here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1951333/Einstein-thought-religions-were-'childish'.html)
At least it explains why he didn't think God plays dice.
No matter how brilliant the mind, there is still some desire for some unknown that's possibly bigger that what our limited intelligence (even Einstein's) can grasp.
If "we" are the pinnacle of civilization, let's just give up, climb the trees and go back to flinging poo...
That sounds fun!
Quote from: MentalBlock996 on May 15, 2008, 11:06:29 PM
That sounds fun!
Woiks for me, too :mrgreen:. I'm gonna have to have some latex gloves, though...
The strangest thing is that someone paid around £200,000 (~ US$390,000) for the letter (including auction fees).
Can only assume someone plans to use it as a "Get out of Hell free" card. "Look, the bright guys said you didn't exist".
The other amusing thing is that (last time I checked), no major U.S. news outlet had carried the story. Full marks to the Kansas City Star though...
Quote from: beagle on May 16, 2008, 07:44:29 AM
The other amusing thing is that (last time I checked), no major U.S. news outlet had carried the story. Full marks to the Kansas City Star though...
Remind me, who is this guy?
:irony:
Yes, he was an atheist. No not really a toadfish- he was pretty blunt about his thoughts in this letter, zero tolerance.
:ROFL:
Most apes/monkeys don't fling poo---those that do so are suffering from what we would call 'mental illness' mainly stress related from being in 'prison' (zoos are prisons of necessary evil). I have known some chimps, however, who could hit you square between the eyes with a mouthful of water-- amazing fun actually (for all involved-especially the newbie volunteers who weren't ready for it)---- chimpanzees do in fact laugh(sort of a huffing, chucking sound).
Humans are very adept at the poo flinging however--- we used to use mud,stick,words-- but we are rapidly becoming great poo flingers. Presidential political races are a prime example.
Ever notice how many of the hairless apes DO suffer from mental illness? Stress? Intolerable conditions?
I'm just hoping that flinging the poo while sitting in a tree helps relieve the pressure.
Have y'all read "The Human Zoo" by Desmond Morris?
(heck, read the whole Naked Ape trilogy, not to be taken as gospel, but good food for thought)
Quote from: anthrobabe on May 16, 2008, 02:06:34 PM
Yes, he was an atheist. No not really a toadfish- he was pretty blunt about his thoughts in this letter, zero tolerance.
I'm afraid I must politely disagree.
That letter was private correspondence. His public statements were much more diplomatic, I think.
I think he would've understood and applauded our efforts here.
In his later years, one of the things Einstein laments, is his help in getting the US to work on the Atomic bomb (at least as far as I can tell from the limited quotes I've read by him).
According to those who studied under his professorship, he was quite witty, and loved to laugh with people.
What some folk say in private, as opposed to public, may be in direct contrast-- I see nothing hypocritical about this. Our public face is the face we try to project onto strangers, or with people who's opinions we realize we may differ. In private? If we know the person's opinion is similar to our own? We may let our hair down more, or speak without qualifiers-- for we know the receiver of the message already knows that the qualifiers are implied, by the fact that they already know our basic character.
No, I think he would've had much to contribute.
I have to say I'm in agreement with Bob on this. And, sorry Mr. Heisenberg, your priciple does not apply in this case. :P
I had a hunt around to see what I could find out about Eric(h) Gutkind. Not very much. His remaining fame seems to rely on this letter, and a few out of print books whose titles seem to imply a biblical influence.
Presumably as he's described as a friend it wasn't a case of Einstein trying to shake off an overly persistent Jehovah's Witness. One very indirect article I found was a Henry Miller reference (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=N-xUV8_ic5QC&pg=PA231&lpg=PA231&dq=erich+gutkind+purpose+job&source=web&ots=eQ9L8iyn-A&sig=tZPZ14Qpkuj15ZG59NzYXtZR4Z8&hl=en#PPA231,M1) to an article Gutkind had written about Job in a magazine called Purpose.
Quote from: Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith on May 16, 2008, 05:56:48 PM
What some folk say in private, as opposed to public, may be in direct contrast-- I see nothing hypocritical about this.
Neither do I. He may just have been being polite, or as a refugee immigrant be being careful not to rock the boat. After all, in the red scare days atheism was pretty much synonymous with communism.
(The original post title was intended as a parody of a Sun headline but, as you're not blessed with this Murdoch title in the States, probably didn't mean much).
I'm with Bob and Mero too. Would his only option be to remain completely silent about his feelings on the subject to be respected? More so, he never made it his fight to convince everybody else about his beliefs (or lack thereof).
Quote from: Einstein's letterThe word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this
Note the qualifier in the sentence (my emphasis). I know that the subject is sensitive for those who believe, but how else can you express your ideas without being labeled 'intolerant'?
Quote from: Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith on May 16, 2008, 05:56:48 PMWhat What some folk say in private, as opposed to public, may be in direct contrast-- I see nothing hypocritical about this.
I don't see it as hypocritical either.
If they say one thing in private and the exact opposite in public I call it telling lies. Either in public or in private. :mrgreen:
If on the other hand you mean being discrete in public, I call it sensible.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Perhaps Beagle could give us some Sun links to balance out all his Telegraph ones. ;D
Quote from: Griffin NoName on May 17, 2008, 12:47:37 AM
I don't see it as hypocritical either.
If they say one thing in private and the exact opposite in public I call it telling lies. Either in public or in private. :mrgreen:
If on the other hand you mean being discrete in public, I call it sensible.
There are lies and then there are lies.
In private coorespondence or conversations, I often do not feel the need to qualify or "soften" my statements-- if I don't believe in god, for example, I might not qualify statements about that in private with "in my opinion". On the other hand, in public, I try to be more sensitive, and so put in the qualifiers.
But if you take both sets of statements, the private one seems in direct contradiction to the public ones-- this is
not lying, it's just being polite.
Context is everything, in communication. :)
Quote from: Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith on May 17, 2008, 01:48:26 AM
But if you take both sets of statements, the private one seems in direct contradiction to the public ones-- this is not lying, it's just being polite.
Context is everything, in communication. :)
I don't think it is polite to lie.
Content is everything in communication.
1. I did not have sex with her.
2. I did have sex with her.
:mrgreen:
this is topic drift at its finest !
Perhaps. But I'm more inclined to agree with Zono, Beagle and Mero. Atheism was not an accepted view, and the man WAS a refugee, after all, and it would be rather bad to be blacklisted as a Commie or whatever.
I will be the first to admit to lying about my views to stay out of trouble--I nearly got kicked out of the house last spring for telling my mother I wasn't Catholic, and I DIDN'T tell her what I really believed, because that would have gotten me kicked out and disowned instantaneously. I can identify with Einstein because of that.
Voice a view that's borderline, and you can get away with it, even if it's a little dishonest.
Voice a view that's a societal (or familial) anathema and you will suffer for it.
In discussing a specific case, I agree with the concensus. I am however wary of generalising from a specific.
Quote from: Griffin NoName on May 17, 2008, 04:00:18 PM
I don't think it is polite to lie.
But most people can't handle the truth, as a famous philosopher (might have been Tom Cruise) once said.