General question to all siblings...

[Kiyoodle the Gambrinous]

The trouble is, everyone seems intent upon talking about how great a man John Lennon was (and how clever they are in recognising it), instead of listening to what he had to say.

Rumble...

I've never really considered Lennon a great man (probably because he was long dead when I was born), found out about some things he said much later in my life. I still have a lot to learn about him anyway.

I like him as a anti-war activist, don't agree with him on a few things, but all in all, he made some good statements... (and as far as I know, he had a good sence of humour)

[Opsa]

He pissed a lot of people off, too. Several times. Especally with that song. But it endures as one of his best.

What it says to me is not to dwell on any imagined glory to come. Imagine here and now as a better place, and work toward that. It's more tangible.

We were talking somewhere in here (and I've lost the conversation) about whether or not some people think that believing in Jesus and believing in God are the exactly same thing. I know that orthodox Catholics (among others) think so. This is something that stumps my poor little UU-brought-up mind. When I say I don't worship Jesus they interpret that as I don't believe in God. That is not quite true. I maintain a dialogue with The Great Everything (or I guess it's more of a monologue, since TGE doesn't talk back in words) and I do believe that there was a person known as Jesus who was able to help people by communicating some very inspired ideas about TGE. So am I stilll considered an atheist in the minds of literal Christians?

[beagle]

Unfortunately the official imperial archives didn't survive (and some Christians had a hand in that).

This was the sarcy comment from TDAFOTRE I was struggling to remember:

"During the age of Christ, of his apostles, and of their first disciples, the doctrine which they preached was confirmed by innumerable prodigies. The lame walked, the blind saw, the sick were healed, the dead were raised, dæmons were expelled, and the laws of Nature were frequently suspended for the benefit of the church. But the sages of Greece and Rome turned aside from the awful spectacle, and, pursuing the ordinary occupations of life and study, appeared unconscious of any alterations in the moral or physical government of the world. Under the reign of Tiberius, the whole earth, or at least a celebrated province of the Roman empire, was involved in a preternatural darkness of three hours. Even this miraculous event, which ought to have excited the wonder, the curiosity, and the devotion of mankind, passed without notice in an age of science and history. It happened during the lifetime of Seneca and the elder Pliny, who must have experienced the immediate effects, or received the earliest intelligence, of the prodigy. Each of these philosophers, in a laborious work, has recorded all the great phenomena of Nature, earthquakes, meteors comets, and eclipses, which his indefatigable curiosity could collect. Both the one and the other have omitted to mention the greatest phenomenon to which the mortal eye has been witness since the creation of the globe."

...and I do believe that there was a person known as Jesus who was able to help people by communicating some very inspired ideas about TGE. So am I stilll considered an atheist in the minds of literal Christians?

You could probably still be in the Church of England up to the level of Archbishop of York, but Canterbury might be pushing it, IMHO.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

I maintain a dialogue with The Great Everything (or I guess it's more of a monologue, since TGE doesn't talk back in words) and I do believe that there was a person known as Jesus who was able to help people by communicating some very inspired ideas about TGE. So am I stilll considered an atheist in the minds of literal Christians?

That would make you an heretic and a blasphemer, not sure if atheist with the exception of the most fundamentalists, though.

Both the one and the other have omitted to mention the greatest phenomenon to which the mortal eye has been witness since the creation of the globe."

That is assuming that the dogma is right and Jesus was indeed surrounded by supernatural portents. The most likely case is that he was one of many apocalyptic preachers of the time, or (what I currently believe) that what we call Jesus is a composite of those individuals.

[Griffin NoName]

Surely one cannot be a blasphemer AND an atheist?

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

As if that changed the circle of hell we are going. 

[Opsa]

Imagine there's no Hell
It's easy if you try
No threats for thinking
No future fry...

[Sibling Chatty]

As the closest thing here to a traditional Christian...

Hell, NOT Gehenna, but Hell...is eternal separation from the Face of God. if you don't believe in God, that really shouldn't bother you much, right? How do you go to a Hell you don't believe in?

The great thing about the Great Unknown is that it's Unknown. No matter who tells you they KNOW, because Their Bible Says So...what their Bible says is a bunch of liberally mistranslated hearsay, speculation and projection.

Next person that hits you with the Hell thing, ask if they're Pre-Millenialist  Post-Millenialist or Om-Millenialist. then ask why. By the time they've dredged their brain for a few hours to answer that, you can be MILES away.

[Bruder Cuzzen]

Next person that hits you with the Hell thing, ask if they're Pre-Millenialist  Post-Millenialist or Om-Millenialist. then ask why. By the time they've dredged their brain for a few hours to answer that, you can be MILES away.

[Darlica]

As the closest thing here to a traditional Christian...

Hell, NOT Gehenna, but Hell...is eternal separation from the Face of God. if you don't believe in God, that really shouldn't bother you much, right? How do you go to a Hell you don't believe in?

The great thing about the Great Unknown is that it's Unknown. No matter who tells you they KNOW, because Their Bible Says So...what their Bible says is a bunch of liberally mistranslated hearsay, speculation and projection.

Next person that hits you with the Hell thing, ask if they're Pre-Millenialist  Post-Millenialist or Om-Millenialist. then ask why. By the time they've dredged their brain for a few hours to answer that, you can be MILES away.

I think I love you...

[Opsa]

What bugs me is that I DO believe in God, I just don't use the same terminology as some (usually the ones most likely to condemn me to eternal damnation). What seems to me to be a mere technicality, as in speaking a different language to describe the same thing, seems to some others to be an unforgivable sin. Is it a hopeless case- or is there a way I might be able to communicate this to them without offense?

[Swatopluk]

I just say Chinese Rites Controversy

[Aggie]

I'm sorry, I'm having a fit of the giggles here....  I'd not heard the term 'Papal bull' before... 

                     


Sorry, that was most untaddy of me.

[Swatopluk]

I hear the papal decree to ban bullfighting (published everywhere except in Spain) is know as The Last Bull in Britain

[Sibling Qwertyuiopasd]

Opsa, just say... what was it?

"When I say I don't worship Jesus they interpret that as I don't believe in God. That is not quite true. I maintain a dialogue with The Great Everything (or I guess it's more of a monologue, since TGE doesn't talk back in words) and I do believe that there was a person known as Jesus who was able to help people by communicating some very inspired ideas about TGE."

or something along those lines. maybe type something up in either paragraph or just notes format, just to organize what you'd say, if you had to/wanted to explain your beliefs.

trust me. it can be no harder than the elevator speech.

~Qwerty