Do Barbers Exist?

[Griffin NoName]

Explanation of why God allows pain and suffering, currently doing the rounds on the email circuit:

A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed.
As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation.
They talked about so many things and various subjects.
When they eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said:
"I don't believe that God exists."

"Why do you say that?" asked the customer.
"Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God doesn't exist.
Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people?
Would there be abandoned children?

If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain.
I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all of these things."
The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want to start an argument.
The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop.

Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard.
He looked dirty and unkempt. The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said to the barber:
"You know what? Barbers do not exist."
"How can you say that?" asked the surprised barber.
"I am here, and I am a barber. And I just worked on you!"
"No!" the customer exclaimed. "Barbers don't exist because
if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like that man outside."

"Ah, but barbers DO exist! That's what happens when people do not come to me."
"Exactly!" affirmed the customer. "That's the point! God, too, DOES exist!
That's what happens when people do not go to Him and don't look to Him for help.
That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world."


If you think God exists, send this to other people---
If you think God does not exist, delete it!

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

At first I didn't agree with the message's contention, but after further analysis I realized that the barber doesn't allow everybody into his business but those that he estimates will be capable and willing to pay the prices for the services rendered.

That would explain why the poor are -according to certain wealthy individuals- going to hell.

[beagle]

I think it misses the point of Epicurus's questions.  Why would a benign God create a World system in which it was possible to not go to the barber if that course of action was always bad for you?
The implication is that free will has a phenomenally high intrinsic value; but that would be an endorsement of Lucifer's revolt, unless it was a power you were untitled to hold, but never execute on pain of eternal punishment. In which case what is an unexecutable right worth? 

It makes complete sense in the fundamentalist shamanic tradition of "the Gods have visited this flood/earthquake on us because you are not showing them/me enough respect".

Fortunately my barber only ever talks about where I'm going on holiday; there's insufficient work to give him time to delve into religion.

[Sibling Chatty]

Of course, nobody brings up the  position that God may indeed exist, as do barbers, BUT free choice being a given, there are those that will choose to visit the barber, but not believe in God, and choose to not do evil. There are those that choose to believe in God and do evil, there willl be hair of all lengths and beliefs all over the map, and of course...the evil that seem to NOT be manmade? How do we know? Nope, it's enough to attribute all long hair to there NOT being any barbers!

[beagle]

But if God is omniscient and omnipotent nothing is a given. Free choice was put there or allowed to be there by God.  Everything sentient could have been kept in a state of permanent bliss for eternity, without the possibility of being exposed to choices that could harm it.
In our state of incomplete knowledge the handing out of free choice could be considered as negligent as letting children play with matches. Unless, of course, the gods themselves are circumscribed in their actions by certain rules, in which case are they gods?

[Sibling Chatty]

With all the angels dancing on pinheads, is it our responsibility to watch their feet, or to be sure our feet are where we want them to be?

[Griffin NoName]

Well, hey, you'all missed the essential flaw. Barbers only work on men's hair. Sometimes things are just too close up to see.

[Sibling Chatty]

True, a decent hairdresser would have avoided all these problems...

[beagle]

I suspect the mail was written by a woman. Only the female of the species would naturally put gods and hairdressers in the same paragraph.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Think about it, god as the guy with a knife in you throat. Comforting, verrry comforting.

[ivor]

So god makes people sick so they will come to him?  Nice....

It seems that Rastafarians don't believe in barbers.  Do barbers believe in Rastafarians?

[Sibling Chatty]

So god makes people sick so they will come to him?  Nice....

Some people of some religions may well believe that. Some people of other religions believe that God will eventually allow the faithful to become gods on their own planets. (Mormons) Or that God only listens and cares if you wear these funny underwear. (Mormons, again.)

There's this HUGE brush that keeps on being used.

Of course, it's got to be OK to do that, because--we ALL know that every Christian MUST believe the exact same irrational, stupid, ignorant, superstitious things. Just like every atheist/agnostic/freethinker/Bright--- Anybody see a problem here?

I'm really beginning to see one...

[Bluenose]

Being serious for a moment.

Going back to the original proposition, I assume that it was originally intended as a joke and I can see the funny side no problem.  The problem I have is when people use "logic" like this seriously.  What they forget is that whilst analogies can be useful for explanation and helping people deal with difficult topics, you cannot prove anything by analogy.  Just because one part of a situation is analogous to another situation does not mean that a consequence of that part implies a similar consequence in the other situation.  Nevertheless I have heard countless times people using such analogies to "prove" some point of religious dogma or for that matter trying to "prove" some erroneous point in a scientific discussion.  It frustrates the hell out of me that these people cannot see that their little "proof" is nothing of the sort.

Must quieten down.  Think taddy thoughts.  Accept that people have every right to be ignorant didactic ideologues if they want.  Tolerate non-arguments put by those not equipped to have a rational dicussion.  Come talk to my siblings where I can get some sense...

[ivor]

It didn't sound like a joke to me.  It sounded like more than a few Southern Baptist sermons to me, equally "warm, fuzzy," and flawed.  I wouldn't take it too seriously.

[The Meromorph]

My response to the original email?

Sweeney Todd...