Are you afraid of dying?

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

  sorry 
The problems with central information... on one hand it makes perfect sense that your history file remain on a central repository available for any healthcare provider in case of necessity/emergency, but who else has access to such information, how can it be immediately accessed by an emergency room and impossible to get by anyone else? With the desire to profile prospect employees (or just certain citizens by government agencies) how long will it take to get that information into the wild? If some banks had *accidentally* released private information (and they are supposed to be all about security) how long until medical information is hacked or improperly disclosed, (and checking some companies techniques _{*cough*hp*cough*}, how long for them to pay for such information in the black market)?

Like electronic voting, it is one of those ideas that sounds great off paper but previous elections show that it should remain on paper.

Now on topic...

Kat

Without any intention of judgment, I haven't until now met anyone that -barring assisted suicide- sees a friend or relative's suicide as an honorable exit (may be is just ignorance on my part  ). I have a japanese friend who confronted with the question said that under certain circumstances would consider it as an honorable option for herself. My take is that they may take someone else's suicide stoically, understanding the reasons but quite likely as we say in spanish 'the procession goes on the inside'.

Perhaps to further clarify my position I would say that I see suicide (again barring assisted suicide) as abortion: It is an individual right but one that I much rather see infrequently exercised.

[Swatopluk]

Fortunately we are beyond suicide as a capital crime punishable by death. It always sounded like "if you botch it, the experts will help you, want it or not".

Concerning the car method, I doubt that the insurance would pay. I believe many have an explicit clause concerning this very matter.

[ivor]

There are clauses in insurance for suicide.  Your life insurance won't pay if you die sky diving and such.  As for the car method just make sure you leave forty feet of skid marks at the end so it doesn't look like you intended to buy the farm.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

That reminds me one insurance rep trying to sell life insurance saying enthusiastically "...and it covers suicide after one year!". I asked him if I sounded suicidal and I could *see* his cheeks go red through the phone. 

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

That reminds me one insurance rep trying to sell life insurance saying enthusiastically "...and it covers suicide after one year!". I asked him if I sounded suicidal and I could *see* his cheeks go red through the phone. 

That is too-- funny!  I love it!

xxxxxxxxx

As for the skid-marks, that is a very good idea.  I could leave them INITIALLY, by a sudden stop-short of the edge.  Then, reverse-course, and-- after all, the POINT is that driving the car off the cliff is a once-in-a-lifetime experience ...

[Griffin NoName]

sorry 
The problems with central information... ...
<snip>
... how long until medical information is hacked or improperly disclosed,
<snip>
.......Without any intention of judgment, I haven't until now met anyone that -barring assisted suicide- sees a friend or relative's suicide as an honorable exit (may be is just ignorance on my part  ).

Fortunately we are beyond suicide as a capital crime punishable by death. It always sounded like "if you botch it, the experts will help you, want it or not".

The "topic" was being afraid of dying and we've drifted away from it all over the place. I suppose technically we/I should have hiked mental health, suicide and disclosure of info off into other threads. Anyone want to do that (I'm happy drifting...but have no objection to others preferring not to drift...). 

Regarding time and medical repositories being hacked, about 5 minutes. But theft of information happens just as easily via the paper trail - witness UK bank just having discarded account details unshredded. Every good anti-hacking book includes a section on paper.

Regarding honourable exits, most people I know who have been through our mental health services see suicide as a reasonable option for themselves and others. Maybe those I know are peculiar, but it's consistent with every new person I meet via this route. That doesn't mean they aren't shocked or sad when someone goes that way or that they don't try to prevent it. I've been on wards where people who are attempting suicide themselves (actively) have saved someone else by notifying a nurse of an attempt (yes, it's usually other patients that know before the staff do....).

IMO suicide is usually misunderstood and that's what causes family and friends the most grief.

I'm glad it's no longer a capital crime in the UK but isn't it time we updated the honour of falling on one's sword to modern equivalents? 

[Swatopluk]

That would require the failed leaders being honorable men. The mute with the silk string looks more appropriate. Or maybe crucifying for those that sell their crap as G*d's will

Now we are drifting towards capital punishment.

I think suicide is still covered by the "afraid of dying" theme.

[Griffin NoName]

Purely to stop the topic drift, the media reports of Saddam's hanging indicated he was not afraid of dying. Of course, they are merely media reports.

People who commit suicide in my experience are not afraid of dying but living. It's the people who are distraught over someone having done so who fear dying. Maybe. Seems to make sense to me. Well, at least it's on topic.

[Outis the Unready]

How strange everyone links suicide and fear!

