Toadfish Monastery

I want an iPod. But I don't want the restrictions of Apple. Any recommendations?

What are the restrictions of iPods? No radio?

I'm happy with my old Creative MP3 player but have just ordered a new phone to replace my ageing razr.  By plugging in a Microsd card that should be quite a nice MP3 player (but only up to 16GB, and obviously I can't vouch for it yet...). 

Quote from: Griffin NoName on January 26, 2010, 07:03:31 AM
I want an iPod. But I don't want the restrictions of Apple. Any recommendations?

An ipod classic, but use WinAmp (freeware) instead of itunes to load it with stuff.

I've never loaded itunes on my machine-- there's an extension for WinAmp that lets that program directly access ipods.  I can confirm the classic model works flawlessly.

Alternatively, you could opt for a Zune by microsquish-- but I've not had any luck hacking it-- installing "zuneware" is required. 

Finally, I've had excellent experiences with Sansa players-- but those are flash-based only, and max out at roughly 16gig.

I had a dell player for about a month-- it failed, sent it back, that one failed, sent it back, got credit instead.  I don't know who made them for dell, though...

In the early days of MP3's I had a Creative player-- that ancient thing used Compact Flash cards, but was quite limited.  It worked well enough for what it was, though.

Other alternative not contemplated before is to use an mp3 capable player, that is, one of those bookshelf systems capable of reading CDs (or in the best case DVDs) with mp3 files burned on them. While a CD can only give you 700 MB and a regular DVD-R 4.5 GB that is the equivalent of hundreds of songs in one disk. If you don't need mobility that could be an alternative, otherwise the regular recommendations apply (how much music do you have? Do you want/can plug it into your car? Do you need a charger and how often?, etc, etc).

In general terms: what are your needs?

Quote from: beagle on January 26, 2010, 07:17:13 AM
.......have just ordered a new phone to replace my ageing razr.

I've got a failry new razr which I love.



you mean this phone?........the red bit looks dangerous !

Quote from: beagle on January 26, 2010, 07:17:13 AM
What are the restrictions of iPods? No radio?

No, I don't need a radio capabillty.

Quote from: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on January 26, 2010, 07:01:54 PM
Other alternative not contemplated before is to use an mp3 capable player, that is, one of those bookshelf systems capable of reading CDs (or in the best case DVDs) with mp3 files burned on them.

I have one of those in another room. It's a Sony and has USB but has stupid Sony restrictions.

Quote from: Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith on January 26, 2010, 06:47:51 PM

Quote from: Griffin NoName on January 26, 2010, 07:03:31 AM
I want an iPod. But I don't want the restrictions of Apple. Any recommendations?

An ipod classic, but use WinAmp (freeware) instead of itunes to load it with stuff.

I've never loaded itunes on my machine-- there's an extension for WinAmp that lets that program directly access ipods.  I can confirm the classic model works flawlessly.

Quote from: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on January 26, 2010, 07:01:54 PM
In general terms: what are your needs?

I want a small thing like an iPod onto which I can download music. By iPod restrictions I meant I thought one was restricted to iTunes. I want to be free to download from wherever I want.

I don't know anything about WinAmp. Would it let me download non-iTunes stuff to an iPod ?

I don't know anything about any of this. What I want is a machine to hold digital music which I can get hold of, for example, by download from Amazon or wherever.

Are you familiar with USB thumb drives?

When you connect most small MP3 players, you simply copy your MP3 files (from wherever) into the drive-- Windoze "sees" it as a mass storage device.  About the only 'gotcha' is that some require the music to be placed into specific folder's (typically called, oddly enough^₁ "MUSIC")

As for iPods and WinAmp?  That's even easier:  you tell WinAmp where you music files are located on your network/pc.  Then, with the iPod connected, and WinAmp "seeing" it, you tell WinAmp to put your selected music onto the iPod.  The first time, it takes awhile, if you've several gigs of tunes.   Then, you can "synchronize" between WinAmp's list and what the iPod has-- that is, if you delete a tune from iPod 'in the field' WinAmp removes it from your library (but does not delete the actual file, unless you've specifically told it to) .

It's really easier to do than to describe.    The only real catch, is that the 'native' WinAmp has to have an iPod plug-in-- also available from their website, also free.

If you elect to go that route, I can post instructions.  That is, if I can find my iPod classic-- seems I've misplaced the darn thing again... *sigh*









_________

^₁  Oddly enough, because it's logical to put them there.  I find logic is rare in consumer goods...

Quote from: Griffin NoName on January 27, 2010, 04:05:22 AM

Quote from: beagle on January 26, 2010, 07:17:13 AM
.......have just ordered a new phone to replace my ageing razr.

