Respect for the Aged

[Alpaca]

"Another Modest Proposal?"

[jjj]

If we ever aim to create a better society, re-establishing the respect towards our elders will certainly rank supreme on the priority list...because it's one of the most fundamental rules of a progressive society.
I don't think I underestimate our cultural status by labeling it 'regressive', due to high crime-, drug-, suicide-, divorce- rates etc.
Also it appears that our increasing materialistic ambitions have a dehumanizing effect on society. Many people mishandle wealth. Greed and envy seems to get the better of them..

[Alpaca]

Sure, if society is to be better, elders ought to be respected. But so ought younger people. And so ought people the same age. So ought all human beings, I think. In order to create a better society, we need to establish a general level of mutual respect throughout all humankind.

[Griffin NoName]

Well, I just heard on the radio that millionaires have to be messed up psychologically to become millionaires

[Alpaca]

Well, I just heard on the radio that millionaires have to be messed up psychologically to become millionaires

Perhaps. Or perhaps the system that facilitates them becoming millionaires is messed up.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

It makes perfect sense. In fact I am sure that the same kind of study would find that politicians are psychologically messed up too. Although, now that I think about it most politicians are millionaires...

[ivor]

Well, I just heard on the radio that millionaires have to be messed up psychologically to become millionaires

Why am I not a millionaire then? 

No one expecting respect from me is going to get it.  Demanding it for any reason takes my respect away.  I don't go around demanding respect from any one as it goes against Toadfish humble nature.  That will be the case for me no matter how old I get.

[Opsa]

If we ever aim to create a better society, re-establishing the respect towards our elders will certainly rank supreme on the priority list...because it's one of the most fundamental rules of a progressive society.

Supreme?

There are a couple of problems I am having with this. The first one is that here in the Toadfish Monastery we all have agreed to try to respect one another in a mutual fashion. Anyone able to at least try to do this consistantly is welcome here.

Mutual respect means that I will not hold your opinion above or below  my own. I will not expect you to bow to me nor have you ask me to bow to you. We need not agree on everything, but we can talk together best as equals. This is fundamental in this forum. Please keep this in mind.

The other thing that bugs me is that you have mentioned your age jjj, and now you seem to be demanding respect for elders. It appears that you are demanding respect for yourself. I do not wish to upset you, but that attitude is not what I would call humble.

Would you care to address this?

[jjj]

Sure, if society is to be better, elders ought to be respected. But so ought younger people. And so ought people the same age. So ought all human beings, I think. In order to create a better society, we need to establish a general level of mutual respect throughout all humankind.

Yes... that's the way and the only way!

Well, I just heard on the radio that millionaires have to be messed up psychologically to become millionaires.

Seems to be a good radio station... telling the truth for a change!

Back to work...
I wrote :

If we ever aim to create a better society, re-establishing the respect towards our elders will certainly rank supreme on the priority list...because it's one of the most fundamental rules of a progressive society.

...and received the following objection:

The other thing that bugs me is that you have mentioned your age jjj, and now you seem to be demanding respect for elders. It appears that you are demanding respect for yourself. I do not wish to upset you, but that attitude is not what I would call humble.

You are right, taken in this context it can easily be understood this way. Yet, the truth is that I didn't think of it this way. All I really tried to point out is that the philosophical insight of elders is of paramount importance to young people, because the elders are the ones having had a chance to acquire wisdom. Without their help young people rely on acquiring the same merely the 'hard way'. In other words, the transfer of insight from elders to young people considerably accelerates human evolution!
That's why it's so vital. Hence, it has really nothing to do with my age and personal demands for respect. But I thank you for highlighting a possible connection. I'm new here and so, I more than welcome these sorts of queries. It helps us to get to know each other. So, dear brothers please rest assured that all my intentions are purely benevolent and don't hesitate to demand clarification if my messages get 'fluffy', for my communication skills still require lots of amendments... to get along with you all! Last, not least... a big mea culpa for committing any unintentional offense. As you see, I'm prepared to even excuse myself for 'putting my foot under yours', while you step onto my foot!  Is there anything more I can do? It's almost impossible to foresee all potential negatives of once statements/postings, because in that moment I was focused on totally different thoughts, than anything else... damn it!
I appreciate the presence of good will/ intentions, solidarity and the progressive spirit in this forum. The personal problem I still have is my flawed style communication/ tone and I may I supplicate your help in this matter?
I guess this more a cosmetic problem, but since it can be irritating in the long run, I welcome your frank suggestions. Personally I am very happy with the way you all respond. I promise to take advice (no offense) to my best ability and so, improve my communication skills at the same time. In case my contributions become unbearable or for reason beyond my control (such as Alzheimer's gets me), just let me know and I take my tablets... or bow out in time gracefully, humbled & crumbled.  How about that?
And since I'm at it, I should also mention that the other problem I had in other fora was that I never got really upset about anything and that tends to infuriate others even more... So, I suggest if my tone offends you in any form, please let me know. I shouldn't be too hard to clarify my position as my intentions are truly all throughout positive. Consequently, any negative speculations one might be able  to conclude/ ponder from that can only be coincidental or fictitious...

