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Messages - Maelin

#1
Spirituality / Re: Conceding Non-Consensus
July 07, 2007, 03:43:15 AM
I have to say I disagree with the idea that "I am allowed to disagree with you but I'm not allowed to try to persuade you that you're wrong." I don't think that's a very good definition of tolerance nor a good way to live, since it accomplishes nothing.

I am more inclined to believe that the best attitude in life is this:

I am allowed to disagree with you, and I am allowed to try to persuade you that you're wrong, but only if I do it in a respectful and rational manner and only if I respond in that respectful and rational manner when others do the same to me. In both cases I must remain open-minded about the possibility that I am wrong.

Debate and argument are how we humans can attempt to use disagreement to come closer to truth. I hold that "believing things that are true and not believing things that are untrue" to be fairly important goals, as surely every rational person should. So when two people who disagree on some issue debate it, the goal is to establish which (if either) of these two people is correct. To try to find the truth. A proper, open-minded debate is one in which both people explain their justifications for their beliefs and in which, hopefully, one or both of the parties eventually say, "Oh, I see, I hadn't realised that," and change their belief to something closer to the truth.

It all falls down when people forget the very important "respectful and rational manner" and when they fail to keep an open mind about whether they might be wrong. This is why you get bickering and shouting instead of respectful debate. This is the lack of tolerance showing through - the failure to tolerate disagreement, the failure to tolerate mature debate. As tolerant Toadfish, it is our duty to ensure that when we are presented with ideas that conflict with our own, then if we wish to debate them, that we do so in that respectful and rational manner, and with open minds.

The world would be a happier place if everyone lived in such a way.
#2
Science / Re: Creationist e-cards
July 03, 2007, 03:26:38 AM
Oh no, certainly not funny in the way that they intended. I find them funny in the way that Chick tracts are. For those who don't know, Chick tracts are comic strips by a guy called Jack Chick, about all kinds of things like the evils of homosexuality, how playing Dungeons & Dragons leads to satanism and hell, and how accepting Jesus is the only way to heaven. The idea is apparently to leave them lying around in places where your less-than-properly-faithful friends will find them, and then your friends will miraculously discover Jesus. Many people read them for their unintentional humour value. You can find the complete set here.

After all, you have to laugh when you see this kind of stuff. You'd go insane otherwise.
#3
Science / Re: Creationist e-cards
July 02, 2007, 06:26:34 AM
Wow, those were fantastically funny. Almost as good as Chick tracts. I particularly liked the one where the Devil pops out from behind the 'Adult fairy tales' book and says, "I love this stuff!"

It seems really childish to mock an idea in this way, by misrepresenting it so ridiculously. Do typical creationists really have this poor a grasp on the process of evolution, or do they just pretend to so it's easier to ridicule?

Maelin
#4
Start Here, Please / Ahoy, everybody
July 01, 2007, 03:17:39 PM
Hey everyone. I was recommended to come have a look at this site, so here I am. I wasn't on Vengenza, but I know of it. I hear there was some kind of Incident which was all very interesting and so forth.

Anyway, better introduce myself. I'm 20 years old, I live in Melbourne, Australia, and am currently studying pure maths at university, in my third year now. I'm also an atheist; self-converted from Catholic when I was about 13 or 14, and apparently I fit into "secular humanism" pretty well, although I've never looked into it in any great detail.

I look forward to stimulating discussion and good times!