Sex, Teachers and their Students

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Reading the HuPo I found this story which has become a regular case of notoriety every time it happens, that is, when a female teacher makes advances on a high school boy. In this particular case a 42 y/o teacher sent sexually revealing text and picture messages to a 15 y/o student.

Now, the opposite [meaning a male teacher to a female student, not a student sexting a teacher ) happens from time to time but usually there is no controversy about it, it's generally considered a big offense and teacher would be seen as a pervert deserving several years in jail for indecent exposure, etc, etc.

The question is: is it different if an older woman makes sexual advances to a teenage boy than when an older man makes sexual advances to a teenage girl? Is this a discussion limited to the age of consent (which rarely is below 18 and never below 16 in the States)?, or the position of authority from the teacher makes it worse (and if the student was above the age of consent)?, or the fact that is a woman making advances on a man make it inherently less problematic?

[Swatopluk]

I'd see the authority angle as the important part. It would be different in my view, if a female teacher seduced a boy (or girl) that is not at her school. In general I'd say that the type of action matters and the reaction after an object of desire declares lack of interest. Once intimidation comes into play it does not matter what sex the offender is.
I think in this context the inverse situation has to be also considered, i.e. students trying to seduce teachers using the threat of (false) charges of harassment. This would be of course be more the case with girls since society these days assumes as default that it is the man that makes the (unwanted) advances.
I pity any court that has to deal with cases of teacher-student sexual affairs of any kind.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

University teachers are told not to engage with their students even when those are above the age of consent, although it does happen with relative frequency (I can think of 2 cases from my music school years).

It's endemic and frequently covered up.




.............................ooooops so sorry Zono, I seem to have edited your post and lost it. Um. Er. Sorry. Not quite sure what happened. Can you remember what you wrote? ~Griffin

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Well, the basic idea was that of agreement with Swato:

Once intimidation comes into play it does not matter what sex the offender is.

Plus:

• How problematic is if the student is above the age of consent, IOW is a teacher in a position of authority in regards to the student by definition? Is that position an inherent cause for opprobrium?
• And the opposite, is 15 y/o capable of consent? Is it possible to see a 30+ as not preying on a teen? Can you really draw a line?
  

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

What, no takers? I would've thought that the subject was controversial enough...

[Aggie]

I'm not sure exactly where I stand on this as a general issue, other than knowing that it's a teacher's professional responsibility to not let these things happen. 

One could say that teenage boys are in a unique position of risk, because many of them would likely welcome* sexual advances by a female teacher (provided the boy in question found her attractive). I'd say the idea is pretty well entrenched in teenage-male mythology, and therefore it's hard to make an objective judgment as a male.

^{*or think they'd welcome it.}

From a legal standpoint, I think it should be handled the same as any gender combination, and as harshly.

[Swatopluk]

Similar situations occur at universities. Many have strict rules that state that any professor's contract will be instantly terminated should (s)he be found guilty of sexual relations with a student (even consensual).

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

One could say that teenage boys are in a unique position of risk, because many of them would likely welcome* sexual advances by a female teacher (provided the boy in question found her attractive). I'd say the idea is pretty well entrenched in teenage-male mythology, and therefore it's hard to make an objective judgment as a male.

^{*or think they'd welcome it.}

I guess there is something to think about there, welcoming sexual advances doesn't calculate the subsequent tangle that happens afterward; consensual sex isn't really as complicated by itself, but there are emotional consequences to any affair and a less experienced partner may find him/herself emotionally distressed as a result.

Other thing is that I'm not completely sure (if any of the ladies can confirm or deny this) only a male teen would welcome sexual advances from a teacher. Certainly there is a stereotype regarding sex obsessed male teens but it would seem that female teens are far less behind than conventionally thought (or check the charts for age of first sexual relation, active sex life and teen pregnancy).

[Swatopluk]

Girls falling in love with their teachers is an age-old cliche and theme of many a bad novel. I doubt it would be so, if there was no base in reality.