[The Meromorph]

Here's some simple factual feedback, given in understanding that you are working here in a language not a native tongue of yours, that you seem to write very eloquently, but that this  itself may hide the lack of idiomatic sensibilities that a native speaker learns without knowing they learn.
When you use terms like 'supreme priority' and 'paramount importance', you may be thinking that this is only emphasis, or even only heavy emphasis. It is actually interpreted by the rest of us as 'the heaviest possible emphasis'.  For example.

the respect towards our elders will certainly rank supreme on the priority list

would explicitly state that you considered that more important than, say, preventing child abuse, to the degree that you would be prepared to accept child abuse occurring, if by that, you could achieve respect for elders. You can see that your statement might be misinterpreted by those who read it.
"We do not communicate what we write, but what others read in what we write."
In addition, in English, such terms are commonly use by extremist groups, so that the frequent and repeated use of such 'emphasis' by yourself, particularly when combined with some of the proposals you seem to be making, strongly implies that you yourself hold 'extremist views'.
I hope this helps. 

[Opsa]

And may I add that your ability not to get upset is a very good skill? 

That trait alone makes me feel like you really do want to communicate. I admire it very much.



PS: Since we are a monastery of mixed gender, we use the term "sibling" for eachother, as opposed to the more traditional Brothers or Sisters. Hope that helps.

[Bruder Cuzzen]

Hi jj !,

I wuz was just wondering ( no offense of course )...What is your definition of humility ?

And also would you mind giving me some examples ?
Oh ...and could I have two or three in the form of anecdotes ?

Thanks , BC

[jjj]

...your statement might be misinterpreted by those who read it.
"We do not communicate what we write, but what others read in what we write." In addition, in English, such terms are commonly use by extremist groups, so that the frequent and repeated use of such 'emphasis' by yourself, particularly when combined with some of the proposals you seem to be making, strongly implies that you yourself hold 'extremist views'.

Thank you for that. Yes, it takes a lifetime to learn the subtle bits of a language. So, please correct me, when my German-English gets off the rails. Now I just juggle with it as good I can.
Yet, I think the even bigger problem is that I'm new to this forum (teething problems). Once we get to know each other a lot of these kinds of problems will dissipate... like an 'extremely nasty' smell. 

That trait alone makes me feel like you really do want to communicate

Thx ,  for the flowers...
What is your definition of humility?
Origin: ...invented by monks with lots of time and little money on hand. Now let's see... yes, German monks used it too: 'Beschi'... (wrong) 'Bescheidenheit' (right). It's a pretty ordinary word with lots of extraordinary meanings.  Examples:
In Rom: "He was filled with humility at the sight of the Pope" 
In Calcutta: I heard Mother Theresa suffered from/ enjoyed humility...
As cocktail: Humility is God's Wisdom and Love in perfect balance as Compassion.
In philosophical fora: Humility doesn't allow you to mention your achievements or you'll be branded 'assuming/ arrogant'. I.e. albeit you won't be able to prove/ back up your statements with gained, working philosophical insight, you are allowed to discuss hypothetical  theories, fictions... ( and humility ) without humiliating anyone.

[Bruder Cuzzen]

Hi jj , After reading that i still don't know what humility is . 

I must apologize jj , I just realized that I didn't phrase my querie correctly , since I am  familiar with your posting style I should know better , I think I may have " booby trapped "you accidentally .

Anyway, allow me to try it again ( a shame I don't know German enough to use those unique German words that can convey precisely the content of a sentence or an entire paragraph , it would be useful here ).

!. How does your German dictionary define humility ?

2. Do you agree ?

3. If no , why not?

4. When is pride a good thing? and when is it not ?

5.Is modesty the same as humility ?

6 Do you think it better to be modest than anything else ? Why or why not ?

7.  Could you give me a negative example of prideful use and a positive  example ?

8. Does prideful boasting offend you in any way ? Why or why not?

9 Is boasting the same as pride ?

Please take your time , by the way we have extra smileys ,when you click the (more) at the top right just above the posting  box . They may be of good use to you , regards BC.

[jjj]

 How does your German dictionary define humility ?
A:  Same as English ones... All depends how and when it's applied.
2. Do you agree ?  A: n/a

3. If no , why not? A: n/a

4. When is pride a good thing? and when is it not ?
A: When it's founded on substance it's a good thing. For envious people it's poison!

5.Is modesty the same as humility ? A: All depends how and when it's applied.

6 Do you think it better to be modest than anything else ? Why or why not ?
A: Modesty in wanting to achieve less than contentment, e.g., is bad!

7.  Could you give me a negative example of prideful use and a positive example ?
A: When it's unfounded! // When it's founded on substance!
Does prideful boasting offend you in any way ? Why or why not?
It's unfounded or meaningless. If it's backed up it doesn't offend me; it rather encourages me (...see Liberace, the super-arrogant show off!)
9 Is boasting the same as pride ?
Unsubstantiated boasting stinks! // Substantiated pride is warranted!