Shocking Stats

[Griffin NoName]

That course sounds really interesting. Is there any PhD funding for a thesis in Applied Stupidity Studies?

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

I'm sure that someone would be willing to provide funding.

[Swatopluk]

The Texas GOP platform contains at least the seed for that with their demand to get rid of critical thinking in schools. I think to do that professionally one would need some well-funded research.

[Roland Deschain]

Interesting link there, Griffin, if more than a little sad. I started a thread in TOP (this feels like not saying "Voldemort", lol) a while ago on statistics I found relating to this in the US, which were much higher by adjusted figures, but these are no less sad.

I agree that we need to see these statistics, and to disseminate them as far and wide as possible. Only by pointing out our society's own glaring faults can we even begin to address them, and although there are plenty of groups aiming to do this, i'm not sure how effective many of them are. As i've said in other threads before on social issues, we need to alter our social consciousness as a nation, and then a planet, if we are ever going to lower these figures to what may be considered negligible (poor wording, I know, but i'm sure you understand my meaning).

That it happens at all is bad, but this is the fact of our animal heritage and our evolution since less sentient times. It's a cycle of abuse leading to poor upbringing leading to abuse, etc. If a child has no good start in life, it is more likely to continue with that attitude into adulthood then parenthood, and not necessarily in that order. We need social systems in place with real teeth to do what is necessary to break that cycle, and start treating certain things thought of as just parenting as abusive behaviour.

As a case in point, and this is all too common, I was out having a coffee in my hometown today, sitting there minding my own business, when a guy at a nearby table started arguing about some carp with another guy who just happened to walk past. I got the jist of it in that it was about a woman who was pregnant with guy #1's baby (allegedly his; i'm a little confused about that part) fucking guy #2 ('scuse the language, as quoting words used).

The woman in question came along with her daughter (around 6-7 years old, I think), and maybe a baby in a pushchair (I was listening more than watching), at which guy #1 became even more abusive, using language such as that used above, along with other words along those lines, even performing actions to mimic the aforementioned carnal act. This was all in front of the young girl, who was standing around 8 feet away watching it all with a smile on her face. Guy #1 appeared a little drunk, but again, i'm not overly clear on all salient points, as I wasn't intently watching. Guy #1 then offered guy #2 out "behind the cafe", and followed them down the road and around the corner out of ear- and eye-shot.

This is the sort of behaviour we need to stamp out at a bare minimum. These are the attitudes we need to change. This is the beginning of a life of no hope for a child, a life of them almost doomed to follow in their parents' footsteps. I was so close to just opening my mouth and giving them all a rather succinct piece of my mind in words of more than one syllable. This is human life at some of its lowest, and it makes me sick to see it so very often.

[Aggie]

This is human life at some of its lowest, and it makes me sick to see it so very often.

Ayuh, and the worst of it is when you can see the human being for the situation.  While some of the past's attitudes towards 'improving the lot of the poor' were offensive and condescending, throwing it all by the wayside is not a positive step.

I don't know if there's much of a push to improve things much anymore; given how ubiquitous credit is these days, you can fleece more out of the poor by keeping them financially (and functionally) illiterate than getting them established as middle-class consumers. There are big profits in low-quality goods and usurious lending. In the days of a cash economy, those at the top had some reason to ensure that those at the bottom got to the point where they could send some of that cash further up the line.

I hate to look at it in terms of profits, but that's how public policy gets set these days.  Ditto for women's emancipation in developing nations; wave the humanitarian flag while ensuring that GDP is increased by getting the other half of the adult population into the workforce.

[Griffin NoName]

We need social systems in place with real teeth to do what is necessary to break that cycle, and start treating certain things thought of as just parenting as abusive behaviour.

Watched a program on TV last night about fathers in 1920's and 1930's. It started from the premise that fathers at this time were always portrayed as cold, authoritarian, given to corporal punishment, and disinterested in their children. It then set out to demolish this by showing endless pictures/videos and quoting from letters, of fathers being utterly wonderful with their children etc. They did not consider any middle ground. I found it all a bit sickening, saccharine sweet, and unrealistic. Possibly because my own father was super extra authoritarian, coporially given to punishment, uninterested and never played with us, etc. at a later date. Slightly puzzled why this great need to alter people's perception of male parenting in the 20s' and 30's.... especially as from all horrid, to all nice. They had serious academics talking in raptures (sounded very silly) about the wonderful fathers. I wonder if TV is dumbing down academics? Or academics dumbing down TV? (actually I am being unfair as mostly academia and TV work well) - hopefully it was just these two idiots being exceptionally silly.

