Welcome to the Monoculture

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

I hate McDs and wont go into one unless there is no other option. I don't own an iPod (or any other Apple product for what matters) just on principle, my mp3 player is Creative and I'm even using my phone for that purpose more and more.

But I get what you say Bob, besides, is there a real difference if I go to Wendy's instead of McD's? The fact that we can have a lively and civil discussion regardless of our different backgrounds in different parts of the world proves that there is a common cultural ground and I see that as something generally good.

True, certain things will be lost in the process (just look at the number of languages dead or dying in the past hundred years, to name just one example) but that is for the most part inexorable.

As for lost language?

More and more, we are creating virtually unlimited storage opportunities for such things as dead languages. 

And, with the advent of the internet, even if there are but 10 people in the world interested, those 10 can get "together" via the web, and study, discuss and preserve an obscure subject; never before has humanity had such an ability-- to take less than 1/1000 percent of interest, get it's advocates working in cooperation, and the subject thrives a bit.

I think the advent of all this glut of information, means that unless we somehow loose the ability to "read" these digital storage monsters, we need never worry about loosing the comprehension of any language [that we now know] ever again.

Which is a sort of preserving the variety and uniqueness of what remains of human achievements.

So that even as we slowly evolve into one giant mass ant-hive of same-ness?  We can, if we like or are so moved, carve out a virtual community, an on-line culture of left-handed fuschia-orchid wearing [but only on 5th Saturdays in months ending in "r"] gecko-lovers.

None of that would have been possible 100 years ago.

[beagle]

I'm really upset about the strawman thing.  I was told this place was different.

Apologies if it seems that way, but my argument feels logically connected back to your post from my point of view. viz...

The same stores dominating in each town being a consequence of

Dominance of the same brands globally being a consequence of

Fast replication of succesful service industry units being a logical development of

Fast replication of manufacturing industry items, being a consequence of

Economies of scale,

Being made possible by consistency of quality and production.

---

I'm open to correction as to where the flaw in the argument is, or which interpretation of sameness is eluding me.

I'm not saying that the above is a good thing necessarily.  Personally it pisses me off for instance that Intel were bankrolling the yes Irish EU referendum, because they can't be bothered to deal with different cultures across Europe.

[Zan]

I'm really upset about the strawman thing.  I was told this place was different.

Apologies if it seems that way, but my argument feels logically connected back to your post from my point of view. viz...

Apologies aren't necessary.  I'm just going to take a break from ranting, that's all.

[Jayna]

Monoculture isn't about McDonald's, it's about a culture that embraces sameness as a virtue.

Isn't it just overhang from the industrial revolution? If the price of having your first bone china plates, your first cast iron bedstead, your first W.C., bicycle or car was that it was the same as everyone else's, who cared? And if you're going to ship steam trains to India you'd better be sure you can make the same bolt thread this week as last week. Reproducability of production has just extended into the service sector too, succesful techniques are cloned as fast as widgets. 

It's only when the population has serious excess income that people have the means and inclination to buy the farm shop food, the handmade furniture, the custom-made jewellery, the limited issue designer clothes and so on.  You can see this in English towns. It's the prosperous ones that have the Ye Old Tea Shoppe, traditional toy shops and farmers' markets instead of Starbucks, Toys R Us  and Tescos.

Hmmm. Around here, the very poorest neighborhoods don't have chain stores or restaurants. The chains don't go to the ghetto... not in this town. It's all dingy local holes-in-the-wall. The chains are clustered in prosperous areas. What does that mean for your theory?

[Jayna]

McDonald's is thick on the ground even here, where we have more restaurants per capita than any other city in the world, and most of them are excellent (they have to be, to survive).

Monoculture isn't about McDonald's, it's about a culture that embraces sameness as a virtue. I find it frightening based on that aspect alone. McDonald's didn't create the monoculture ethic, it merely occupies a niche created by it.

I think I'm gonna stop ranting.  It seems to be followed by threadjacking, and then me being asked 3 pages later to defend things I didn't say.  Also, giving each person's posts individual attention is now somehow equal to me saying I'm "better than someone", so I have to mash everyone's answers into one post, where it's really hard to read.

I'm really upset about the strawman thing.  I was told this place was different.

People are the same everywhere, hon. It doesn't change, and it would be madness to expect it to. We are all monkeys, when we get down to it.

I don't get the aversion to answering in individual posts, either. I find it really hard to read when multiple people are answered in one post, and I can't maintain a train of thought when I'm trying to compile a bunch of different quotes into one post. Maybe it's the ADHD, but I can't. Usually I just give up, which may be a blessing because who really wants to read my exposition on politics or social issues anyway?

[beagle]

Hmmm. Around here, the very poorest neighborhoods don't have chain stores or restaurants. The chains don't go to the ghetto... not in this town. It's all dingy local holes-in-the-wall. The chains are clustered in prosperous areas. What does that mean for your theory?

Theories on globalization are the last thing to globalize?