[Aggie]

I guess there is something to think about there, welcoming sexual advances doesn't calculate the subsequent tangle that happens afterward; consensual sex isn't really as complicated by itself, but there are emotional consequences to any affair and a less experienced partner may find him/herself emotionally distressed as a result.

Yeah, but we're talking teenagers here.  Multiply the emotional consequences by about 10, and the pre-consideration of any type of consequences by 0.01.    That will apply in any teenage relationship and the majority of sexual encounters, I think. It doesn't make it more permissible; it's actually a reason for protection.   However, I would say that this can be applied across the board (sometimes to a lesser extent) to any relationship where one partner is more experienced in life and love.  The age of consent should weed out the most egregious abuses of that, but the potential for abuse exists where one partner 'knows the moves' and the other one is going in wide-eyed and idealistic. 

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

That will apply in any teenage relationship and the majority of sexual encounters, I think. It doesn't make it more permissible; it's actually a reason for protection.

Being the devil's advocate here, wouldn't that support a sex separated middle & high school education? You can't prevent clumsy teens having relationships nor would avoiding them at all costs would avoid the learning curve involved.

[Aggie]

What, are you going to ban them meeting outside of school hours as well?  In my experience, the more intimately (in the personal, not sexual sense) men and women know each other, the less likely erm, random hookups happen.  A cohort of students that has been together since the start of puberty isn't more likely to encourage risky sexual behaviour than groups of male and female students with little interactive experience and a whole lot of need for basic desired-gender interaction.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

I guess my point is that some teens will have sex regardless of what the current cultural standards dictate*. There is a curve to learn how to manage emotions and desires which I doubt can be achieved without practice. How can anyone learn that without a level of pain involved is anybody's guess.


*hard to know what is the related reality in very strict societies with draconian measures, perhaps it works as immediate dissuasion but practice suggests that it drastically lowers women freedoms.

[Griffin NoName]

 However, I would say that this can be applied across the board (sometimes to a lesser extent) to any relationship where one partner is more experienced in life and love. 

Bring on the Relationship Police !  How would you control this - 

[Darlica]

Sorry I'm late to the party. I've been swamped at work.


First, here the age of consent is 15 any sexually contact with someone under 15 is considered statutory rape, well at least in theory. Usually, if they both consent and are around 14-15 and there was no threats or violence involved it won't go to court at all. 

The teacher/pupil situation can be complicated at so many levels. Let's start with the high school setting...

First we have the age, under aged pupil/student and the teacher should be in deep shit no matter the other circumstances.

And then the consent. Yes, both some boys and girls have fantasies and feel attracted to their teachers, specially if they are somewhat younger and good looking... The question is as raised before if they realise what the consequences might be if they get in to a sexual relationship with a teacher.   
 
And then we have the power factor. Anything that involves violence or a threat of violence or any threat BTW also falls in to  the teacher should be in the deep shit, category. 

The teacher have power over his/her students future trough the grades and the possibility to sway other teachers in one direction or another.
When it comes to sex, a more experienced person usually holds some power over his/her less experienced partner (age is not really a factor here). Put the teacher power and the experience power together and a teenage pupil doesn't have much of a say.

A teacher in high school should just keep his/hers pants on and go f*** someone old enough do know what they are doing...
 

Univeristy/College is a whole other ballgame IMHO.

As always, any kinds of threats should put a person in deep shit.
Other than that we are dealing with adults here and that means that at least in my world consent is king.

The only troublesome factor IMHO is the power the teacher is holding over the students future, on the other hand here it's a double edge the student also holds power over the teachers future.

Banning a university teacher for having a relationship with a student is beyond stupid to me.
The Uni is a workplace for both teachers and students and people tend to fall in love with people they meet at their workplace, especially if they spend a lot of time there and don't have the time to socialise much outside work...
Yes it's not very professional to start a relationship with a student you teach at the moment, but that can be worked around by letting someone else set the grades.


That's my 2c