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What the heck is wrong with people?!

Started by Sibling Lambicus the Toluous, June 12, 2008, 04:45:07 PM

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Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)

Quote from: Griffin NoName on June 14, 2008, 02:09:28 PM
In the UK it's correct official name is a "sleeping policeman".
That sounds close to the translation of the expression Policía Acostado or literally 'lying policeman'.
Sibling Zono(trichia Capensis) aka anon1mat0 aka Nicolás.

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Opsa

I'd imagine that the term "lying policeman" wouldn't sit well with the boys in blue.


Aggie

Quote from: Griffin NoName on June 14, 2008, 02:09:28 PM
In the UK it's correct official name is a "sleeping policeman".

Would people slow down for one of those in the road?  :devil2: :devil2: :devil2:
WWDDD?

Opsa

Hoo, hoo...

This is an interesting discussion. I live in a little old straight-shot American town and we are currently working on a comprehensive plan to underground the old overhead wires and re-do the old (ceramic!) water and sewer lines. We are attempting to do a little design work as long as we have to tear up the roads, anyway, and have been investigating ways to slow down the traffic.

We have discussed speed bumps, speed humps, traffic circles (heaven forbid, but they do slow people down) and visual cues such as narrowed areas in the road and brick crosswalks. Might any of these help, Lambi?

Griffin NoName

We have all of those everywhere and they all have the opposite effect of traffic calming. (encourages traffic jerking too). Displaces the killing fields to the first patch of free road, where the exasperated motorist can let of steam :mrgreen:
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Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith

I say a regular application of roofing nails to the offensive roadway is a sure-fire cure for speeders....

....not to mention it boosts the local flat-fix economy in a big way.  ::) :mrgreen:
Sometimes, the real journey can only be taken by making a mistake.

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Sibling Lambicus the Toluous

Quote from: Opsanus tau on June 16, 2008, 04:01:23 PM
This is an interesting discussion. I live in a little old straight-shot American town and we are currently working on a comprehensive plan to underground the old overhead wires and re-do the old (ceramic!) water and sewer lines. We are attempting to do a little design work as long as we have to tear up the roads, anyway, and have been investigating ways to slow down the traffic.

We have discussed speed bumps, speed humps, traffic circles (heaven forbid, but they do slow people down) and visual cues such as narrowed areas in the road and brick crosswalks. Might any of these help, Lambi?

Maybe.  For traffic calming to work properly, it really has to be selected and designed individually; one-size-fits-all approaches tend not to work that well.

There are a number of measures that are possible.  Here's a guide to some of the more common ones: http://www.trafficcalming.org/measures2.html

The biggest thing you have to consider is what you're trying to accomplish.  Traffic calming is meant to address one of two problems: volumes or speeds.  Different measures are used for both.

Also, a big factor with traffic calming measures is user familiarity, so often, a municipality will create a traffic calming strategy to ensure consistency throughout their area of responsibility; a town-wide program of speed tables/humps/lumps/etc. or traffic circles might work, but a single isolated installation that's the only instance of some traffic calming measure usually won't.

If you're concerned with speeds on your street, talk to your town/city/county roads/works/engineering department (as appropriate - different places organize things differently).  Hopefully they have some procedures in place to assess the need for traffic calming and to implement a solution if a problem exists.  If not, you could try pushing for one through your elected representatives... here's one list of traffic calming programs: http://www.trafficcalming.org/programs.html - you may be able to find one near you that could be used as a model.

Alpaca

Aren't traffic circles generally a good thing to use in place of four-way stops and mildly-trafficked intersections with lights? I was under the impression that they kept things moving along slowly but smoothly, and also saved gas by letting people avoid stopping and accelerating.
There is a pleasure sure to being mad
That only madmen know.
--John Dryden

Sibling Lambicus the Toluous

Quote from: Alpaca on June 17, 2008, 05:11:07 AM
Aren't traffic circles generally a good thing to use in place of four-way stops and mildly-trafficked intersections with lights? I was under the impression that they kept things moving along slowly but smoothly, and also saved gas by letting people avoid stopping and accelerating.

I'm not sure of the terminology elsewhere, but at least in North America, what you're describing is a roundabout, and a traffic circle is something else.

Roundabouts are usually significant size.  The main distinguishing feature of a roundabout is that vehicles on the roundabout have right-of-way over vehicles entering; this means that the roundabout always keeps flowing (unless there's a queue on one of the leaving roads that backs up all the way into the roundabout, but that'd mess up a conventional signalized intersection, too).  Usually, roundabouts have yield signs on the entries, so incoming traffic doesn't have to stop if the way is clear.