I've got a failry new razr which I love.



you mean this phone?........the red bit looks dangerous !

Yep. I may be the only one over twenty owning one of these things.
It's aimed at the teenage texting/IM market, but because of that has a real keyboard and is a third of the price of the Motorola Milestone or Blackberries (which also have real keyboards).

I've got two five year old razrs, which I like a lot but predictive texting drives me mad, and I need the email and web stuff more now.

Griffin, WinAmp is a media player you can download for free, it can synchronize with and ipod or a creative mp3 player without having to install proprietary stuff. The other thing you haven't answered is how much music you have and/or want to carry on the player.

If you have little a small (and cheap) 4 GB player may be enough:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16855125127

If you have a large collection then a large hard drive version might be needed:
http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Zen-Vision-Portable-Player/dp/B000I5PGOM/ref=sr_1_47?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1264596835&sr=8-47

And as an alternative, if you have a Razr you should be able to get a 16 GB micro SD card and use it for music (I do that with my G1):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820157041

Quote from: Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith on January 27, 2010, 06:55:56 AM
Are you familiar with USB thumb drives?

When you connect most small MP3 players, you simply copy your MP3 files (from wherever) into the drive-- Windoze "sees" it as a mass storage device.  About the only 'gotcha' is that some require the music to be placed into specific folder's (typically called, oddly enough^₁ "MUSIC")

I second my original recommendation of a thumbdrive-type MP3 player.  Loads just like a USB thumbdrive, pure drag-and-drop.  The model I have doesn't care where you put the files, either.  I've got a cheap Nextar unit that is pretty good from a functional standpoint, although the controls are a little fiddly.  We used to have a very nice little Sansa* (Sandisk) unit that was very easy-to-use, took AA batteries and had a built-in FM tuner; not sure what happened to it.

Thumbdrives types have the added advantage of being cheap - you can probably pick one up for ten or twenty quid.


*Sansa doesn't make this particular model any more, but their current lineup looks pretty good, although less thumbdrive-ish and more device-ish.  Sandisk is primarily a memory-card company, so AFAIK they are less interested in mucking about with proprietary software and more interested in delivering a straightforward media-delivery system.  As of a few years ago, anyways.

Zono - I have a good size (cant remember exactly how much or where the darn thing is) SD card for my RAZR. One of the reasons I don't use it is the RAZR battery is notoriously poor - it runs down fast - and I cant be bothered to keep charging it. That may sound incredibly lazy but remember i have CFS and any activity is often just too much bother. The RAZR I have is a music one so I suppose I ought to have exploited that, but I haven't.

Can someone give me a simple answer to this.

Loads of people say the drawback to iPods is that one is tied into iTunes.  What you all seem to be saying is that this is not true. Why do people say it and exactly what do they mean by it.

?

Quote from: Griffin NoName on January 28, 2010, 02:01:23 AM
Zono - I have a good size (cant remember exactly how much or where the darn thing is) SD card for my RAZR. One of the reasons I don't use it is the RAZR battery is notoriously poor - it runs down fast - and I cant be bothered to keep charging it. That may sound incredibly lazy but remember i have CFS and any activity is often just too much bother. The RAZR I have is a music one so I suppose I ought to have exploited that, but I haven't.

Can someone give me a simple answer to this.

Loads of people say the drawback to iPods is that one is tied into iTunes.  What you all seem to be saying is that this is not true. Why do people say it and exactly what do they mean by it.

?

iTunes does not need to be installed to put non-DRM music onto iPods.  WinAmp and other software is easily able to do this, for free, and without all the headache that comes from iTunes.

Quote from: Griffin NoName on January 28, 2010, 02:01:23 AM
Can someone give me a simple answer to this.

Loads of people say the drawback to iPods is that one is tied into iTunes.  What you all seem to be saying is that this is not true. Why do people say it and exactly what do they mean by it.

?

Quote from: Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith on January 28, 2010, 02:33:03 AM
iTunes does not need to be installed to put non-DRM music onto iPods.  WinAmp and other software is easily able to do this, for free, and without all the headache that comes from iTunes.

what is non_DRM music?

If iTunes is installed does that then mean can't use anything else. ie install itunes, then cant put non-itunes music on it?

I am still not getting quite what people mean when they say about being tied to iTunes. Can someone spell that out.

Quote from: Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith on January 26, 2010, 06:47:51 PM
In the early days of MP3's I had a Creative player-- that ancient thing used Compact Flash cards, but was quite limited.  It worked well enough for what it was, though.

