Toadfish Monastery

Open Water => Serious Discussion => Politics => Topic started by: Swatopluk on August 30, 2010, 08:08:32 PM

Title: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Swatopluk on August 30, 2010, 08:08:32 PM
http://www.alternet.org/world/148016/how_to_kill_goyim_and_influence_people%3A_israeli_rabbis_defend_book%27s_shocking_religious_defense_of_killing_non-jews_%28with_video%29/

Far be it from me to paint all Jews with the broad brush or even those in the Israeli government but there are some the world would be a significantly better place without. And even hardened as I am from constant media exposure about their deeds, this article managed to get beyond the usual apathy of "They are evil? Next you will tell me that there are circumstances where water can occasionally display certain aspects of wetness."
Btw, I am of the opinion that the official High Rabbinate (or whatever it is called) is an abomination in itself. They still prevent civil marriage (so many Jews choose to travel abroad because they don't get a marriage licence from these guys or refuse to bow to their outrageous demands) and are by now also in the business of denying non-ultraorthodox Jews their birthright e.g. by declaring Jewish marriages in the US invalid, if the rabbi  conducting it does not meet their approval. Offspring of those 'invalid' marriages are considered bastards that in Israel would lack significant rights (and are often even denied citizenship despite that right is enshirned in the Israeli constitution). Likely not original intent by the founders of Israel but by now clearly perverted into a new edition of the Nuremberg laws. Add to that the volontary vice squads that try to prevent Rassenschande between Jews (esp. females) with non-Jews that terrorize some areas and Israel will sooner or later not even need foreign enemies but will self-destruct.
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Scriblerus the Philosophe on August 30, 2010, 09:20:05 PM
Oh, the irony.
QuoteLior's enthusiasm for Shapira's tract stems from his own eliminationist attitude toward non-Jews. For example, while Lior served as the IDF's top rabbi, he instructed soldiers: "There is no such thing as civilians in wartime... A thousand non-Jewish lives are not worth a Jew's fingernail!" Indeed, there are only a few non-Jews whose lives Lior would demand to be spared. They are captured Palestinian militants who, as he once suggested, could be used as subjects for live human medical experiments.

I would have hoped they would've learned from the Nazis' example...
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on August 30, 2010, 10:27:45 PM
I heard this on NPR not too long ago and I'm as speechless now as I was then. I wish to believe that we are talking of a tiny minority, and that their influence is minor, but I don't know and I'm not to hopeful about it.
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: The Meromorph on August 31, 2010, 04:56:15 AM
What? You thought the non-killing, non-stealing, non-false-witnessing etc. were meant to refer to not doing those things to gentiles ?

You should read the whole book...
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Griffin NoName on August 31, 2010, 07:18:15 PM
Quote from: Swatopluk on August 30, 2010, 08:08:32 PM
...................... are by now also in the business of denying non-ultraorthodox Jews their birthright e.g. by declaring Jewish marriages in the US invalid, if the rabbi  conducting it does not meet their approval.

The actual test is whether the parents of the bride and groom, both sides, got married themselves in an orthodox synagogue. If they did not, then the couple cannot marry in an orthodox synagogue and therefore are not recognized as married because they got married elsewhere. This is true worldwide and always has been. It's like pyramid marketing :mrgreen:



Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Darlica on August 31, 2010, 08:56:33 PM
It's stuff like this that makes me not believe in organised religion at all.

I've seen plenty of stuff lately that makes me think that there should be a "legal" age for becoming a part of a church or other forms of communions. And that that one probably should be set higher than all the other "leagal" ages...

People shouldn't be brought in to stuff like this other than by their own free will.
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Swatopluk on August 31, 2010, 09:53:18 PM
One reason for baptizing babies is to have them on the hook before they can make an informed decision. For the same reason confirmation  shifted to lower ages. The other reason for baby baptism is of course St.Augustine's extreme theology that anyone not baptized goes to hell, including unborn that died in the womb (=> traditional reason #1 to oppose abortion; the fetus goes to hell).
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Griffin NoName on September 01, 2010, 02:02:22 AM
Wasn't life hard enough without inventing religion?
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Scriblerus the Philosophe on September 01, 2010, 02:17:51 AM
Quote from: Swatopluk on August 31, 2010, 09:53:18 PM
One reason for baptizing babies is to have them on the hook before they can make an informed decision. For the same reason confirmation  shifted to lower ages. The other reason for baby baptism is of course St.Augustine's extreme theology that anyone not baptized goes to hell, including unborn that died in the womb (=> traditional reason #1 to oppose abortion; the fetus goes to hell).
Confirmation moved up. I was eighteen when I was confirmed; my mother was about eight or nine.

/pedantic
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Swatopluk on September 01, 2010, 06:47:03 AM
That must be rather recent. Around here it is usually 14 for protestants and several years earlier for catholics. And I meant went down from when it was instituted to where it is now (or where it was when I was that age).
Btw, confirmation hasbecome in my experience a case of pure bribe. I know exactly 1 person that refused confirmation and thus  (I presume) had to go without the usual mountain of presents.
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on September 01, 2010, 03:15:57 PM
Presents for confirmation? I did the thing to marry (talk about bribe ::)).

In theory it was supposed to be done by an adult (as opposed to the 1st communion which is done as a child).

