Toadfish Monastery

I was reading Cleolinda's magnificent parody (http://community.livejournal.com/m15m/19551.html) of the movie, and some (http://oxymoronassoc.livejournal.com/462027.html) more (http://oxymoronassoc.livejournal.com/468348.html) from two (guys/gals?) and it came to me, could it be that Edward Cullen is a card carrying Republican? Perhaps a Mike Huckabee follower?

Or am I completely off the bat on this one?
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Another Cleolinda fan, right here at the Monastery! 
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/verkleidung/costumed-smiley-001.gif)

I LOVE Cleolinda. I read her recaps and immediately fell in love her. I believe your second link is two ladies. I also add this (awesomeawesomeawesome) parody to the list, called The Most Popular Book in the Whole World (http://xlormp.livejournal.com/553.html). I have rarely laughed so hard.

Quote from: excerptXlormp turned to look at me, and his eyes bugged out of his head. Literally. Not in that figurative way that most people talked about, but I mean his eyes really extended from his face and sort of goggled around in my general direction. I guessed that was probably part of being a space alien. It confused me, and sort of made me want him more.

I have read these books (you can't hate something properly until you've read it) and yes he is a Republican (abstinence, Family Values_tm, etc.) And like all good Republicans, he has a secret kink, which is his horribly unhealthy D/s relationship with Bella. And his pillow-biting habit during sex.


Also, I object to calling Edward and friend vampires, because they are not. Vampires don't sparkle in the sun, they explode/burn/etc. Edward and the rest are hemogoblins.

Emo-goblins?
:mrgreen: :mrgreen:
I'll check that link in detail.  :thumbsup:

The sparkling thingys in Twilight not vampires.

Bela Lugousi's Nosferatu, even Christopher Lee's cheesy Count now we are talking vampires. ;D 

Hmm sorry, missed that one so far.  Did see Merlin for the first time. It seems entirely populated by those teenage boy/girl band members whose acting was too bad to get them into Demons (which is saying something).  FWIW I suspect Merlin is probably a Liberal Democrat and Arthur a Young Conservative.

Have seen one episode of Merlin and agree. Definitely a liberal democrat. Unfortunately the program is on at a time that I rarely watch TV, and doesn't rate important enough to record, otherwise I am sure I'd get hooked. Seems like an excellent Demons for chidlren. I like the analogy.

SPOILERS [based off what I remember from the books, which I read last spring]

Brief overview of Twilight for the blissfully unaware (which will encompass all three books, plus Midnight Sun, which is basically the first book from Eddie's perspective) :

Written by a crazy Mormon lady from Phoenix, AZ. named Stefanie Meyers

Bella Swan is a silly girl from Phoenix who moves to Forks, Washington because her mom has married some baseball player. Her dad is the county sheriff (or something), and is named Charlie. She calls him this throughout the entire book.
She hates rain, her truck, and everything about Forks. She is clumsy. Bella shuns all contact with males in Forks and is too socially retarded to deal with the girls.
She sees Edward Cullen and immediately falls in love with this too perfect being, who is really a jerk and has no idea what to do about the fact that he both wants to eat her and hug her. Awkwardness ensues. He saves her from a flying car and then advocates to his "father" Carlsile Cullen that they kill her because she is beginning to figure out that something about the Cullens are off (there are, like, six of them, and four are in school with Bella).

Annnnd then nothing happens to her because, well, that would wreck the story (it actually might have been interesting and far more gothic if she had had to save herself, but they fell in love anyway). Anyway, she goes off to Seattle to go shopping or something, and is almost eaten by some psycho vampire guy whose name I forget. Eddie shows up because the Cullens have figured out that what's-his-face is going after her because Eddie likes her (if I recall). He shows up in his Car of Awesomeness and forces her to get in so he can save her and then they end up eating lunch together. Psycho Vampire Guy uses Edward's affection for Bella by then goes to threaten her mom in Phoenix. She runs back there, and Edward and friends follow. Psycho Vampire Guy gets killed. He has a wife, who will reappear later.

