A friend of mine has recently convinced me to join her on a little holiday excursion.
This will mean my leaving the United Kingdom for the first time in a decade.
This is undoubtedly a good thing, getting me out of house and seeing new and exciting things in exotic locales. On the down side this required me to update my passport as my old one showed an image of a spotty faced sixteen year old boy who hadn't taken to shaving his head yet.
And so I embarked upon my epic mission to get a new passport navigating system of outdated and often frankly crazy rules that are in place seemingly for no other reason than to discourage me from trying to leave the country at all. By the end I was beginning to suspect that it was all some cunning government ploy to make me holiday in locally and stimulate the economy.
I won't bore you with the entire tale instead lets focus on a few of the highlights.
When submitting your request to update your passport you are required to have your documentation counter signed by "an upstanding member of the community" who has known you for at least a year, is not related to you by blood or marriage and had a passport of his or her own.
I am given to understand this law was written back in the days of yore when it was common for everyone to know their local policeman by his first name. The list of acceptable people included police officers, court officials and doctors. Of course now a day's it's pretty unlikely you're going to know such a person. So the government made some changes.
Did they remove the absurd law?
Most certainly not. They simply expanded the list of acceptable professions. As such you can now have your local travel agent, funeral director, journalist, optician or professional photographer. Quite how the opinion of a funeral director puts the governments mind at ease when it comes to identity theft and international terrorism I do not know but there you have it.
Personally I found myself in the bizarre position of asking my next door neighbour, a retired primary school teacher who according to the government is an unimpeachable source, to counter sign my documents. So the deal is I look after her cat from time to time and in return she verifies my identity and allows me to leave the country.
Another point of note is that the passport photos much meet a surprisingly exacting standard. Some of it makes sense, I have no objection to taking off my glasses so my face is clearly visible, some of it does not. The thing that confused me was that I was required to take off my jacket for the photo..... for a photo which only includes my head and the very top of my shoulders. One can only assume that airport security rely on the line of my shoulders to identify me.
The photos of course must also be counter signed by my neighbour who is, in essence, required to write "Yep that him alright" on the back of each photo and sign and date them. Now you might think it would be acceptable to have her sign the paperwork one day and sign the photos the next once you have collected them from the developers, I know I did. You would of course be wrong and your passport application would be rejected. You see in the one day between signing, to the governments mind at least, anything could have happened I'm not entirely sure what their afraid of exactly but I can only assume it would involve a radical surgical transformation like that shown in the movie face off.
In the end after three attempts and two weeks of annoyance the government grudgingly allowed be the pleasure of giving them £87 for the privilege of a new passport with a rather more accurate picture contained there in.
Has anyone else found this to be a horribly silly and frustrating process?
Is it an altogether less crazy process in your homelands?
:o :o :o
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The process was painless both in the US (easy filing return by mail) and in Colombia (even if it may take a full morning of your life but you get your shiny new passport the same day). A different tale is the Colombian ID card which while relatively easy to file (with some oddities) may take months or even years to get to you.
As for the UK passport, I'm speechless.
Frankly I don't know how one manage to get a new passport in Sweden today, I know the Police is the authority that you go to and that they take the portrait and well as does the paperwork.
When I got my first passport I had to bring my mother and a ID certificate from the local tax office (in charge of our national registration). When I renewed the passport due to changing my surname I had to bring the old passport, a certificate from the local tax office (again) a valid ID with the new name and two new photos.
Actually looking it up, all you need these days are a valid ID, 400Sek (39.79€ or 52.91$) and a visit to one of the passport offices. Also you need to leave your fingerprints, they will be embedded in a chip in the passport.
If you don't have an ID (or fingers) things gets more complicated.
I once used to work for a certain department of the British Foreign Office (a long time ago). I can't tell you in detail why the regulations required the 'same day signing' and the exactly specified Photo, but Facial Recognition software does indeed use the length of the neck and the size and angle of the shoulders as part of its algorithm(s).
Also the person identifying the photograph as you tends very strongly to give a 'harder look' at the photograph if they are signing it at the same time as signing an 'official form'. It isn't an absolute guarantee, but it avoids making it very easy to supply a false photo of someone who merely strongly resembles you, but who a Facial Recognition process would not identify as the same person...
HTH.
They Id me by my neck length?
Remind me not to hunch my shoulders when I try to get on the plane.
Hmm I suppose I hadn't been thinking of things in terms of facial recognition software.
Perhaps because the last time I got on a plane the security check consisted of a guy looking at your photo squinting at you suspiciously then back at the photo.
Jokes on them anyway.
Rather than file out anouther form I just had my neighbour sign my extra photos and falcify the dates.
Muhahaha take that Bureaucracy
I can attest that the process is remarkably similar over in this part of the Commonwealth. Which reminds me - I need to update mine as well. Had been planning to head to the East (by flying west) but now am more likely to go South across the border for holidays. Not sure though - that place is kind of scary. :o
I think that "they" think that arcane and complex rules make it sufficiently difficult to get a passport that rogues won't bother.
