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[Gloria The Camel]

Haha yeah but so many people don't take "eternal damnation" Seriously.

I haven't met many christians (and believe me, I've known MANY in my shrot life) that have ACTUALLY feared hell, of course they knew it was a bad place, but I haven't met any that are genuinly scared of it...So either they don't believe fully, or they have absolutely no doubt in their mind that they're going to Heaven...If I were religious i don't think I could have that much faith..I mean...there are a lot of sins to commit without knowing!

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

or they have absolutely no doubt in their mind that they're going to Heaven...

In which case they haven't read the book of revelation which clearly states that only 144.000 will enter the pearly gates.
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To be fair most Christians are less fundamentalist on their approach than the ones we hear about in the news, but even then it is common to find a "we're right, they're wrong and going to hell" attitude in a good number of people (Xtian or not).

[Scriblerus the Philosophe]

...or they have absolutely no doubt in their mind that they're going to Heaven...If I were religious i don't think I could have that much faith..I mean...there are a lot of sins to commit without knowing!

I find this less with Catholics, but a lot of Protestants are told that all they have to do is believe in Christ to go to heaven.

[Sibling Chatty]

Leaving aside all the fancy rhetorical stuff and figurative language, the Bible says that Hell is eternal separation from [the face of] God.

So if you're not a believer in that God, what's a little Hell? Separation from that in which one does not believe. Derrrr...

As to 144,000 or whatever...  Good ol' John on the Isle of Patmos went WAY beyond smokin' the good stuff. Owlsey's best couldn't come up with the kind of hallucinations he had...

And the more translations and 'authorized versions' you deal with, the worse it gets.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Leaving aside all the fancy rhetorical stuff and figurative language, the Bible says that Hell is eternal separation from [the face of] God.

What about god's shiny backside, like what happened to Moses on the mountain top?   

[Aggie]

As to 144,000 or whatever...  Good ol' John on the Isle of Patmos went WAY beyond smokin' the good stuff. Owlsey's best couldn't come up with the kind of hallucinations he had....

Ayuh, rumor has is it was a little scroll of blotter paper.... or perhaps Divine Methylenedioxymethamphetamine? 

Haha yeah but so many people don't take "eternal damnation" Seriously.

I haven't met many christians (and believe me, I've known MANY in my shrot life) that have ACTUALLY feared hell, of course they knew it was a bad place, but I haven't met any that are genuinly scared of it...So either they don't believe fully, or they have absolutely no doubt in their mind that they're going to Heaven...If I were religious i don't think I could have that much faith..I mean...there are a lot of sins to commit without knowing!

I think a worthwhile test for either theists or atheists to give themselves is as follows:

If you had absolute, concrete proof that God does/does not exist*, would you live your life any differently? 

Answering 'No' suggests to me you may not be living your life right in the first place, activities of faith such as prayer or attending church notwithstanding.



*whatever is opposite of your beliefs

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

If you had absolute, concrete proof that God does/does not exist*, would you live your life any differently? 

Answering 'No' suggests to me you may not be living your life right in the first place, activities of faith such as prayer or attending church notwithstanding.

Doesn't that cut both ways, though? Like those criminals who repent their ways in fear of the god they now acknowledge (or those who spouse the argument that without a deity there would be chaos due to the lack of fear in him/her/it)?

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Living or doing a certain thing, because of fear of punishment?  That's something a small child might be expected to do.

With an adult, I would expect a superior set of behavior skills.  That is, I'd expect the rules to be internalized, and followed not out of fear, but out of respect for doing the right thing.

Because it *is* the right thing.

God's presence or absence should make little or no difference to the outcome.

Someone who *only* "behaves" out of fear of reprisal is always on the look out for a loop-hole to jump through.  As such, can you *really* trust them to do the right thing always? 

Answer: no.