[Roland Deschain]

I definitely don't advocate throwing anything by the wayside but those policies and actions that cause no good, or even cause harm. Unfortunately we have to educate our children, and by that I mean all of them, whilst at the same time trying to get through to the adults as well. As I said, something new and effective must be thought of, based upon scientific fact rather than anecdotal evidence and hearsay (i'm referring to politicians, and others with vested interests).

I don't know what will work, which makes my complaining pretty useless in the short term, but if enough people speak up about something, others take note of it. Unfortunately you hit the nail on the head. So many people in power do not have it within their vested interest to elevate the poor of the world to a higher standard of living and education.

Just look at the way Africa is being raped, wars being waged over rare raw materials, and the way corporations come in waving money around to the politicians, who then screw over their own people in pursuit of that money. It's been done in South America, Central America, Africa, and Asia. It's even being done with tacit approval in the western world, all in the name of progress (it's not our progress!).

Governments step in to conflicts almost only when there's something at stake, such as having a seat in the middle east, oil reserves, or gas reserves. Somalia has been in desperate need of help for decades, with Islamic extremists being bred daily for campaigns of bombings, yet the only nations to really step in to help are South Africa and a few others. If it's a hotbed of terrorism and extremists, it serves the west to intervene to bring peace to what has been a war-torn and broken nation for far too long, but they don't have anything worth taking!

I'll end my rant here, lol. Griffin, I, too, dislike sugar-coating the past. Yes, there were decent people, but there were also bad ones. This has always been so, with only the moral zeitgeist to show what the overall situation is like. What channel was that on?

[Griffin NoName]

Monday late night BBC4. First of four programs in series.

The fact that Standard Chartered just has to pay a fine for acting illegally reflects general corruptness, uselessness, and lack of integrity in the world today. Why aren't all the top management set prison terms as any individual would be in such a case?

I'm very pessimistic. I think we've gone beyond a point where mere education can save us. Corruption underpins global life.

[Roland Deschain]

But you can't imprison bankers! They keep teh ecomony going!

[Griffin NoName]

Going where?

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

It's been done in South America, Central America, Africa, and Asia. It's even being done with tacit approval in the western world, all in the name of progress (it's not our progress!).

It has been done and still frequently done with the explicit approval, encouragement, suggestion or plain ordered by many corporate and governmental heads in the western world. Don't worry, the western world population is getting more and more of the same since the fall of communism, and by my estimates will be not that different from the 3rd world in a number of years.

Ironically, one of the things that protected the western middle classes was the inherent white supremacy of the elite, who considered that the suffering of 'those people' wasn't a problem because they were lesser beings. They don't have that problem anymore, therefore they can do the same with their own without a hitch.

[Roland Deschain]

Going where?

Well, do you want the polite answer or the rude one? The rude one has more truth in it.

Pretty much, Zono. Massive land grabs from indigenous populations, large swathes of rainforest cut down for lumber or to clear the way for strip mining, and nobody but the rich getting richer from it.

[Griffin NoName]

Going where?

Well, do you want the polite answer or the rude one? The rude one has more truth in it.

I was joking. Forgot the smilie rule.

The rude one will do.

[Roland Deschain]

Going where?

Well, do you want the polite answer or the rude one? The rude one has more truth in it.

I was joking. Forgot the smilie rule.

The rude one will do.

Those ******* ******** are ******* us up the ****, and doing it as hard as possible with no lubrication.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Going where?

Well, do you want the polite answer or the rude one? The rude one has more truth in it.

I was joking. Forgot the smilie rule.

The rude one will do.

Those ******* ******** are ******* us up the ****, and doing it as hard as possible with no lubrication.

Sand.  There's sand involved too.... lots and lots of abrasive sand...

... meh.