[Zan]

People are the same everywhere, hon. It doesn't change, and it would be madness to expect it to. We are all monkeys, when we get down to it.

I don't get the aversion to answering in individual posts, either. I find it really hard to read when multiple people are answered in one post, and I can't maintain a train of thought when I'm trying to compile a bunch of different quotes into one post. Maybe it's the ADHD, but I can't. Usually I just give up, which may be a blessing because who really wants to read my exposition on politics or social issues anyway?

Well, yeah.  I'm kinda done with it, too.  I don't understand the rules, and I get mad when my thread gets jacked on response #1.  Then I get called to task for things I never said.

I'm just going back to lurking for a bit.

[Jayna]

So that even as we slowly evolve into one giant mass ant-hive of same-ness?  We can, if we like or are so moved, carve out a virtual community, an on-line culture of left-handed fuschia-orchid wearing [but only on 5th Saturdays in months ending in "r"] gecko-lovers.

What it matters is that those of us who are different get squashed by the tide of sameness, and its accompanying disapproval of difference.

What it matters is that as the sameness encroaches, we lose the opportunity to experience strangeness, which IMO is crucial to intellectual development.

Most people live in their communities, not online. I am fond of my online communities, but given a choice between having a fabulous internet club of people with similar interests and having a not-quite-ideal physical community of people with disparate interests, I'll take the physical community any day. Most of my IRL friends only have a few things in common with me... that's not what brings us together. Being comfortable hanging out and doing stuff is what brings us together. I can listen to LK talking about her French students all night over wine... I don't speak French, and I'm not a teacher. It doesn't matter. I can listen to Zan talk about maintenance and managing people... I'm not an engineer, and I'm not a manager. It doesn't matter. He tells a damn funny story, and we get along. THAT'S what matters.

I live in a physical community that has a shared culture, and something that matters to me that I can leave this community and go to another one thousands of miles away, and be in a place that is truly foreign. Or, at least, I used to. That strangeness stimulates your brain in ways that you cannot achieve online. There are reasons students are often sent abroad. Those reasons are gradually disappearing, and I find that to be a great loss.

Perhaps I will get in trouble for posting this soliloquy as a separate message, but I have a really hard time compiling multiple trains of thought into a single post. It simply doesn't make sense to my poor spastic brain, so usually, I skip it. There are a lot of things that I just don't reply to here, because unlike everywhere else on the internet I hang out I have this fear that I'll get my hand slapped if I post my thoughts individually. I try to provide actual content in each post, and spend time and real effort on it, not just "lol" or "I agree", so I hope I will be forgiven and not considered an attention-whore in this case. And now I will shut up.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Monoculture -at least the way I see it- doesn't (or shouldn't) mean that everybody speaks, eats, dress and generally think the same, but that there is a common framework of interaction. Just to mention one example I am sure there are a numbers of subcultures closer than 20 miles from my house that may be far more foreign than the ones I've met while traveling. Again, I do believe that the ecosystem will leave space for things outside mass production, precisely because of mass production and the desire to have something unique from time to time.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Hmmm. Around here, the very poorest neighborhoods don't have chain stores or restaurants. The chains don't go to the ghetto... not in this town. It's all dingy local holes-in-the-wall. The chains are clustered in prosperous areas. What does that mean for your theory?

I cannot pretend to speak for beagle, but I'd blame the local city government-- 'roun' here, we do get McD's in sh!tty neighborhoods-- but only on major corners, so's the cops can patrol them and get free coffee.

As for shopping centers?  Those go where there is a perceived demand-- if nearby stores are bringing in the cash, then other chains wanna get in on the flow of filthy lucre.   Another factor, is property values and tax shelters.  If a possible shopping center site is surrounded by upscale or middle-class housing?  And, if it's developers can squeeze a tax shelter or tax break out of the city government?  (typically through hidden kickbacks, or other "investment opportunities") then you get a shopping center-- and it creates it's own demand simply by being.

Honestly, many cities have areas of town that they have literally given up on:  cops never go in there in less than threes-- (that's 3 cars, Virginia. Yes, there is a Wolf) and streets only get "repaired" after much complaining is formally filed, or if the local media gets wind.   

Robert Heinlein often talked about city areas that were formal "abandoned zones".   I think his vision is fulfilled in some cities-- all except for the formal declaration of abandonment. 

Which is sad.   Those areas contain people, too-- potential voters.

But just as sadly, people in the very poorest places in many societies do not actually vote.  Many do not realize they *can* vote.  And many that do?  Are too under-informed to vote in their best interests.   For example:  if you look at people who vote Republican versus Democrat in the US, and separate it by annual income, you'll typically see a shift to the Republicans among the poorest-- provided those poorest are also members of fundamentalist religions.   This is a clear case of voting *against* their own interests, as the Republicans have *never* advocated any policies that assist the very poorest.  Tax breaks do not help a family that doesn't make enough to pay taxes in the first place.  Same for tax refunds on real-estate:  those folk don't *own* real estate, never have.  Yet?  They consistantly vote for a party who's policies go directly *against* their own personal interest.

