God vs. Creator

[Aggie]

Just looking for some opinions on this....   should the Creator of the universe automatically be accorded the status of a/the God, even if he or she did nothing other than initiate the process?



Yes, I'm going somewhere with this. 

[Bluenose]

Well, I would say no.  After all, it may well be that "Roundworld" really was created by the wizards in the Unseen University and no one in their right mind would confuse them with gods.  On a slightly related note, there are some physicists who speculate that we may at some point in time be able to create a new universe in a lab, a sort of "child universe".  As I imperfectly (I admit) understand it, the possibility is suggested by some aspects of M-Theory.  It is debatable whether it would be possible to pass information to and or from such a universe, but whether or not, I do not think it would be appropriate to assign the label "God" to professor somebody-or-other, or worse, to a bunch of unruly students!

[Sibling Lambicus the Toluous]

Just looking for some opinions on this....   should the Creator of the universe automatically be accorded the status of a/the God, even if he or she did nothing other than initiate the process?

If the "Creator" is a conscious entitly, then probably yes.

However, I believe in practical terms, there are many religions where the Creator, while still considered a god is something distant, unreachable and unknowable, and it is lesser, closer, more "active" and more personal gods that are the focus of the religion.

[Aggie]

On a slightly related note, there are some physicists who speculate that we may at some point in time be able to create a new universe in a lab, a sort of "child universe". 

Heh, busted on the first reply!  Here's some further reading on it....
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg19125591.500&print=true

So, being Creator apparently doesn't mean much (especially if no further information can be passed between our universe and the "child" universe).  I'm not sure if it's plausible that our Universe was created by a similar process, but it would seem to be so. 

What I find particularily interesting about the possibility of creating baby universes is that intelligent life forms may be capable of acting as the reproductive equipment of a universe.  This raises the question of whether any information is imparted on the "child" by the parent universe - i.e. would the the same physical laws and values for the fundamental constants necessary for the existence of life in this universe be present in the created universe? 

[Sibling Qwertyuiopasd]

to me even though Creator might not be a God (requiring immortality), it does require more than "oh look, I slipped, bumped some electrons, and created a universe" (or varying levels of intention). someone can start a universe, someone can intiate a universe, but very few can actively and spontaneously create things. (i.e. native americanesque creator or Prometheus or Epimethius type character)

a 'Creator" is someone who creates.

a... whatever you wanna call it, initiater, starter, big-bangee (sounded better than big-banger even though it's incorrect) simply started a universe at one point in time. Assuming we're working on a linear path.

a God or Deity is someone who often has creation powers, but not always. A Deity is immortal, or nigh immortal (technically killable, but harder to kill than say, Tolkien elves) being who is in charge of a plane or planet, or in charge of a certain aspect of that plane or planet.

Good day.

~Qwerty

[Griffin NoName]

Create a universe in a jar. Communicate with a universe in a jar. They are probably two a penny somewhere. And probably so are their creators. How many gods does that make?

None of that solves infinity.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Apart from theoretical/laboratory physics, is notable that fundamentalists equate G-d with the creator, which I believe is a misinterpretation of the original intention: whomever this god person is, he has so much power that all the stuff you see was placed there by him. Fear him!

[The Meromorph]

Y'all need to complete y'alls Pratchett reading... "Strata" would take this conversation in a whole new direction... 

[Aggie]

Y'all need to complete y'alls Pratchett reading... "Strata" would take this conversation in a whole new direction... 

On hold and to be picked up soon  
Probably tackling too many (of my) though-paths in one thread, anyways....

Apart from theoretical/laboratory physics, is notable that fundamentalists equate G-d with the creator, which I believe is a misinterpretation of the original intention: whomever this god person is, he has so much power that all the stuff you see was placed there by him. Fear him!

Yup, the possibility that once the practical aspect are figured out (if they ever are), ANYone could press the big red GO button kind of blows the arguement that God exists because someone must have had the power to create the universe right out of the water.  Not that it was ever a very good stand-alone arguement....

None of that solves infinity.

Ayuh.  Even considering the universe as a system that inherrantly holds the means to reproduce, there still needs to have been a starting point.  A book I'm reading which discusses possible origins of life references a theory of "garbage-bag life" -  the initial spontaneous existence of mostly empty membrane spheres with random chemical components enclosed, a certain subset of which will by chance contain catalysts allowing for crude reproduction and providing a toehold for (non-genetic) evolutionary processes.    If 'spontaneous' universes do arise, with a range in the values for the fundamental constants, then a certain subset of these universes should allow for the evolution of intelligent life, and therefore the creation of baby universes in the lab is (assumed to be) possible in these universes.

Assuming that spontaneous universe formation occurs less commonly than the ability for intelligent life to create baby universes within a life-bearing universe AND that 'reproductive' universes give rise to baby universes with similar physical laws, it may be plausible that the majority of existing universes are similar to our own.

[Sibling Chatty]

Y'all need to complete y'alls Pratchett reading... "Strata" would take this conversation in a whole new direction... 

So would Truckers, Diggers and Wings. Not as relevant, certainly, but different.

I really enjoyed Strata, and not just for the genesis of Discworld stuff. Creation to order. They just needed a Slartibartfast.

[Bluenose]

Ah, Slartibartfast,

Now there's frood who really knows where his towel is...