And for a zillion pages, it's sappiness that involves her cooing over his pretty sparkleness and supposed perfection in every single way. Then it's her birthday, a glass vase breaks when she's at their house, and she gets cut. Carslisle hustles her out because he's the only one with enough self control not to want to eat people when they bleed (he's also a doctor at the local hospital, in some sort of bizarre Protestant need to punish himself for what he is [his father was a pastor guy in Germany during the Reformation]).
It's then that Eddie decides he can never be around her again, and when he tells her so, he takes her out into the woods. She freaks out, looses her mind for a while, and he leaves her in the forest while he goes and collects anything and everything that he ever gave her, pictures of them, or that will remind her of him.

Oh, did I mention he started sneaking into her room to watch her sleep from the day after the flying car incident on? Well, he did. She doesn't find it creepy at all (in fact she loves it) though he chastises himself from the get-go for being a creepy stalker. As I understand it, the fact that he can't hear her thoughts (and he can hear EVERYONE else's) fascinates him, plus her blood smells like freisa. On nom nom.

Anyway, she spends hours wandering around in the woods, completely out of her mind. There's an Indian reservation nearby, and Charlie is friends with a bunch of them. One of them (who we later find out is a werewolf, such as they exist in this series), finds her and brings her to Charlie who calls off the search effort.
And here, the publisher let her waste like a hundred pages of BLANK PAPER to show how utterly lost she is. However, right after she comes out of it, my very favorite part of the book comes, where she claws the stereo system the Cullens had given her for her birthday out of her truck with her bare hands. She apparently did it in the rain while she was crazy and she finds it in her closet, covered in blood.

Charlie has never approved of Edward and pushes her toward Jacob, an Indian dude whose father he's friends with. She does indeed become friends with him, though with the intent to use him to kill herself.
Also, did I mention that Edward and Bella have dueling suicide attempts?
Jacob develops a huuuge crush on her and becomes horribly passive aggressive when she makes it clear she isn't interested (which sucks, because in the book he's introduced in, he's an awesome character, as are all the werewolves. The general theory is that Meyers realized she had made Jacob a far more likable character than Edward, Which Could Not Be, so she assassinated him).

Anyway, so she spends a lot of time hanging out with Jacob and his friends and one day, they decide they're going cliff diving. One of Edward's sort-of sisters is a seer and she freaks out because she thinks Bella died because she can't see on the reservation (an allusion to how Indians are a Lost Tribe or something and are therefore unworthy in the Mormon god's sight). And I can't remember is she knew that Jacob and a few others were werewolves yet. I think she did.

Previously, Bella had done risky things, including walking towards a bunch of creepy guys who tried to talk to her when she was at the movies out of town. Edward, in his creepy stalkery ways, had been keeping an eye on her that night and saved her from possibly being assaulted.

So Edward and friends come rushing out to save her and then there's some sort of territorial dispute because the werewolves know what the Cullens are and don't like them. Peace is reached because everyone loves t3h Bella (which is completely inexplicable because she's emotionally weak, obnoxious, and generally pathetic).

Bella and Edward get back together. Gushing about Edward, bowing to his every whim, letting him tell her what to do, and passive aggressive behavior from Jacob ensues. At some point, Edward has to leave, so he pays the seer sister to basically hold her hostage until he gets back, under the guise of a sleep over. Bella is aware of this, and doesn't seem to mind.

And I skipped the fact that the Cullens are in trouble/having issues with the Vampire Council guys in Italy. I don't remember why. This will come into play later.

As graduation approaches, Bella starts pressuring Edward into marrying her--she's eighteen and aging, he isn't. And then he proposes, and she accepts, and the Carslisle and Esme (his wife) pull some strings to get her into Dartmouth. As the wedding approaches, she starts thinking college first might be a good idea. This is the very first mention of any ambition Bella has or interest in anything that isn't Edward-centric. And then she doesn't go anyway, so it doesn't matter. They get married, despite Bella's mother's objections. This is also the last time she will see any of her human family and friends. After this, they will stage her death so she can become a vampire.
Bella and Edward go to Brazil for their honey moon. Naturally, Edward speaks Brazilian Portuguese. Here is possibly one of the few good moments of the series, when Bella starts having her virginal freak out. And then gets over it, sort of. Pillow biting sex ensues. Meyers mentioned how cold vampires are--in facts, she emphasizes it throughout the books. So I have questions here. Popsicle?