And so, the poorest areas of a city ...... remain poor.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

I try to provide actual content in each post, and spend time and real effort on it, not just "lol" or "I agree", so I hope I will be forgiven and not considered an attention-whore in this case. And now I will shut up.

Three possible approaches to your conundrum, re: posting "rules" (I think of them as suggestions)

1) simply fall back, give up and stop posting everything you think of-- I hope you won't.  This forum has slowed enough as it is, traffic-wise.  (at least for serious subjects.... while I have nothing at all against humor-only threads, I lost interest in that activity a while back, and only read serious or semi-serious threads, looking for something that motivates me to post.  Such as here)

2) do what I often do:  hit reply to a post, just after you've posted, compose your thoughts, then when done, instead of clicking "POST", you go:  COPY, hit the back-button, click "MODIFY" on you last post, then PASTE your new composition, complete with the quote, into your last post.

3) simply ignore the suggestion, and post as you would elsewhere.  Sure, some will complain.  So what?  Let them:  it's their job.  I seriously doubt you'll be ousted over *that*.  I've only seen a very few ousting of the Monastery since it was built-- and that was over the heinous crime of SPAM.   Clearly, you are *not* spamming up the place.   If you walk in with muddy feet?  Sure, some will complain. So what?

I, for one, won't.  And I expect that the complainers will cease after an admonition or three, once they see that you are the sort who desires individual replies to indivdual posts.  I cannot see the harm, at the level of traffic we currently have?  What can it hurt.

(and yes, I fully expect to be reprimanded by the above, but again?  That's the give-and-take of life, is it not?  If you are not occasionally irritated, or do not irritate?  Are you still alive?  I seem to recall a definition of being alive, is responding to irritation....   )

And....just to follow my own advice?  Instead of #2, I'm gonna go with #3....

 

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

But just as sadly, people in the very poorest places in many societies do not actually vote.

Actually there are many cases in which the poor don't vote because they don't see any benefit on doing that. How does voting change their lives any meaningful form? Back home where there is no left, right or center (regardless of their claims) politicians almost never do a thing for the poor* and in consequence pretty words don't work with their poorest 'constituents'. If policies are always geared to those who have something, the ones without feel and are excluded.

Now, here in the States there is something else against them, which is the IMNSHO the idiotic measure to make elections in a regular working day, as opposed to a Sunday when at least a majority of people isn't working. If you aren't paid for making a line (for hours in some cases) and will get a reprimand (or even get fired) in such cases, why risk your job on something that will change little of your practical life?

The untold rule of our current society is: if you have no money, you will be excluded.

*There is a rant somewhere about populism and cases like Venezuela but I wont get into that now.

[Jayna]

Thanks for the encouragement, Bob! 

[Scriblerus the Philosophe]

People are the same everywhere, hon. It doesn't change, and it would be madness to expect it to. We are all monkeys, when we get down to it.

I don't get the aversion to answering in individual posts, either. I find it really hard to read when multiple people are answered in one post, and I can't maintain a train of thought when I'm trying to compile a bunch of different quotes into one post. Maybe it's the ADHD, but I can't. Usually I just give up, which may be a blessing because who really wants to read my exposition on politics or social issues anyway?

Well, yeah.  I'm kinda done with it, too.  I don't understand the rules, and I get mad when my thread gets jacked on response #1.  Then I get called to task for things I never said.

I'm just going back to lurking for a bit.

There really aren't any rules here to speak of. Don't worry about posting a response to everything, every time. You can come back to a post later, if you feel the need. I generally reply to one or two, perhaps three, at a time and don't worry about the rest.
If you see the thread wandering too far away from the discussion you were interested in having, nudge it back with a post directly related to the OP or say something.

[Zan]

People are the same everywhere, hon. It doesn't change, and it would be madness to expect it to. We are all monkeys, when we get down to it.

I don't get the aversion to answering in individual posts, either. I find it really hard to read when multiple people are answered in one post, and I can't maintain a train of thought when I'm trying to compile a bunch of different quotes into one post. Maybe it's the ADHD, but I can't. Usually I just give up, which may be a blessing because who really wants to read my exposition on politics or social issues anyway?

Well, yeah.  I'm kinda done with it, too.  I don't understand the rules, and I get mad when my thread gets jacked on response #1.  Then I get called to task for things I never said.

I'm just going back to lurking for a bit.

There really aren't any rules here to speak of. Don't worry about posting a response to everything, every time. You can come back to a post later, if you feel the need. I generally reply to one or two, perhaps three, at a time and don't worry about the rest.
If you see the thread wandering too far away from the discussion you were interested in having, nudge it back with a post directly related to the OP or say something.

Thanks, but when we were directed here, we were given an impression of the board which seems to have been inaccurate.  Since then, the person who invited us has told me that I am not a suitable candidate for this board.

So without any fuss or hysterics, I shall depart.  Thanks for having me, it's been fun.