iPOD advice

[Griffin NoName]

I have decided my life won't be complete til I acquire an iPOD.

I can't make head or tail of what's on offer.

I suspect it is the iPOD Nano, but dont really get the difference between models. And then there is size? Not to speak of colours.

After that, I want a docking station with speakers.

And finally, can the iPOD be connected to my Windows PC to transfer audio?

I am sure one of our techno-widows will happily supply me with everything I need to know and a great deal I don't

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

I got that way a bit back.

Firstly, if you go with a name-brand, such as Apple or Microsoft, be prepared for [very hollow voice] Software Invasion.   Both iPod and Zune require special software to get the thing to talk to your PC.

Neither software plays nice with other software, but from the various reviews & such, iTunes is worse than Zune, but only barely.

As for brands not of the above?  They use various methods to talk between your PC and the device.  The Sanyo brand of players seems to have the least fuss, though-- the player needs no special 'wares, just connect it, and your PC thinks it's a USB thumb drive of some sort.  Put your music however you like in the 'MUSIC' folder, and the player'r'l see it fine.

I have all three of the above, as hardware.  I managed to hack the iPod (well, not really a 'hack' per say, I just found an alternative) with an open source alternative to iTunes, WinAmp with an iPod extension.  Works a treat, and WinAmp does not insist on scanning my entire PC looking for music to mangle (unlike iTunes, which seems to).  Alas, I could not hack the Zune successfully (I tried) but I managed to quarenteen Zune ware to keep to a single dedicated folder-- and yes, Zune mangled any files I put in there, without so much as a by your leave. 

I've spent weeks massaging my MP3's names, tags, sorting methods, etc, and I was highly pissed that Zune would just mangle it all around.  So a duplicate of my files, in a separate folder for the Zune player. WinAmp politely leaves your tags intact, if you tell it to.

As for the players themselves.  Finding docks for the Sansa was an exercise in futility-- I could not find even one.  That player is on the shelf, now, it's only 8gig anyway.  I did not like the tiny screen either.  The interface was simple, I'll give it that.  Few options to be confusing.  Never tried it's radio-- I didn't buy it to be a radio.

Between the Zune and my iPod classic, I like the Zune's menu better.  It's more intuitive (no surprise, iPod is anti-intuitive apple), and appears to have more customizable settings than the 'pod.  But either one works quite well for playing music.  Battery life is good enough for either-- either one lasts all day between charges.  The Zune has one gotcha, though-- it never shuts off, but goes into 'sleep' mode instead.  Sleep mode will drain the battery in a few days of the device being ignored.  So you have to press two buttons to actually shut it fully off-- dumb, but typical of Microsoft.

My Zune is a 30gig, and my iPod is a 130 (or 160, I forget).

Accessories for the Zune are scarce as hen's teeth-- but Amazon carries a nice selection if you don't mind waiting.  Accessories for the iPod?  You can't throw a brick into an electronics section of any store-- even the odd finicky shops-- without hitting two or three or more iPod accessories.

There are literally hundreds of iPod docking devices-- most of which hook directly to the proprietary Apple connector on the bottom.  Including most flavors of 'pod-- check the package.   But, I'd also check on-line reviews at, say, Amazon, for how well these are implemented for the various different 'pods-- some brands do better than others.  In fact?  Some brands, if you don't have a classic profile device, don't work well at all-- the various spacers/shoes they give are rubbish, and your 'pod ends up hanging by it's bottom bracket.  Fine if it's just sitting there on a shelf, but rubbish if you want to carry it about, or even shift it aside-- the 'pod moves, and disconnects from the dock.

I currently have three types of docks for my 'pod (which is why I put up with it's annoying menu system...) I have a little boom box dock-- it looks exactly like one of those portable CD player thingys, except there's a sort of hollow space at the front, with a docking jack at the bottom.  My 'pod fits neatly onto that jack, and I can play my tunes like a CD boom box.  It's not as loud as I'd like (I bought it for outdoor construction projects) but it just works.  The box was from Best Buy-- house brand.  Best of all, it's powered by a wall-wart via a jack.  So a quality car adapter powers it, too-- which means I can power it from my portable power tools' rechargeable batteries if I like.

The second dock is really a set of cables:  the main thingy plugs into a cigarette lighter, and has three buttons on it's top-- back, play/pause and forward.  A music out jack, and a wire with an iPod-plug completes it.  The wire/plug goes directly into my 'pod, bypassing it's delicate headphone jack.   The music out jack on the main device, using a plug-to-plug wire, goes into the input jack on my truck's main stereo.  This way, I can play my tunes via my truck's built-in radio.  Nice.  I use this most of all.   It just works.  The 3 buttons on the device work even if the 'pod's "hold" switch is on-- preventing objects from messing with the pod itself (and I can put it underneath junk, to hide it from would-be thieves view through the windows.  Yes, my truck is always junked up with stuff-- it's a work truck, after all.   ) .  That is, I can play/pause my music at need-- very handy if the phone rings, or if I'm running into a store for supplies-- I just pause it, run in, and on my return, my music continues right where it left off.   This dock is by Griffin brand-- which I've always found satisfactory.  Not cheap, though-- set me back $50US.

