOW fiscally conservative I am, or to what extent I'm willing to allow the 'speculators' to sit back and speculate on their losses.