Quote from: Darlica on April 30, 2010, 10:59:54 PM
When I got my first passport I had to bring my mother and a ID certificate from the local tax office...............
How did you prove it was your mother?
That is very silly. Very, very silly.
Quote from: Aggie on May 01, 2010, 01:19:49 AM
I can attest that the process is remarkably similar over in this part of the Commonwealth. Which reminds me - I need to update mine as well. Had been planning to head to the East (by flying west) but now am more likely to go South across the border for holidays. Not sure though - that place is kind of scary. :o
Come visit here! We have Yosemite and such.
It's a long time ago since I needed a passport (the Schengen treaty made it unnecessary in most of Europe). The last time I had it, it was essentially the same procedure as for the (mandatory) ID card. Then the photo had to show the left ear exposed*. The main clothing taboo was light shirts because the b/w photos would blur the line between skin and cloth. I had no ID or passport renewal since the introduction of biometric data and face recognition software. Now it's not head to the right anymore but full frontal and no smile. Not sure whether there is still the beard problem of the early days.
It usually took about four weeks between application and receiving the document. It depended mainly on the federal print shop, not the registration office (that would take just about a week).
*possibly a remant from the Nazi era when it was believed that Jews could be recognized by their earlobes even if they lacked the typical nose
Quote from: Griffin NoName on May 01, 2010, 04:20:02 AM
I think that "they" think that arcane and complex rules make it sufficiently difficult to get a passport that rogues won't bother.
Quote from: Darlica on April 30, 2010, 10:59:54 PM
When I got my first passport I had to bring my mother and a ID certificate from the local tax office...............
How did you prove it was your mother?
It's not the question about me proving she's my mother, rather, she confirming that I'm indeed her daughter.
And they'll take her word for it as she had an ID/pasport of her own. And when they look her up in the national registration files, I will show up as her daughter with my birth date and social security number, and current address.
In theory back then she could have walked in at the police station with another girl (I was 17 at the time) roughly my age and perhaps gotten away with it, as long as I didn't had I national ID issued to my name prior to that, only I've had an ID since I was about 15, she was there because I was a still minor.
These days, having had 2 passports, 3 ID cards and 2 driving licences over roughly the last twenty years issued in my name there is no chance of fooling
them. Of cause someone could produce an ID or passport in my name and with someone elses photo but it would only would work as long as they didn't had it checked out by the police or customs...
I sympathise, Ageis. We (UK citizens) needed new passports in 2008. We were OK for the "upstanding member of the community" because our dentist is also our neighbour and a close friend and had then known us for 12 years; not everyone finds it so easy.
What got me was having to pay for the photos. We always take our own for IDs, but for a passport you have to use some special paper - I forget the details, but it turned out easier to give in and pay. And mind you, they don't stick the photo on the passport these days; they scan it. So why won't any old paper do?
Hope you enjoy looking after the cat! :mrgreen:
BTW Aegis, where are you going?
Sweden perhaps? ;) :D
With a bit of hand holding I have been talked into going to Amsterdam for a long weekend.
The very idea of travel makes me nervous as hell mind you.
Being something of a hermit by nature it takes me a couple of hours to work up the nerve to go down the pub.
Never the less tickets are booked passport is, finally, in hand crippling nervousness or not I am going on holiday damn it and I'm going to have a bloody lovely time.
;D
You are going to have a nice time! :)
A big bunch of vibes for you, I hope the nervousness will settle as soon you are on your way.
:hug:
Have a wondeerful time. May all your apprehensions prove unfounded.
Please drop us a virtual postcard... :)
Once get going and you'll have a great time. I warn you, though, that you may get addicted to travel. :mrgreen:
I once had an interesting discussion with a friend residing in the UK, where he explained that no, you could not just open a bank account with any bank, you had to apply for it. With letters from the vicar and five gas bills and a sworn affidavit from your old schoolteacher and sundry other documentation added in, too. I was actually more or less stunned for 1d4 turns there. Naught as queer as folk, eh?
Once you have been to Amsterdam, why not make a detour to Münster, shanghai the lazy cat and make your way up to Sweden? ;)
Have a nice trip -I am looking forward to a report when you come back!
Seconded! ;D
Hey, while you're at it, why not pop into Melbourne? I know a great place for coffee!
Thanks for the good will all.
Ah Lindrom who do you think is trying to get me on a plane?
Sunjumper and I have a friend in common who happens to be passing through scotland on her way to amsterdam. she told me I was coming along. She may have threatened to show up on my door step and shanghi me in fact.
I'm given to understand sunjumper is getting similar treatment on his end.