Mysteriously, Bella gets pregnant. Everyone freaks out because THAT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN. Her pregnancy progressive super fast and the demon spawn (aka "Nessie") starts EATING her, so she has to start drinking blood so Nessie quits eating her. Right before birth, Nessie starts breaking her ribs, spine, and her pelvis. And then she nearly bleeds to death so Edward makes her a vampire to save her life. She's out cold for about three weeks, during which Nessie has already reached toddlerhood. After she wakes up, they name the little monster Renesme (after their mothers). Nessie can talk already, and apparently feels bad for nearly killing her mother.
Here's the super creepy part: Jacob imprints on Nessie. Meaning she's his other half. Granted, the relationship will revolve around her needs--whatever she needs Jacob to be, he will (friend, brother, husband, etc)--and she IS going to mature physically and mentally at a super fast rate. She'll be a full grown adult in a few years.
Anyway, the Vampire Council guys hear about Nessie and her family has to show them she's not what they think she is. They somehow find another dhampir like her from Brazil, who is a hundred years old and totally non-threatening. Anyway, everyone comes to the conclusion Nessie is a-okay and they all live happily ever after.

tl;dr: Meyers never read any vampire/werewolf/dhampir lore and made all sorts of things up. There was an abusive relationship, they got married. They had a baby. She became a super-awesome vampire. The end.

I see I haven't missed anything...  ;D


Thank you Scriblerus!

Indeed not. I was involved with a project that was going to be the most horrific parody of it we could write so we figured we should know the books. That died, sadly. :(

What is the source of the current obsession with vampires? or should that go in "Easy Questions"?

Quote from: Griffin NoName on October 12, 2009, 04:15:50 AM

What is the source of the current obsession with vampires? or should that go in "Easy Questions"?

They come into fashion at certain intervals (as do wizards, pirates, cowboys...) at least in the movies.
I think the main culprit for starting the new 'in our world' fantasy wave on the book side is that British lady that wrote those books about those child wizards at that sow furuncle boarding school ;). Together with the abominable Lewis revival made by the company not to be named, she likely inspired that untalented Mor(m)on lady to jump on that bandwagon and writing something that GOPsters and their base can also read (that British lady was far too much into tolerance and miscegenation).
What ever one thinks of the other current vampire movies, at least Kate is cool.
(http://chockblock.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/kate-beckinsale-underworld-evolution.jpg)
http://chockblock.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/kate-beckinsale-underworld-evolution.jpg

As far as child/adolescent vampires go, that's an old hat too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Vampire

Quote from: Darlica on October 11, 2009, 11:32:58 AM
The sparkling thingys in Twilight not vampires.

Bela Lugousi's Nosferatu, even Christopher Lee's cheesy Count now we are talking vampires. ;D 

Slight correction, Lugosi is never called a Nosferatu but his predecessor Max Schreck was (while leaving out the name of Dracula instead).
(http://www.frontiernet.net/~oracle/vamp/nos.jpg)(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.cinematical.com/media/2007/10/bela-lugosi-1-monster-gallery.jpg)(http://www.vampyres-online.com/images/christopher_lee_big.jpg) http://www.frontiernet.net/~oracle/vamp/nos.jpg http://www.blogcdn.com/www.cinematical.com/media/2007/10/bela-lugosi-1-monster-gallery.jpg http://www.vampyres-online.com/images/christopher_lee_big.jpg

Swato, I stand corrected and bow to your movie-fu!  ;)

Another info morsel: In the famous Todd Browning Dracula movie, that made Lugosi famous, the vampire at no time shows his teeth. Either the censors did not allow it or the filmmakers feared that it would be censored. The first vampire with elongated canines* was possibly the one in the Mexican movie El Vampiro.
Btw quite a good film. Iirc I posted a review in the Humbleodeon.

*no, not dachshunds ;); Max Schreck (nosferatur) had not elongated canine but rodent incisors (associating him with rats, while Dracula is connected to wolfs).