My third dock is also by Griffin, is an FM 'feeder' type.  It, too plugs into the cigarette jack, and directly into the bottom of the 'pod.  Alas, no buttons, so you use the 'pod's controls-- which means leaving the 'hold' switch off, and you have to take care not to let the buttons get bumped by stuff.  Pause means picking up the pod itself, and hitting pause...

The FM radio part takes your music, and sends a signal directly to your FM radio-- works well enough, except where I live, there're not really any blank spots on the dial-- too much garbage stations about (syrupy religious or other crap-- we now have like 10 spanish-only stations....  how're these goons gonna learn to fit in, if they always immerse themselves in their own little worlds? One wonders....) ((and yes, I realize the irony of the previous more than I'd like.... ))

In any case, if by chance, you find a blank spot on the FM dial?  It works very, very well.  If the spot has a radio station trying to compete?  The dock overrides the station's signal-- mostly.  You'll get static or static-like interference when your music is not loud or strong.   Kinda annoying.   But this one was only $12US so it went into my car-- which doesn't have an input jack anyhow....  stupid GM radio... and, at $12, I bought two...

_________________

As for those players without a display?  If you gave me one, I'd 're-gift' it immediately.  Wouldn't have one-- rubbish, in my not-in-the-least humble opinion.  I've had roughly 6 or 8 players over the years-- my first, a Creative player that came with a whopping 8 megabyte compact flash card as media...  that's right-- MEGA-byte, not gig.   It held most of a single album.  I quickly upped it to 32meg, then 64meg.  It had a simple black-and-white display, and it did not understand sub-directories, nor did it natively play MP3's-- you had to convert.  It did understand the much lamented Microsoft WM format, which I spent a couple weeks converting to (keeping my higher-quality MP3 intact, of course).  It wasn't bad, for what it was-- you simply put the compact flash card into any old reader (it came with one) and loaded your files, linear fashion, onto it-- I wrote some software to do that, and re-number them to play in the order I wanted-- I used a base 36 system-- all the numbers, and all the lower-case letters.  Worked well, that way, I only needed 2 places in the limited display for the song's number...  those were heady days. 

I've had any number of el-cheapo players-- mostly rubbish.   I've lost or misplaced those, since.   The main reasons were:  too small display, all music in one directory (clogging it, making searching difficult), slow to load (many had USB 1.1 interface, which is sloooooow), limited storage, etc. 

I suppose I'm one of those that hates to choose what I'm going to listen to beforehand-- I like to be able to choose from among my 20gigs of music, *any* artist (that I own), when I finish with one.  So either of my main players do that:  both the Zune and the iPod classic contain my whole collection.   I don't have to choose, until I'm ready to listen.

And that's worth every penny.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Ipod is a proprietary system by that fruit company, which forces you to use a very nagging piece of software called itunes* which is the only (legal) way to transfer music from and to the branded gizmo, and the store uses an encrypted proprietary format (AAC) that prevents you from moving the music from your device to more than one computer. The battery frequently dies after a year or two and given that there is no easy way to replace it, you get a designer made paperweight after that. Perhaps the only reason a sane person would want that, is because of the accessories (like the docking stations) which avoid the use of unsightly cables while listening to your music at home.

As the official Apple Hater^TM in this forum I can't in good faith recommend the purchase of one of those things, but if you must, ask Bob who apparently has been able to survive the process.

*it works both in Mac and Windows. Some tools (again, ask Bob) may allow you to bypass the dreaded thing.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Ipod is a proprietary system by that fruit company, which forces you to use a very nagging piece of software called itunes* which is the only (legal) way to transfer music from and to the branded gizmo, and the store uses an encrypted proprietary format (AAC) that prevents you from moving the music from your device to more than one computer. The battery frequently dies after a year or two and given that there is no easy way to replace it, you get a designer made paperweight after that. Perhaps the only reason a sane person would want that, is because of the accessories (like the docking stations) which avoid the use of unsightly cables while listening to your music at home.

As the official Apple Hater^TM in this forum I can't in good faith recommend the purchase of one of those things, but if you must, ask Bob who apparently has been able to survive the process.

*it works both in Mac and Windows. Some tools (again, ask Bob) may allow you to bypass the dreaded thing.

You and me......! 

I've heard about the battery issues-- but I've also explored replacement.  I'm not shy about opening an out-of-warranty item, even if it did set me back $200US initially.   Heck, I've hacked $400 cell phones, to fix issues...

My theory is:  if it's broke anyhoo, what's to loose? 



There's any number of replacement batteries for the classic series, too-- same for the Zune players.  In fact?  There are entire sites dedicated to repair of the Zunes-- you can, literally, get all the parts you need to assemble a completely new Zune, if you like.... ! 

[beagle]

I've got a Creative Zen 30GB somethingorother. It's bigger and heavier and less stylish than an iPod, but has worked faultlessly for a few years despite being bounced around at the bottom of various bags and cases. It did come with its own software, but Windows Media Player seems to understand it anyway. Got it instead of an iPod because at the time the Apple ones didn't do video or radio in theirs (I assume they do now, but don't know for sure).