Diamond Rio here - 32MB built in, and added a 32MB card to it.  About the size of a cassette tape, and held about as many songs.

Quote from: Griffin NoName on January 28, 2010, 03:25:48 AM
what is non_DRM music?

If iTunes is installed does that then mean can't use anything else. ie install itunes, then cant put non-itunes music on it?

I am still not getting quite what people mean when they say about being tied to iTunes. Can someone spell that out.

DRM:  Digital Rights Management.  The song is tied to a specific pc/mac/player ONLY.  Limited use, limited number of times you may copy it, etc.  iTunes is rampant with this stuff, as is Zune.  Both iPods and Zune players fully comply with DRM'd music.

Anything you get from iTunes has DRM deeply embedded.  (it's not just a computer-hog taker-over-of-computers music manager-- it's a store, a way to spend your money-- a way of life^_tm  /sarcasm )   I'm told there are ways of making your mp3's "talk" but I don't know of any...

Contrast that with anything you rip off of your own CD's, (using ripping software, such as CDEX) or anything you purchase from Amazon-- is blessedly DRM-free.  You can do d!mn-all whatever you please with the files.

(can you tell, I'm not a huge fan of DRM?  I own exactly.... zero such files.  But, I *do* own all my MP3's-- I either ripped them myself from CD's I still physically possess (own), or I purchased them from Amazon.)

iTunes, when installed, (or so I'm told) starts scanning your PC for music-- whether you like it to or no.    At least with Zune, you can specify WHICH directories/folders it's allowed to play with... maybe the same with iTunes, I dunno.

But either one tries to Take Over The World-- (the same thing we do every night, Pinky...), and immediately claims that it's the ONLY mp3 player on your pc...

*bleah*

Some people do not mind that-- either one is somewhat slick at managing your music, and at locating updated stuff about those files... if you let it.  I was always afraid to let it-- no telling WHAT it might do...

I've spent weeks massaging the names and tags in my roughly 20 gigs of MP3's, and I'm not about to let some fool software trash all that work.  (I can glance at any random MP3 file of mine, and by it's name, tell who the artist is, what album it's from, what year it was released, the song's name and the position it appeared in the album.... as I said, I've spent weeks creating a System.  The internal tags are similarly adjusted to Just The Way I Like'em-- (last name first on all the artists, for example, so they sort properly.... ))

But.  You do NOT need iTunes-- you can make iPods work without it, and work just fine.

You DO need Zune if you want a Zune player--- I've tried hacking them, and not had any luck.

Between the two, I prefer the Zune's menu system to the iPod's.  The Zune's is cleaner and simpler to quickly create a series of album-playlists.  On the iPod, it takes several additional steps per album, but it can be done-- unfortunately, the stupid iPod insists on creating a NEW playlist each and every time, so you have to periodically go in and delete out all the temp playlists....  the Zune will re-use the same one, if asked.

The iPod's slimmer, but it's a newer design than the Zune (my Zune's an older 30gig, what I purchased on clearance).  They both weigh about the same, and have similar battery life.

Both have color screens, and display album art, if your files contain it (or if the album folder contained a JPG file when you loaded the album).

I think the Zune has a radio-- but I never use it, and I'm not 100% sure about that.  I know the iPod does not-- this way CrApple can sell you yet ANOTHER accessory to attach to the bottom of the thing...

Zune accessories are far and few-- very difficult to find.

iPod accessories can be had in WalMart or your local Drug Store/Chemists'.   In fact, you cannot set off a firecracker in a modern small electronics section in any given shop, without hitting at least one iPod accessory...

Both work fine with standard small headphones, both have a 1/8" stereo jack somewhere on the case.

Both have internal rechargeable batteries, and neither is (supposedly) user-replaceable.  But there are numerous websites telling you exactly how to do it, when the battery eventually dies.

My Zune came with a buncha extra goodies:  an arm-band/case, a delux earbud, a charging cable, a few other oddments.

My iPod came with two:  a cheap-sounding (but white) headset, and a white charging cable. 

For either, the charging is done via a switched-on computer's USB bus...!  Go figure.

But for either, there's available (extra charge) wall-mains chargers, as well as car chargers, but again, the Zune's are hard to find, but the iPod's are often hanging from the end-displays at your local green grocer's...

The thing with itunes is that is the only approved conduit for and ipod, that said you can use other programs for that but apple is known for making changes to the firmware of their devices so they only talk to itunes. The general solution is to NEVER install itunes, but it is still a hassle.

Personally I wouldn't buy neither an ipod or a zune, and much rather go with a sandisk Samsa or a Creative.