Limits of religious tolerance thread

[Griffin NoName]

Interestingly, if a person co-opts someone else's coat of arms, it could technically backfire: a coat of arms as a mark on an object indicates ownership, and it could be argued that when a person prominently displays a coat of arms in their house, they are declaring that the house belongs to the owner of the coat of arms, or that person's heirs (which would likely not include the homeowner, especially if he or she happened to pick the arms of a non-relative who only happened to share the same name).

I display an armful of coats in my home.

[Outis the Unready]

...
FYI, this is one reason some UEWwies often sport the five-petaled rose with pentagram, as seen at http://www.vircle.org/ instead of the pentacle.

Pinch our symbol would they:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tudor_rose
Some people have no respect
Actually their's looks rather more abstract. 

Ayup. And the Tudors, themselves did pinch it, too.... at least ours is pinched from the same lot.

[Aphos]

I came across this article today in the Washington Post.  Note:  You may have to sign up with the Washington Post to read the article.  Signing up, though, is free.

With little public attention or even notice, the House of Representatives has passed a bill that undermines enforcement of the First Amendment's separation of church and state. The Public Expression of Religion Act - H.R. 2679 - provides that attorneys who successfully challenge government actions as violating the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment shall not be entitled to recover attorneys fees. The bill has only one purpose: to prevent suits challenging unconstitutional government actions advancing religion.

It seems that there has been a law on the books for about 30 years that a lawyer who wins a civil rights case against the US government is awarded his lawyer's fees paid by the government.  This was done to encourage suits dealing with civil rights issues.

But the new law eliminates the recovery of fees by the lawyer in cases dealing with the establishment clause...that is, separation of church and state.  If the bill makes it all the way to become law, it would all but eliminate cases brought by individuals on this issue.

[Sibling Chatty]

This is something that should be a MAJOR talking point of anyone doing a political discussion.

Setting the one issue apart is tanamount to effectively silencing ALL religious abuses, not over the picayune stuff like the Holiday/Christmas issue, but over bona-fide religious discrimination.

"First they came for..."

[Aggie]

I think Harper just put a more general version of this into action up here...  our most Toluous Sibling seems more read-up on it than me (see Politics thread).

[Willowsmith]

Here is a question, what really is the difference in the religions? What is the fight about? You have cristians saying their beliefs are completely different then chathoics, and muslims saying their beliefs are completely different then Jews. To my way of thinking we are all the same. This is of course my own opinion and based on my own viewpoints. However I do not see where there should be room for intolerance. Humans cover every continent, we have created so many civilizations and religions, empires and customs that the fact that we should be steeped in ideals new and old and celebrate them all for what they are. Symbols are forms of communication mostly right? And please correct me if I am incorrect. A symbol represents a meaning something you are expressing to others. Those who use a symbol as a fad item something "cool" are really going to show themselves to be fools. The first time they are asked the meaning they show their ignorance. The same goes for those who have religious intolerance. Here is an example, I went to get a part-time job at a mall store and the store manager took a likeing to me the first few times I went in. But she didnt have any positions open with enough hours. I tell her that is okay I am working with my mother on our buisiness and can make do with fewer hours till a position opens up. She askes what the buisiness was called, so I gave her a buisiness card and explained we make scented bath products for pagans. She tells me she cannot give me the position we had talked about now because I would make her and the rest of the staff uncomfortable. She knew for a fact that the rest of the staff were christian. When I mentioned that that was illegal she said it was her store she could hire who she chose. Ignorance. When she discovered that what she had done really was illegal she claimed she was just about to call me with a job offer but now felt insulted that I would imply such a thing as religious intolerance. I have never gone back but nor have I pressed charges. I felt it was not worth the effort to eek something out of someone already suffering with a narrow world view. 

[ivor]

I think it's interesting that Abraham is the Father of the Christian, Muslim and Jewish faiths, all thinking they are the only right religion.

Sorry to hear about your job opportunity going wrong.  Most Christians think Pagans are Devil worshipers or something don't they?   

[Sibling Lambicus the Toluous]

Here is a question, what really is the difference in the religions? What is the fight about? You have cristians saying their beliefs are completely different then chathoics, and muslims saying their beliefs are completely different then Jews.

I think it's safe to say that most Catholics consider themselves to be Christians (though I've met Protestants who claim that Catholicism isn't Christian).