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

My creative doesn't do video (this is an old model) and originally had a 30GB laptop HD, which I replaced for an 80GB. I believe they fixed the firmware that prevented it from having more than a fixed amount of files so now I could replace the HD for a 200 GB if I wanted. Nevertheless I find myself using my phone as an mp3 player more and more often.
---
Griff, must it do video? Is it only for the fancy dock? if you don't mind using a cable...
---
In any case, how much media (music, videos) do you have and like to have on the thing? The small ones rarely go over 32GB so if you need more space you'll need one of the big ones that can do 120 - 250GB or if you really want some space there are some video gizmos (like the Archos) with a large screen and up to 500GB.

[Scriblerus the Philosophe]

I've had bad experiences with creative. Granted, I bought a refrub, but I fought with it constantly and then I managed to drop it. I have a sansa clip; GREAT sounds, very small and light, but only 4 gigs and no options (no playlists, no smart shuffle, no nothing!). I need at least eight. I'm in the market for another mp3 player (I'm looking at a Latte Espresso right now among  other things) and I'll post my results if you haven't bought an ipod yet, Griff.

[Griffin NoName]

OMG! This is so complicated. I see hasty decisions are out.

[Scriblerus the Philosophe]

http://reviews.cnet.com/mp3-player-buying-guide/
^Should be helpful. I always cross check the reviews elsewhere, too, but it's a good place to start.

[Griffin NoName]

Thanks Scribs. Looks like a good summing up.

I am still confused about what I want.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Thanks Scribs. Looks like a good summing up.

I am still confused about what I want.

Perhaps this will help.

Make a list of how you plan to use the thing:  for example,

** Portable?  You'd need good battery life.
** Always docked?  You don't care about battery life.

Like that.

Any major brand will play MP3 files more than good enough.

List the features you *must* have, then try to find a player that best fits.

Size?  This would dictate how much music you have 'on-tap' at any given moment-- that is, you needn't choose beforehand which music you have, if your player contains all you own.

Portability?  This category would determine size, resistance to vibration, and how long between charges.

Number and availability of accessories?  This category would determine brand.  Obviously, iPod's win this one, hands-down.  But **all** of them will play through a standard 3.5mm headset jack, and with proper cables, through a stereo with an input.  3.5mm to 3.5mm cables are cheap and readily available, and most of the new boom-boxes have 3.5mm input jacks for just such a thing.  You could "roll your own" dock, so to speak, with any player out there.  But, you'd need a separate mains' power adapter for the player-- any major brand will have these if you search.

Ease of random musical selections?  For this category, a screen is a must, which eliminates all the super-tiny players-- no screen (such as many of the smaller iPod's).  If you don't care which song is playing next?  Save some bucks, and go for a screen-less model.

And so on-- you may have other things on the list, too-- such as easy to press buttons for larger fingers (very important for me, as my fingers are fatter than kids', and the smaller players are too difficult to use for me).

My best advice, if you can, is go to a store, and play with several different working models, to get a feel for the menu system. 

Forget the about the sound-- that's largely controlled by the headset/speakers anyway-- even the cheapest one plays well enough with quality 'phones.

But start writing down everything and anything you can think of that applies.

Then, sort them by rank, from most important to least.

....

Or, heck, just go out and buy the first one that's on sale-- likely as not, it'll work just fine.

[Aggie]

My advice is to start with the cheapest USB-drive semi-generic player you can get, and decide whether that suffices.

I just bought one for $15, only 2 GB but with the USB it's easy to load in whatever music I expect to want for the next few days.  I can also store files on the sucker in a pinch (have a NES emulator to run from the USB on my laptop when I need to kill time ).

If that is enough, why spend a hundred pounds?  If not, move up to something better and you still have a usable thumb drive.  I also am quaint enough to demand off-the-shelf replaceable batteries in my devices, AAA or AA specifically (although loading files works without batteries on this unit).

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Built-in battery vs AA/AAA vs removable Li-Ion is a curse/blessing to be considered:

If you get one of the smaller ones that use regular batteries you get the flexibility to buy a recharchable NiMH or regular off the shelf, but if you're not disciplined with the charging you can find yourself buying lots of regular batteries.

The ones with a built-in battery need to be regularily charged like a phone, the down sides are: no way to use it if you don't have your charger handy, and a brick if the battery fails.

Those with a removable Li Ion need to be recharged (as above) but can have their life extended if the battery fails by buying a new one. Frequently these are the bigger models.

If you don't mind burning $15-$25 get a basic one as Aggie suggests and move upwards if needed.

[Aggie]

I bought mine specifically for an 11-hour bus ride, so the easily replaceable battery was a must (i.e. no way to charge on the fly).  Re: re-chargeables, it's just as easy to keep a spare set charged as to remember to plug the device in, IMHO.

OTOH, I've seen some portable battery chargers that can top up a device (incl phones) on the go - these are essentially battery packs I think, but some are fairly cheap.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

I have one for my phone (standard mini USB connector) that is powered by 2 AA batteries.

An alternative with the big ones with removable Li-Ion is to buy a spare and keep it charged for those cases.