I do remember those elongated rat-like teeth.  Made for an interesting effect, I thought.  On the other hand, although I'm a huge fan of vampirism in literature and film, I did not enjoy that movie nearly so much as I expected to.  But that was years and years ago-- perhaps I should give it a second take.

But, whatever you may say...Beckensale in slick leather was totally hot-- and her 1/2 wolf 1/2 vamp paramour[sp] was hot*, too.   I'd pay good money to see more Beckensale-as-a-vamp, but alas she just made the two.... the 3rd movie was a prequel, and I did not see it (although I should).


______
_{* assuming you like guys.  Being happily self-identified as hetro, I'm comfortable in my role, and just as comfortable recognizing hot/pretty men when I see'em, or am informed of their presence.  Besides, what male or female does not, in the world of their own fantasies, imagine themselves as totally hot?  At least to the camera of the mind's eye? So, seeing hot men with hot women only helps in this area....}

Quote from: Swatopluk on October 12, 2009, 08:51:21 AM
Together with the abominable Lewis revival...

Awww, I liked the Narnia Chronicles and I hope they make more. That series was a stable of my childhood reading diet, along with Harry Potter and Allanah the Lioness.

Quote from: Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith on October 12, 2009, 03:34:01 PM
...I did not enjoy that movie nearly so much as I expected to...

But, whatever you may say...Beckensale in slick leather was totally hot-- and her 1/2 wolf 1/2 vamp paramour[sp] was hot*, too.   I'd pay good money to see more Beckensale-as-a-vamp, but alas she just made the two.... the 3rd movie was a prequel, and I did not see it (although I should).

^This. Beckensale and her paramour were pretty much the only reason I saw the movie, though the score for the movie is really good and I like some of the ideas presented in the flick.

Other than that, I actually don't care about vampires. I don't mind them of course, but I've never pursued them in literature. Any suggestions as to what to read, guys?

I get mad when people compare SMeyers to Rowling. Rowling may have had plot holes in her books you can drive a bus through, but she can write! (tidbit about Twilight: SMeyers actually uses the phrase, "...my traitorous tears, betraying me." I died a little inside.)

Another thing contributing to the Republitard aspect of the books is that Bella is basically a Mary Sue (which is to say the author has inserted herself into the books as a character). She fits almost everything that makes a Sue--everyone immediately, inexplicably loves her, everything that's male and biologically in her age bracket wants her (Edward counts because he was seventeen or eighteen when he was turned). She's cutely clumsy, etc. There's more, but this was basically a relationship Sue--she latches on to Edward from the get-go because he's what she wants in a man [tidbit: Edward apparently resembles John Smith a lot, the founder of Mormonism. This is also baaaad and unholy according to Mormon tradition].
Anyway, that Bella is a Sue means that everything that woman believes (or most of it, anyway) will appear in the books.

ANOTHER random tidbit: for a while, everyone thought Bella's name was a nod to Bela Lugosi. She then admitted she had never read/watched ANYTHING about vampires.

Quote from: Scriblerus the Philosophe on October 12, 2009, 05:46:53 PMAwww, I liked the Narnia Chronicles and I hope they make more. That series was a stable of my childhood reading diet, along with Harry Potter and Allanah the Lioness.

:ROFL: <------  at myself

Thank you, Scrib, for reminding me that I'm getting rather old rather quickly when I caught myself saying "wait a minute, those weren't around when I was a....." (since you're a young adult, this points out that I may not be anymore).  ::)

My mother actually read most of the series before I started (she got hooked early enough to be waiting eagerly for each of the last few to be released), and lent me most of them to read.