I can think of tons of modern, living, cultures where suicide has no fear associated.

Oh my gods, I just used my anthropology degree for the first time ever. Worst money I ever spent.

(It was a second BA. I have since met no one who has one who doesn't in some form regret it.)

[Swatopluk]

Maybe we should make a distinction between death and dying. The first troubles fewer people than the latter. Many don't fear to be dead but too long a way to reach that.
More than one suicide doesn't happen because the person in question doubts the effectiveness of his/her means to ensure it to be fast and painless (apart from those, whose suicide attempts are actually calls for help).

[Outis the Unready]

Maybe we should make a distinction between death and dying. The first troubles fewer people than the latter. Many don't fear to be dead but too long a way to reach that.
More than one suicide doesn't happen because the person in question doubts the effectiveness of his/her means to ensure it to be fast and painless (apart from those, whose suicide attempts are actually calls for help).

I once was called a big meanie because when a man of sound mind complained that assisted suicide wasn't available to him, I pointed out that there was nothing a doctor could do that he could not if he sincerely wished to do so.

This was in response to the claim that it was not laziness that made him need a doctor... because, apparently, doctors have magic powers to kill people we all lack.

I actually encouraged a suicidal teenager to go into some form of medicine because she could kill herself efficiently that way. She's now a psychiatric nurse.

It takes a pretty big level of dedication to have the skills to kill oneself painlessly. Dedication that can range from establishing underworld contacts to becoming a doctor.

In my experience, the ones who go that far to do it are very dedicated to offing themselves, but the vast majority of them, after being dedicated to something, find killing themselves less important once they get there.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

In my experience, the ones who go that far to do it are very dedicated to offing themselves, but the vast majority of them, after being dedicated to something, find killing themselves less important once they get there.

Which reminds me of one of the few just reasons why Religion exists (in my opinion anyway): to provide a great many people with a reason to get out of bed each day.

It seems to be much easier to dedicate one's self to an ethereal or non-corporeal cause than one that is based on things.  Moreover, that is often a cause that can never be fully satisfied, ensuring the dedicatee an endless set of goals to pursue.

That many folk dedicate themselves to "secular" causes like medicine (another endless task) world hunger (yet another) or even the Study of The Universe (so far: this seems to be endless as well, both of magnitude and in depth/minute-ness).

I really think that it's the poor slob that has nothing but himself to care for who gets really depressed about living.  As Outis pointed out, sometimes all you need to do is point someone in a direction and press "go".    They'll find their way ...

[ivor]

I think religion came about from death.  I think someone got the bright idea to make up a "happy ending" to the story of Grandpa's death.  Something like a parent would tell a child to make them feel better about Grandpa kicking the bucket.  The story got better and better from there.  Don't most religions deal with what happens after you die? Then the stories move on to where you went and what you did to get there? 

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

I think religion came about from death.  I think someone got the bright idea to make up a "happy ending" to the story of Grandpa's death.  Something like a parent would tell a child to make them feel better about Grandpa kicking the bucket.  The story got better and better from there.  Don't most religions deal with what happens after you die? Then the stories move on to where you went and what you did to get there? 

I think that regardless of weather or not God or Gods exist, that your observation is a very valid one.

Even if there ARE God/Gods, as humans culture and language abilities evolved[from the very primitive proto-humans], so did their explanations of the world around them.

For are not explanations but a key to better understanding?

That religion was born out of grief makes a great deal of sense, as religion has much to say about grief.

Something that science does not deal with well (or at all, actually).

[Bruder Cuzzen]

 I must say no to that question . I am afraid of dying in vain , of  great pain before the release of my spirit but death is a part of life after all .

I say we live forever... in the faces of our children , in the memories of those who love us and in those that will never forget a kindness great or small .

I remember the pastor that my sis sicced on me , the poor man was stuck in the mire of his self righteousness and laughed at me for telling him the truth , that death did not hold me in thrall .
Called me a liar without saying so . Maybe now that he is approaching sixty he has hopefully learned a thing or two about people .

Not to be misunderstood , I love life and all the wondrous denizens of this planet , it is soooo beautiful and curious . I will indeed miss this good earth and grieve at what insecurity and greed has done /is being done to it .

We can hurt Gaia , we can wipe out her children but Gaia will go on until our blue skies are no more , I vote later rather than sooner .

Thankfully the world has the toadfishmonastery , I have a hope that was lost so long ago .

This place and all you lovely folks have even healed the scar on my heart that I thought would never heal . ( I lost my soul mate some time ago and was a zombie on/off for 15 years ) . All is good with the world again.