UFOs etc

[Swatopluk]

The term 'sterilize' was an allusion to Turtledove where the aliens use it as euphemism for wiping out all higher lifeforms on Earth to make it safe for colonization. The proponents get reminded that the result would not look like what the settlers want to find in their new home and that this could be bad for those responsible.
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As for minerals, there is a lot of stuff that can be only found in significant quantities on the type of planet we live on, in essence anything with a nuclear weight exceeding that of iron (exception: nickel). So, in our solar system the first target for such exploits would likely be Mars. It would provide a base from where further actions could be staged. Venus would be better placed for that but the environment is totally unsuitable unfortunately.

Personally I think that a 'manned' interstellar expedition would be an all or nothing thing, either big scale or not worth the huge effort. Robotic probes would probably not be necessary because large scale interferometry* would yield enough info to base the large scale expedition on. Probes would arrive only shortly before the main force.
I presume of course that Einstein will not be overturned, so visitors will not travel faster than light or use macroscopic wormholes.

*first prototypes are currently prepared. The possible scale is primarily limited by the achievable coherence and focusabilty of the used lasers. I guess the most feasible solution around here would be to park the interferometrically linked telescopes around the Lagrange points of Jupiter and Saturn yielding baselines of several astronomical units (current state of the art technology can cope with far lower distances only though, a few million miles maybe). That would be enough to read alien newspapers (at least the yellow press with their larger types).

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Considering that Earth-like planets are prime real state, sterilization of an "inferior" race isn't unthinkable, but the way to achieve it is far easier, just a couple of engineered virus/bacteria and you can decimate the population of the planet in matter of months, a second or third germ would deal with the remainder quite easily and the biosphere would be ready to be taken over. They just need to have little regard for other sentient species (hey, we don't have any either), and the cleanup can be used to create compost.

The idea of an interplanetary war is just silly.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

I agree-- interstellar war is pointless-- if you are after resources?  There are more available in space itself, in the OORT clouds (for example) than on high-gravity rocky balls.

If you can travel between stars, the simple chemistry of organic molecules could be done without the need to go get them from somewhere else.

And why raid an existing biosphere at all?  Your DNA is unlikely to be compatible anyway-- and it is likely uninhabited systems are more common than inhabited ones-- so you terraform an otherwise lifeless planet to suit your biology-- any you find already bearing life is likely toxic to your biochemistry.

But if you are xenophobic?  And are driven to wipe out life you don't recognize, when and wherever you can?  Then dropping asteroids is the easiest.   If you can jump between stars, it would be a simple task for your technology, to dislodge several giant asteroids to smash into any inhabited planets.  One after the other hitting the biosphere will get the job done in short order-- only bacteria would survive multiple hits. 

And starting over from bacteria, the planet will need a couple of billion years or so-- the local sun would go red giant, engulfing the planet by then.

I just don't see any rational reason to do such things. 

But I suppose there is no rule stating interstellar travelers must be rational...

[Griffin NoName]

Considering that Earth-like planets are prime real state, sterilization of an "inferior" race isn't unthinkable, but the way to achieve it is far easier, just a couple of engineered virus/bacteria and you can decimate the population of the planet in matter of months, a second or third germ would deal with the remainder quite easily and the biosphere would be ready to be taken over.

This was the exact story line of a recent US film import (r TV sereis) I watched recently. Can't remember the title. It was hung on the premice that a US pilot was half alien and to kill the US president. It all went wrong. Aliens locked up in some kind of ice shed escaped and tried to release the virus. Turned out to be quite a lot of half aliens living in US (they aged more slowly than humans), but that didn't seem all that relevant, except for one who was in the FBI. The aliens had to clear earth of humans to re-house their own people as their own planet was caput. (Oddly they only seemed to be concerned with clearing the US LoL). Load of rubbish. Anyonw know the title?

[Swatopluk]

Well, out in the Oort cloud you will not find much heavy material. That stuff naturally accumulates near the star while the light material condenses farther out. Essentially all light stuff we can find on the inner planets (esp. water) came there only after the planets had already formed. The oceans are the result of comets hitting Earth over time. Mars and Mercury lost theirs again due to heat, solar wind and insufficient size.

Unless we have to deal with predatory space nomads, any alien arrivals would probably be more interested in using Earth as a place to settle since transporting resources back from here to where they came from would be highly uneconomic. Earth is the only place around with liquid water and a nitrogen atmosphere. Mars has close to no nitrogen. Even if Mars was big enough to permanently keep an atmosphere (it could only keep one, if it was at a greater distance from the sun), all nitrogen would have to be imported, e.g. from Jupiter. Not that a nitrogen atmosphere would be mandatory but it would be a wee bit difficult to do chemistry, if that element was completely missing (I make no implications about alien BIOchemistry but we would need lots of nitrogen compounds even if our bodies did not contain any).

WE would commit genocide, if we were the invaders from space seeking new land. We did it to or own species, we would  not have many scruples to do it to inferior aliens (they must be inferior, or they would have reached us first).  It's sad but that's how we tick and what we would expect of others by default (and react accordingly).
If you ask me, Avatar was unrealistic because it was not shoot-first-no-need-to-ask-questions-later.
Btw, I have read an analysis about the economics of the Avatar scenario that showed that it is not totally off the mark. Above a certain value of the unobtainium it would actually be feasible and that value is in the range given in the movie. Ground operations would look different though. The movie has too much stuff carried over from Earth. In reality most would have to be made from scratch on location.

