Scottish Independence

[Griffin NoName]

I just realised if they go for Independence then the weather forecast will be shorter. I wonder if the weather presenters will get paid less?

[Opsa]

Yes, and we will all be forced to wear kilts.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

The Catalans in Spain are trying the same although the central government came out saying that a vote would be illegal under the constitution of 1978.

I believe it is stupid for the Catalans, but I'm not so sure about the Scots, the UK is in a weird relation with Europe, to the point of may be leaving the Union, at which point it would make perfect sense for the Scots to separate and ask for integration with continental Europe like the Irish.

Or, who knows, the Scots may be Euroskeptics like the English as well...

[Griffin NoName]

Alec Salmond's declaration/white paper whatever he called it, is full of flaws. For example he says they will still use the £ stirling but the rest of the UK have not said this is Ok with them! etc etc I could go on but it's all much the same, what they will do with no confirmation that they actually can.

Personally I don't want the Scots to go independent. I like them being part of the UK. It might benefit us if they did, but I still don't want them to do it. I don't believe it will benefit them.

edited for spelling

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Technically speaking, there shouldn't be a major issue using an external currency by itself, it's only a matter of purchasing the actual currency from the central bank, for instance, Ecuador decided to forgo it's currency -the Sucre- for American Dollars, and they purchase the actual currency from the Federal Reserve. I believe it is something similar with Bosnia-Herzegovina and the Euro. The downside is that there is no way to affect the exchange rate at all, so if the currency devaluates or reevaluates, there is no central bank policy possible (like buying or selling foreign currency or printing more currency).

[Griffin NoName]

There is an issue if the bank says no you can't have any.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

It makes things a bit more difficult but not by much, currency markets can supply a good deal, and the currency currently in use doesn't need to be replaced.

[Griffin NoName]

  

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/feb/11/main-parties-rule-out-scottish-currency-union

[roystonoboogie]

http://www.adamsmith.org/news/press-releases/comment-an-independent-scotland-would-better-off-using-the-pound-without

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Hey, if they want to be truly independent they should use bitcoin...

[Griffin NoName]

Yes, someone on TV tonight was suggesting the bitcoin.

I was winking and waving at Zono, Roy, because I said Scot.Nats were assuming we'd say yeh sure use our currency, and I said they should have asked first cos we might say no (me English hat on). And lo n behold we (England) just said no.

Does Scotland really want to be like Equador?

[Swatopluk]

Well, Serbia tied its currency to the Deutsche Mark for some time too without asking for permission

[roystonoboogie]

The currency belongs to all of the UK, not to England. The Bank of England does not just indemnify the English monetary system, it indemnifies the UK  monetary system. Scottish banks issue their own notes, so we already have our own pound. But if the Bank of England decides that it will not indemnify Scottish banks, Scotland will just walk away and leave remainder of the UK with all the Sovereign Debt. Sure, we lose a bit of credit score, but we will have no debt.

The pound belongs to all of the UK, just like the debt does.

[Griffin NoName]

But if x and y borrow money in their joint name then they are both liable. I cannot see how Scotland can ever just walk away from their share of the debt, though I can see it is an encouraging thought for Yes people.

By the way, we worship tolerance at the TFM, so not trying to provoke.

[roystonoboogie]

I'm not trying to be intolerant or provoke anyone. But what you are being told by the media about the pound is frankly wrong: it does not lie within the gift of the Westminster Government to stop an independent Scotland from using the pound. The pound is a common currency between Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England.

From the Act of Union 1707:

XVI. THAT from and after the Union, the Coin shall be of the same Standard and Value throughout the United Kingdom, as now in England, and a Mint shall be continued in Scotland; under the same Rules as the Mint in England, and the present Officers of the Mint continued, subject to such Regulations and Alterations as Her Majesty, her Heirs or Successors, or the Parliament of Great Britain shall think fit.

The Scots are exercising their universal human right to self-determination, as recognised in the Edinburgh Agreement, by having a referendum on whether to break or redefine certain aspects of that treaty. But that does not mean that we have to give all the pounds back: we want to keep the currency, we want to keep the value equivalency, we even want to keep the monarchy* (a union which dates back a further 102 years, but who's counting?)

The government of the rest of the UK (or rUK as it is known) wants to break or redefine these parts of the treaty. Fine. We'll tell them what we intend to do in that case. We will tell them that we will not take on any of the sovereign debt that the UK pound has incurred, like they are trying to tell us that we can't govern ourselves (we can), we're too small (we're not), or that we'll have to apply to join the European Union (explain how you plan to remove us from the EU first - I have an EU Passport and an EU Driving License, my country is a signatory that is in compliance with all EU treaties, we have members of the European Parliament who represent geographical constituencies in Scotland, and the EU expects to receive repayments for contributions to projects it has made in the geographical area of Scotland).

Scotland can continue to use the pound just like several US 'satellite countries' use the dollar. It's just that the Bank of England (which rUK intends to keep) can't regulate what we do, and they can't force us to repay debts that it has incurred. Without a negotiated monetary union, Scotland will never negotiate a debt repayment plan. Why would we, if rUK are being dicks about it? Hell, we'll even trade oil in the rUK pound and destabilise it, like happens to the dollar.

Scotland has proposed a reasonable and structured withdrawal from the union, keeping some bits, keeping some of the underlying structures. Not an ideal settlement from my perspective, but a realistic one. The UK government is using its statutory and legislative role (rather than its political role) to interfere in the process - David Cameron says that the decision is for the people of Scotland, and then brings the rest of the UK into it. I should point out that following DC and GO's outbursts this week, support for Yes has gone up.

^{*Personally, I'd privatise the monarchy and sell them to the highest bidder, probably Disney.}