Meh, at this point I see it as a multilevel marketing scheme more than anything else.
:barf:
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Swatopluk on September 01, 2010, 03:35:20 PM
Well, it was so succesful that communists adopted it for their equivalent ceremonies (like the Jugendweihe in the GDR). This of course included the proper clothing.
Btw, I always found it ridiculous to see little children at communist state acts pledging stuff they could clearly not understand (normal children that age rarely use words like 'imperialist-monopolcapitalist forces'  or "cowardly provocateurs bend on the corruption* of our socialist fatherland the German Democratic Republic" in my experience).

*Zersetzung
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Scriblerus the Philosophe on September 01, 2010, 07:24:20 PM
I got some money from an aunt, and I don't think I would have gotten anything at all if I hadn't had to stay the night at her place. Nothing from anyone else. Which is fine, since I only did it to keep my mother happy and to keep her thinking I was Catholic.

I think it's a product of Vatican II, maybe?
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: pieces o nine on September 02, 2010, 06:32:08 AM
Quote from: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)
Presents for confirmation? I did the thing to marry (talk about bribe ::)).

In theory it was supposed to be done by an adult (as opposed to the 1st communion which is done as a child).

Meh, at this point I see it as a multilevel marketing scheme more than anything else.
:barf:

I knew a rather traditional Episcopalian priest who occasionally surprised and pleased me with his observations. He challenged a peer on baptizing babies and confirming elementary school children (because the latter is when "the fullness of the Holy Spirit" descends upon the person) by asking, "What part of the Holy Spirit did my children *not* receive at Baptism?"
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Swatopluk on September 02, 2010, 08:41:51 AM
The grace was installed at baptism but confirmation is necessary to get the password and access to customer service.
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on September 02, 2010, 04:10:51 PM
You mean to be able to confess the most egregious sins to the priest?
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Swatopluk on September 02, 2010, 05:10:13 PM
Of course, and the licence fee has to be paid on a regular base too. Otherwise your access will be cut and you will be incommunicado.
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on September 02, 2010, 06:18:49 PM
In or Ex?
;)
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Swatopluk on September 02, 2010, 06:22:42 PM
The Exquisition is worse than the Inquisition (the two arms of the Omnian Quisition)
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on September 02, 2010, 07:22:19 PM
But they Inquired with Exquisite detail...
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Swatopluk on September 02, 2010, 07:26:40 PM
But the results would be more fitting for the National Enquirer
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: pieces o nine on September 03, 2010, 06:46:51 AM
Either way, *far* too inquisitive!


:D
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Swatopluk on September 03, 2010, 08:30:34 AM
Back to seriousness: What are the chances of the current peace talks given the circumstances?
One thing is for sure, a failure will be blamed (as usual) 100% on the 'unreasonable' Palestinians by the 'serious people'.
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on September 03, 2010, 12:27:37 PM
Nah, it will be blamed on Obama, everything is his fault, remember?
::) ::) ::)

My take is that these talks have a probability of success between being hit by lightning and a Tunguska incident give or take. Israel will not stop the settlements and Abbas already said that the moment settlements resume he will walk out. Given that Netanyahu is in power with a coalition that includes the fundies from the top of this thread there is a 99.999% chance of resuming the settlements.

Talk about an empty exercise.  >:(
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Swatopluk on September 03, 2010, 12:49:23 PM
A Tunguska incident in Jersualem might me just what we need and it might swing some people if suddenly lighning struck some of the extremists out of a blue sky.

Edit: I fear the attacks on Obama would be even greater in case of success for 'selling out our allies*' and sabotaging Armageddon.

*iirc Israel has no formal treaty of alliance with the US
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith on September 03, 2010, 05:00:30 PM
Quote from: Swatopluk on September 03, 2010, 12:49:23 PM
*iirc Israel has no formal treaty of alliance with the US

Yeah.  We just give'em billions of $ out of the "goodness" of our hearts, then?

::)


In the voice of Yosemite Sam:  "Ah hates politicians, Ah really do".

Go to 3:30 in for the quote... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOUhGcsHqDM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOUhGcsHqDM)
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Swatopluk on September 03, 2010, 08:31:56 PM
The US gave and gives lots of dough to lots of people of questionable character and loyalty without the need for such silly things as treaties (that would have to get past both houses of congress also).
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on September 03, 2010, 09:16:20 PM
The Taliban, Osama Bin Laden, Pol Pot and Manuel Noriega are in the short list, IIRC.
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Swatopluk on September 03, 2010, 09:24:55 PM
Ironically it was the red Vietnamese that made an end of Pol Pot's rule
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on September 03, 2010, 09:33:24 PM
While the west helped him through Thailand.  >:(
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Swatopluk on September 03, 2010, 09:38:02 PM
Hey, it's far cheaper to support someone who wants to turn back to the stone age than to bomb him there.
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Griffin NoName on September 04, 2010, 02:24:58 AM
If two children squabble over a toy, one solution is to say neither can have it. Simple solutions are the best. No need for peace talks.
Title: Re: What lovely people! can we call them nazis now?
Post by: Swatopluk on September 04, 2010, 08:28:03 AM
That has been my solution for some time. Evacuate the whole country, then let the Chinese nuke all of it away. Turn the Temple Mount into a deep toxic lake.