Narnia was likewise a childhood staple (have you got around to The Screwtape Letters yet?), with other fantasy incursions including loads of Road Dahl, Redwall (only the first few, I understand there's quite a lot now, but I haven't bothered reading them), Tolkien of course, and locked firmly on The Wheel of Time around age 11 through whenever they decide to get the last book(s) out - the series has outlived the author. ::)

Nope, never got around to the Screwtape Letters. Yes on Rold Dahl, Redwall, and Tolkien. I couldn't get into the Wheel of Time, but I got right into David and Leigh Eddings' Belgariad and Mallorean sagas.
I got into Harry Potter in 1998, I think. I remember my mom buying me a copy of Sorcerer's Stone at the grocery store. Chamber of Secrets was out already, and the third came right out after that. I read the third on 19 times (no exaggeration) waiting for number four. Still my favorite one. :)

Well, Lewis was religious proselytism right from the get go, but despite his plot holes (if with Rowling those are trucks with Lewis are Titanic size ones) he is IMO a tolerable writer... to a point. I actually read 4 books and for the 5th it was just too much.
--
Tolkien OTOH shouldn't be mentioned in the same paragraph as the guy above. Heck! He shouldn't be in this thread at all, we will be punished for desecrating his name by mentioning him here!

Lewis is better when encountered as a child unaware of religious considerations, IMHO.  The Screwtape Letters are much more appreciable as an adult, with a bit of a wink/nod thrown in there (and were dedicated to J.R.R. Tolkien, fa!).  Definitely recommended, from what I remember.

Scrib, how far did you get in the WoT?  I think you'd need to make it through at least three books to get a fair picture of the series (and they get bloody big after that).  I may attempt a re-read before the last one comes out, but at my current rate of reading it'd take a decade or so.

My dad bought me one in the middle of the series and I tried to get into and then gave up.

I was pretty unaware of the religious stuff in Lewis. I was like nine and despite being Catholic, I really didn't get it. I knew Aslan was like Jesus and I saw the whole thing with Adam and Eve, but pretty much the rest of it went over my head.
I read the entire series and liked it a lot for just a bunch of stories.

Quote from: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on October 12, 2009, 06:32:18 PM
Tolkien OTOH shouldn't be mentioned in the same paragraph as the guy above. Heck! He shouldn't be in this thread at all, we will be punished for desecrating his name by mentioning him here!

I like Tolkien well enough, but he's not the epitome of all that is awesome about fantasy. The Hobbit got me into reading, but the rest of the series didn't grab my attention so much as Mr. Frodo Baggins.

Quote from: Scriblerus the Philosophe on October 12, 2009, 07:40:15 PM
My dad bought me one in the middle of the series and I tried to get into and then gave up.

That explains it - I used to do re-reads every time a new book came out to keep all the sub-plots and minor characters straight.  It'd be worth reading the firs three in order (they are relatively short) if you have some spare reading time to see if you like it.  It's probably necessary to read at least three, because the series expands and refocuses beyond the first book (similar to HP, except the writing is top-quality from the get go).

The whole point of Tolkien is one of consistency, his universe is meticulously detailed and while some of his characters are almost flawless, many points are very credible regarding their [human? ;)] nature. The beginning of the Silmarillion may be dense and boring but carefully consistent -you could say necessary- to his universe. It's a level of care (a lifetime) that can't be compared to other authors of the genre, hard even with other genres.

And he has aged quite well, I might say. IOW, regardless of criticism he is at a very different level from a Lewis or a Rowling.

Quote from: Scriblerus the Philosophe on October 12, 2009, 05:46:53 PM
.....I don't mind them of course, but I've never pursued them in literature. Any suggestions as to what to read, guys?

My favorite vampire series is/was Fred Saberhagen's Dracula Series.

I strongly recommend beginning in the middle, with my favorite one:  "An Old Friend of the Family", #3 in the series... containing the classic line by Dracula, "I was delayed in arriving, I had to change planes..."

:)

Here's a fairly complete list:  "http://www.amazon.com/Fred-Saberhagens-Dracula-series/lm/3HNRQ3MKRVR53"

The series is set in the modern world, and most folk are oblivious to the existence of vamps, natch.   Dracula is what I would call in AD&D terms, Lawful Neutral.  He did not kill wantonly, but was loyal to a fault.  However, if someone crossed one of his lines?  He would destroy them without a moments hesitation or thought. 

I've read all but the last couple, and would recommend any-- but my favorite is "Old Friend".