[Roland Deschain]

This was the exact story line of a recent US film import (r TV sereis) I watched recently. Can't remember the title. It was hung on the premice that a US pilot was half alien and to kill the US president. It all went wrong. Aliens locked up in some kind of ice shed escaped and tried to release the virus. Turned out to be quite a lot of half aliens living in US (they aged more slowly than humans), but that didn't seem all that relevant, except for one who was in the FBI. The aliens had to clear earth of humans to re-house their own people as their own planet was caput. (Oddly they only seemed to be concerned with clearing the US LoL). Load of rubbish. Anyonw know the title?

It was a TV series called The Event. It was ok, and fairly enjoyable to watch, but I don't think it'll be back for a second season.

But aliens capable of co-operating to the degree where they develop interstellar travel don't necessarily have to be malevolent. A warlike species would very easily wipe itself out before it ever got to that stage, so what's wrong with them being benevolent? If they find and observe us, and decide that we are too primitive technologically, socially, and economically, then they could move on, but check back every so often, just in case. I'm talking The Day the Earth Stood Still, Star Trek, etc, here. Maybe they give us a little push in the right direction (Chocky by John Wyndham, 2001 by Arthur C Clarke), maybe they don't.

The issue with all of our hypotheses is that they are limited by the way we think. An alien species would necessarily think differently to any of us, and in ways we could never imagine, so there may be something they would do in, maybe, social engineering to push civilisations along, or some as yet unimagined field of study. Maybe the isolation is enforced, so that when we finally do get beyond the metaphorical end of our own noses, we have adapted and grown up enough to be able to cope with at least some of what's out there. Maybe i'm just rambling, lol.

[Griffin NoName]

It was a TV series called The Event. It was ok, and fairly enjoyable to watch, but I don't think it'll be back for a second season.

Yes, it's all coming back to me now. No, I don't see it returning, although as I remember they left it open for further series.

The issue with all of our hypotheses is that they are limited by the way we think. An alien species would necessarily think differently to any of us, and in ways we could never imagine, so there may be something they would do in, maybe, social engineering to push civilisations along, or some as yet unimagined field of study.

All our imaginings of aliens are totally limited by the way our braiins work and by how we conceieve "livng" things. I see no reason to think aliens would be anything we would recognize at all. For all I know, my TV is actually an alien.

[Swatopluk]

We should still put warning signs at the entrance to this solar system saying "Beware! Third planet from the sun is inhabited by paranoid, notoriously violent beings. Proceed at own risk!".
Even if aliens should have no hostile intentions, they will be treated as if they had (because we would).

[Griffin NoName]

"Beware! Third planet from the sun is inhabited by paranoid, notoriously violent beings. Proceed at own risk!".

Have to be on one of those cards that have the same sentence written in umpteen different languages.

[Swatopluk]

A few well-chosen pictograms should do the job.
But the 'quality' of earthly broadcasting (radio and Tv) is often counted as the real reason for no aliens showing up or allowing us to catch their signals. A species that produces stuff like Musikantenstadl or certain types of talkshows will be  put on the black list of any self-respecting alien.

[Griffin NoName]

A few well-chosen pictograms should do the job.

Not if they are blind.

OK, now I am getting picky.

[Aggie]

If they sent only a single individual?  Who was carefully modified to look exactly like a typical human?   And only armed him(her)(it) with a working human-language vocabulary?   No one on earth would believe the story... would they?   No matter how mundane or wild... the majority of folk would either presume he was a magical-dude (religious) or just a nut-case.

In that case, it'd be much easier to make and send a realistic android. Wouldn't be hard if you could had a supercomputer that could intercept and decipher a few billion cell phone calls, in order to program it multilingually.

Some of the way God is described in the Old Testament seems fairly petty (i.e. like a powerful being, but not the Creator), and even now we are not too far off of having the technology to make it happen. An advanced space-travelling species would have the technologies necessary to pull off the same act, I suspect.

[pieces o nine]

In that case, it'd be much easier to make and send a realistic android. Wouldn't be hard if you could had a supercomputer that could intercept and decipher a few billion cell phone calls, in order to program it multilingually.

What?

And ruin all of the fun for the Away Team?

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

The Old Testament dude(s) seem somewhat restrained compared to some of the Indian, Greek, Egyptian or Mesopotamian dudes. Sometimes I think that the premise of Cowboys vs Aliens isn't that far fetched: a small crew looking to mine some rare material, find it here and proceed without much regard for the locals. No need to wipe them out unless it's necessary, not economically worth the effort if you have to deal with too many, and tempting to enslave a few by telling them you are a god. Or no mining crew but just a stranded one, they take advantage of their knowledge, weapons and the beliefs of the locals until someone comes by to take them back home. Those two could fit a number of myths in old cultures (I know that is somewhat a rehash of the ancient astronaut theory, but IMO it does have some merit).

[Swatopluk]

Even before the arrival of SciFi that idea  existed. In the foreword to the Prosaic Edda the author (Snorri Sturluson) presents the theory that the Ases (the Norse gods) were actually Asians (Troians to be precise) that used their superior culture and knowledge to impress the primitive locals and fooled them into believing that the new arrivals were gods. The Norse gods are rather unique in that they are not immortal and ageless but need special food to rejuvenate. In general they are much closer to just elevated humans than even the Greek gods of the Homeric tradition. And unlike those they are expected to lose the final battle against chaos. Thor was literally one to have a beer (or mead) with in person.