:ROFL:
OK, so what do we need to do to get her to bring you two gentlemen to Stockholm... ;D
Darn it Alexander Skarsgård lives in Hollywood these days so I can't dangle the opportunity to run in to him on the metro as a potential carrot any longer... ;)
I'd tell you to come to sunny Florida but you have to hurry before our beaches are full of crude... >:(
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Enjoy Amsterdam and behave ;)
Quote from: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on May 02, 2010, 06:44:25 PM
Enjoy Amsterdam and behave ;)
Oh, the world has quite enough hāve's.
(rhymes with cave)Bealoof or bealert instead.
:D
Quote from: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on May 02, 2010, 06:44:25 PM
I'd tell you to come to sunny Florida but you have to hurry before our beaches are full of crude... >:(
I'll be down, sounds like work. ;) :P
Actually, I prefer handling salt-water issues, but that would be one heck of a cleanup.
My wife saw that they were looking for volunteers on the clean up and was asking me how long it takes to get there. I had to remind her that volunteers will be needed here soon enough. :( :'(
Quote from: Scriblerus the Philosophe on May 01, 2010, 06:50:53 AM
Quote from: Aggie on May 01, 2010, 01:19:49 AM
I can attest that the process is remarkably similar over in this part of the Commonwealth. Which reminds me - I need to update mine as well. Had been planning to head to the East (by flying west) but now am more likely to go South across the border for holidays. Not sure though - that place is kind of scary. :o
Come visit here! We have Yosemite and such.
(http://i-love-cartoons.com/snags/clipart/Looney-Tunes/Yosemite-Sam/Yosemite-Sam-1.jpg)
That's what ah'm worried about! More likely to be Yellowstone-ish than Yosemite-ish.
I got my passport redone last year. It wasn't too bad other than the special sizing rules for the photo. Had it been an adult first one it might have involved an interview. Got a new one within two days.
I think a lot of the rules are to stop someone arriving from somewheremadlytheocraticistan one day and hopping off on a British passport with exploding CKs the next, (though the "pillar of the community" chain of verification was there 30 years ago when I got my first one). Also to try and stop Mossad cloning them. Probably eating a pork chop in front of the official will be next on the requirements list.
It's always possible it will change under the Con/Lib Great Repeal Bill. Depends if you think verification by good reference is more or less intrusive than a huge who's who ID database I suppose.
As for the banks, I rather hanker for the days when they were run by Captain Mainwarings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Mainwaring) rather than Walkers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Joe_Walker) (obscure Brit reference), and a lot of the utility documentation stuff is now money laundering prevention. I thought that was EU rather than UK rules, but maybe not.
Quote from: beagle on May 19, 2010, 08:02:03 AM
Probably eating a pork chop in front of the official will be next on the requirements list.
Don't joke. In Austria the rightwingers* actually proposed that some time ago. Every citizen (hey, no discrimination then) would have to prove his true Austrianism by consuming a Wiener Schnitzel before witnesses once a year. That would be real reason for emigration from me** since I hate breaded meat. Bread yes, meat yes but not in this combination.
*those that at the time were part of the ruling coalition, not some fringe group
**If I were Austrian, which, thankwhateverhigherbeing, I am not.
If Marco Rubio* now supports the Oh-So-P(r)etty AZ "Papers, please" law, the vomitive schnitzel proposal sounds relatively** mild.
*He told his Cuban supporters in Miami that he didn't like it and a week later told his tea party buddies that he loved it.
**that doesn't mean I don't find it appalling anyway.
Send for Mr Willcock (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3129302.stm).
It was Winston Churchill who stopped the last ID card system and it will be the Tories again who cancel the current one here, aided by the hippies^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Liberal Democrats.
Quote from: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on May 19, 2010, 03:46:33 PM
If Marco Rubio now supports the Oh-So-P(r)etty AZ "Papers, please" law, the vomitive schnitzel proposal sounds relatively mild.
He told his Cuban supporters in Miami that he didn't like it and a week later told his tea party buddies that he loved it.
Well, officially the Cubans all want to leave the States to go back establishing a renewed RW dictatorship at home. They just wait for a new US president to have the balls to invade Cuba again. So, they should have no problem with the law (the proponents being roughly the same people that would also support a violent overthrow of Castrism).
Many things can be said of the old guard Cubans (Jorge Mas Canosa, et all) but I assure you they're not all stupid, in fact Charlie Christ who now is running as an independent is precisely rejecting the law, and I wouldn't be surprised if the DNC runs commercials in Spanish reminding all Cubans who they would be voting for (Kendrick Meek, the democrat seems a bit "meek" at the moment to run such campaign*).
*Actually the guy seems like a decent human being but his main problems are that he is relatively unknown and that he is black**.
**even white democrats have trouble voting for a black person in the north of FL. :-[
I forgot the ;) in my previous post obviously
Quote from: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on May 20, 2010, 12:48:25 PM
*Actually the guy seems like a decent human being but his main problems are that he is relatively unknown and that he is black**.
A decent human being? He has no chance in politics. ;)
Hey, I said he seems like a decent human being, no assurances can be made before a full psychiatric assessment for psychopathy and/or narcissistic personality.