Quote from: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on October 12, 2009, 08:10:30 PM
The whole point of Tolkien is one of consistency, his universe is meticulously detailed and while some of his characters are almost flawless, many points are very credible regarding their [human? ;)] nature. The beginning of the Silmarillion may be dense and boring but carefully consistent -you could say necessary- to his universe. It's a level of care (a lifetime) that can't be compared to other authors of the genre, hard even with other genres.

And he has aged quite well, I might say. IOW, regardless of criticism he is at a very different level from a Lewis or a Rowling.

Oh, indeed he has and I got through everything but the last quarter of Return of the King. And I read about half of the Simarillion before forgetting about it (srsly, happens all the time. I get half way through a book, put it down to read another one and then pick up three more and forget about the first one all together).

Quote from: Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith on October 13, 2009, 02:15:35 AM

Quote from: Scriblerus the Philosophe on October 12, 2009, 05:46:53 PM
.....I don't mind them of course, but I've never pursued them in literature. Any suggestions as to what to read, guys?

My favorite vampire series is/was Fred Saberhagen's Dracula Series.

I strongly recommend beginning in the middle, with my favorite one:  "An Old Friend of the Family", #3 in the series... containing the classic line by Dracula, "I was delayed in arriving, I had to change planes..."

:)

Here's a fairly complete list:  "http://www.amazon.com/Fred-Saberhagens-Dracula-series/lm/3HNRQ3MKRVR53"

The series is set in the modern world, and most folk are oblivious to the existence of vamps, natch.   Dracula is what I would call in AD&D terms, Lawful Neutral.  He did not kill wantonly, but was loyal to a fault.  However, if someone crossed one of his lines?  He would destroy them without a moments hesitation or thought. 

I've read all but the last couple, and would recommend any-- but my favorite is "Old Friend".

Hmhmhm, must investigate them when I have time. Bookmarked for when I have the time and money. They look pretty good.

Quote from: Agujjim on October 12, 2009, 08:02:48 PM

Quote from: Scriblerus the Philosophe on October 12, 2009, 07:40:15 PM
My dad bought me one in the middle of the series and I tried to get into and then gave up.

That explains it - I used to do re-reads every time a new book came out to keep all the sub-plots and minor characters straight.  It'd be worth reading the firs three in order (they are relatively short) if you have some spare reading time to see if you like it.  It's probably necessary to read at least three, because the series expands and refocuses beyond the first book (similar to HP, except the writing is top-quality from the get go).

Ah, such a precious commodity! :) I'll try again.

If you want something scientific about vampires why not try
Tractat von dem Kauen und Schmatzen der Todten in Gräbern
http://de.wikisource.org/wiki/Tractat_von_dem_Kauen_und_Schmatzen_der_Todten_in_Gr%C3%A4bern
:mrgreen: ;)

Provided you are able to understand 18th century German this is quite interesting. This is the first tract on vampires that actually deserves the term scientific and a lot described there holds up well even today.
As far as movies go, I can't say to much yet, or the Movie quiz would be too easy ;D

For fiction you could give Kim Newman a try
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anno_Dracula_series
I have only read the first volume yet but I think I'll try to get some of the others.
In short: Stoker lied, Dracula triumphed, and Britain is now a Victorian class society with vampires to be found on all levels, especially in government. In Anno Dracula a mad killer/slasher murders vampire prostitutes in Whitechapel (London) and the police tries to find the guy.

Why do I find this comic relevant nowadays?
(http://www.pvponline.com/comics/pvp20091016.gif)
http://www.pvponline.com/2009/10/16/milking-it/

Because you fear attacks by vampire pumpkins and watermelons? :mrgreen:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire_watermelon
Or Bunnicula?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunnicula

Scrib: I went to Where the Wild Things Are  this past weekend, and the tweens racing from their Mom's minivan to the doors stopped in their tracks, absolutely mesmerized  by the large signs posted on the multiplex doors:

TICKETS FOR NEW MOON ON SALE NOV 19

They turned to each other, jumped up and down shrieking, and nearly expired of pent-up frustration/bliss/sparkliness right there.
(http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/verkleidung/costumed-smiley-001.gif)