Traffic circles can be anything from very small (sometimes even just a large planter placed in the middle of an intersection on a local residential street) to very large (e.g. Columbus Circle in New York City).  The term "traffic circle" is generally pretty broad; it can apply to any round-ish arrangement that has multiple streets feeding into it.  Typically, though, a small traffic circle may still have stop signs on the incoming streets, and traffic on a large one may be signalized, or may have to yield right-of-way to cars entering.

At a small scale as a traffic calming measure, they basically constitute an obstacle for traffic to maneuver around.  It's a way to make the street so inconvenient to cut-through traffic that they find some other route.

... which brings up another potential problem with traffic calming: if you implement it piecemeal instead of according to an overall strategy, you may end up just shifting the problem to some other street rather than actually solving it.

Opsa

Our town is so small that there's really only one straight shot through it, which is Main Street. Any detours are rather meandering and would not save anyone time. I think we're planning on brick crosswalks and narrowing areas. There was some talk about a small traffic circle but we're really even too small for that, at least in the downtown area, where most buildings have no front lawns at all.

I should think that in your case, some decent permanent speed bumps or humps would work well. I mean the kind made out of actual solid asphalt paved right into the road surface.

Here's another thought: what about a roughened surface- like that stuff they put on highways to wake people up as they approach bridges and lights- you know that surface that vibrates your vehicle so hard that you snap to attention? If you go over it slowly does it do that? Could something like that be used to discourage speeders?

Sibling Lambicus the Toluous

Quote from: Opsanus tau on June 17, 2008, 04:23:23 PM
Here's another thought: what about a roughened surface- like that stuff they put on highways to wake people up as they approach bridges and lights- you know that surface that vibrates your vehicle so hard that you snap to attention? If you go over it slowly does it do that? Could something like that be used to discourage speeders?
I've heard of rumble strips being tried in isolated cases for speed control as a traffic calming measure... and in every case I'm familiar with, the residents complained so much about the noise that the road authority eventually went back and took the rumble strips out again.   ;)

Sibling Lambicus the Toluous

#27
Quote from: Opsanus tau on June 17, 2008, 04:23:23 PM
Our town is so small that there's really only one straight shot through it, which is Main Street. Any detours are rather meandering and would not save anyone time. I think we're planning on brick crosswalks and narrowing areas. There was some talk about a small traffic circle but we're really even too small for that, at least in the downtown area, where most buildings have no front lawns at all.

I should think that in your case, some decent permanent speed bumps or humps would work well. I mean the kind made out of actual solid asphalt paved right into the road surface.

Oh... so is it traffic calming along Main Street that you're after?

It's possible.  For instance, I've seen some strategies where speed tables are used to provide semi-decorative crosswalks; that way your traffic calming becomes a tradeoff between pedestrians and vehicles, rather than just a deadweight loss to vehicles.  Of course, this assumes that your downtown core is walkable to begin with; if it isn't, then people won't use the crosswalks no matter how nice you make them.

And there are some options that work better in downtown cores: for instance, on-street parking will slow through vehicles down somewhat while at the same time provide benefit to Main Street businesses and their customers.  Sometimes, even a big decorative "Welcome to Downtown Whereverville" at either end of the main drag will tweak driver's brains to say "hey - this is a small town Main Street!  I should stop driving like it's a rural highway!".

If your Main Street is a through highway run by some higher authority than your individual town (i.e. it's a County, State or US route), then there may be other issues at play as well, and a whole set of their policies that have to be dealt with.

Again, it's important to deal with each situation on its own merits.  For traffic calming to be effective, it has to take into account the characteristics of the specific location where it's being proposed.

Edit: the narrowings that you mentioned (a.k.a. "bump-outs") are another option, and they're generally considered preferable to speed bumps/humps/lumps/tables and traffic circles.  Usually, the preference is to only install measures that physically affect the vehicles (i.e. by bouncing them around or making them swerve) as a last resort.

Edit 2: if you want to freak out an American municipal planner, if and when they have a public meeting for all this in your town, say "Woonerf".   ;D

Alpaca

Quote from: Sibling Lambicus the Toluous on June 17, 2008, 06:59:00 PM
Edit 2: if you want to freak out an American municipal planner, if and when they have a public meeting for all this in your town, say "Woonerf".   ;D

During trips to the Netherlands, those have been lovely.

I have a feeling that many of the people in Tampa, Florida would have difficulty with the concept.
There is a pleasure sure to being mad
That only madmen know.
--John Dryden

Griffin NoName

I like the siigns that simply flash your speed at you. It's like being publicly shamed. Always make me slow down even when I'm within the speed limit (which of course is always).
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One approaches the journey's end. But the end is a goal, not a catastrophe. George Sand