I'm conflicted when it comes to this sort of thing.  On the one hand, I think it's a very positive thing to be ecumenical and inclusive.  On the other hand, I realize that if I were given a set of specific instructions by the one and only Lord our God (as I'm sure many believers of many faiths feel they have been given), I'd certainly feel compelled to follow them to the letter.

On the gripping hand*, since "do to others as you would have them do to you" is a central tenet of all the Abrahamic religions (right?), you'd think they'd be generally tolerant of each other.

BTW - how do bath products for pagans differ from other bath products?   



*Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle rock!

[The Meromorph]

BTW - how do bath products for pagans differ from other bath products?   

I'm gonna guess they are made from pure and natural 'organically grown' ingredients, and flavored and scented with hand grown and hand harvested herbs.
Hm! Maybe I should check 'em out, sounds yummee! (mind you this thought is from a fat old Englishman who uses Joy Lemon Liquid as shampoo sometimes  )

[Willowsmith]

What confuses me most is that religion, faith, spirituality. In my humble opinions these should be private and individual things. Anyone can look at any religious text and interpret it different then someone else. That is actually part of what drove me from being a catholic (which I once was) or a christian (which I looked at amungst other faiths). I want to decide what I beleive based on my mind not someone promiseing rewards or suffering when I am dead. The earth is my church, I am my own preistess, and I commune with divinity with long hikes up mountains and clear nights with stars. However that is of course me, and I lead only myself. And I beleive that no matter what you believe you are right, if only to yourself. So I am confused at how some members of other faiths can fight and bicker like children. The problem is that they are not children and the damage they do is not small. To be honest it frightens me, the power they have.

Sorry to hear about your job opportunity going wrong.  Most Christians think Pagans are Devil worshipers or something don't they?  

Thank you, though I am much happier with what I do now. I work as a tech support for MSN Games.

BTW - how do bath products for pagans differ from other bath products?  

Basically we take bulk unsceanted handmade shampoos, conditioners, and body wash, and use natural oils to make them smell pretty. They corrispond with herbs sacred to the different goddesses, gods, chakras, and spells.

And they smell gooooooooood.

[ivor]

The earth is my church, I am my own preistess, and I commune with divinity with long hikes up mountains and clear nights with stars.

Cool!  I just hiked the Grand Canyon.  It was beautiful.  Maybe I should look into "being my own priestess." 

Thank you, though I am much happier with what I do now. I work as a tech support for MSN Games.

That sounds interesting at least.  More fun than supporting business apps.

Basically we take bulk unsceanted handmade shampoos, conditioners, and body wash, and use natural oils to make them smell pretty. They corrispond with herbs sacred to the different goddesses, gods, chakras, and spells.

And they smell gooooooooood.

Cleary this will bring the apocalypse.  It must be stopped. 

MB

[Willowsmith]

I have never been to the grand canyon but what I have seen of pictures has made me yearn to go more then once.

Do you support business apps? Wow I admire your patience. Support can drive one crazy.

Clearly this will bring the apocalypse.  It must be stopped. 

*Giggles* apparently it is one of the greatest evil known to man. Must be stopped indeed, eradicated even.

[ivor]

I have never been to the grand canyon but what I have seen of pictures has made me yearn to go more then once.

It's a must hike.  It's much more difficult than one would expect, but well worth it when properly prepared.  Someday I hope to figure out how to be properly prepared.

Do you support business apps? Wow I admire your patience. Support can drive one crazy.

I am a programmer but I spend much time on the phone with the tougher problems.

*Giggles* apparently it is one of the greatest evil known to man. Must be stopped indeed, eradicated even.

I would never have suspected shampoo could be so evil and powerful. 

MB

[Sibling Lambicus the Toluous]

BTW - how do bath products for pagans differ from other bath products?  

Basically we take bulk unsceanted handmade shampoos, conditioners, and body wash, and use natural oils to make them smell pretty. They corrispond with herbs sacred to the different goddesses, gods, chakras, and spells.

And they smell gooooooooood.

That makes sense... for the life of me, I couldn't figure out what "pagan soap" would be, but that sounds nice.

[Willowsmith]

My avatar is a pic of my hubby and I on top of Mt. Si, not the hardest mountain here but gorgeous at the top. I am looking into learning a language or two for programming. I admire your patience wow. Hee Hee, evil shampoo bad shampoo *dons paladin armour to fight the monstrous Shampoo and his sidekick The "slightly less evil" Conditioner*.

  We also make nice smelling Shampoo and Conditioner for anyone, we just focus more on the pagan side, more fun making up names and scents for.