Grmbl... I just got back from a meeting that was supposed to start at noon. The person calling the meeting didn't show up. Ever. And didn't leave a message with me about cancelling. I was there for TWO HOURS! And... this is the second time she's done this.
She is sort of an eccentric person and I supposed is rather flakey. I am too, but I don't let people sit around and wait for me for two hours without any notice. She is wealthy-ish. Maybe she can afford to blow off paupers like myself. I know this isn't very humble of me, but gee- TWICE?
I do a web-site for her. She has skads of ideas, but is not a doer, like I am. (And MB calls himself a whippin' boy!) She has brought in another person to help. This other person is full of ideas as well. I hope she'll be more of a doer. The other person told me she'd be late, and she was. Then she had to take her sick kid home from school and didn't stay. The Boss Lady had talked to her and told her that she had gone out to lunch at a local fancy restaurant. Meanwhile, there I was in her empty office rattling around trying to feel important and wasting a perfectly lovely day when I could have been doing something more productive, like laundry, drinking iced tea and staring at the clouds.
I don't know what to say to this person. She can be really very nice and positive, but honestly, I don't want my time wasted like that. I'm sure she'll be very apologetic (like she was last time), but now I am convinced that this will happen again and no stern talking-to will change this.
Maybe I should say that I won't be attending any more meetings. Really, we get more things discussede by email, anyway.
Do you have her cellphone? Call her half an hour before the meeting and try get a straight answer from her (regarding her attendance). If that doesn't work, well, perhaps you shouldn't work for her.
Peope like that drive me nuts. I certainly wouldn't go to any more meetings. Let her come to you so you can just get on with things.
Since she seems to be able to remember to eat, maybes she should have all meetings catered. That way, shell be there to eat...and PAY for it.
That you're a volunteer and she disrespects your schedule is, sadly, typical of some of the more affluent members of American society. They're not paying for it, so why bother? It's not like your time is important. (If it were, she'd be paying...money is, after all, the meaning of everything.)
Next time she wants a meeting, tell her that you've tried that twice, and you've wasted hours waiting for meetings that didn't happen. Next time, SHE comes to pick you up, and brings you home after, so that until there's actually a physical embodiment of her at your door, you don't have to waste your day.
You waited TWO hours? :o
I wait fifteen minutes, and then I leave, unless they call me and give me a legit reason to wait.
Might she another GATE mommy? Tell her to be on time, or she'll be finding someone else to do it.
Fluffy is free for the next meeting
fluffy has no problem going to fancy eating place and finding lost no shows
:dragon:
the big question is why do we do this to ourselves (you are not alone)--we are busy, intelligent women with places to go and things to do that are important (and iced tea and clouds certainly do count!) but so often we feel we must wait, and wait, and wait--- is it ingrained in us that deeply that to not wait will make us bitches? This is abuse-abuse of someone's creativity and time and feelings.
I'm with Scrib-- I wait 15-20 minutes, and I'm outta there.
In fact, when I go into Fast Food, the wait time is less. More that 3 minutes or so, I'm gone. If I wanted to wait for the food, I would have gone to a place that serves decent, sit-down meals. I'm in there because it's fuel..... as in Fast food.
Is why I seldom go through the drive-up: you're trapped in the line in most places, no option to vacate your position and go somewhere else.
I think of it as voting with my feet. :)
Thank you so much for your good advice and support.
This morning I found an email she had sent at 5:18 p.m. which was predictably apologetic. She said she probably just missed me. She asked if I had her cell phone number and that I should have called her and she would have come right away! ::)
I wrote back that I'd be at the office at noonish every Wednesday and if no-one showed up I would tend the greenhouse and go home. I also told her that since she didn't keep the date that it was she that really should have called me. I reminded her that I have a life. I hope I didn't sound too snippy, but I really believe she hasn't a clue, so now I've given her one to do with what she will.
I love Chatty's idea of her having to pick me up. I will keep that in mind.
Anthro's right, too- about not wanting to be a bitch. I don't know whether it's only women that feel that way- it's probably anyone who wants to play nice, be patient and give others the benefit of a doubt. I actually felt guilty for leaving when I did. Can you believe that?
TWO HOURS and you felt guilty.
Twenty mins, I would have. Thirty five mins no way. One hour I'd have felt angelic.
Quote from: Opsanus tau on April 10, 2008, 04:45:00 PMAnthro's right, too- about not wanting to be a bitch. I don't know whether it's only women that feel that way- it's probably anyone who wants to play nice, be patient and give others the benefit of a doubt. I actually felt guilty for leaving when I did. Can you believe that?
I think it's
much easier for a man to get away with a 'tough but fair' approach, and be respected for it. Even a whip-cracker will tend to be labelled a hard-ass rather than an asshole, provided they are somewhat reasonable. OTOH, women who are not sweet accommodating DO tend to get the 'bitch' label thrown at them. At the same time, being sweet and accommodating (either gender) seems to get you stepped on.
It's a hard line to walk.
I guess I will have to look upon it as a test for my patience.
I would like to be a more patient person, but where does one draw the line?
She has written again, kind of laughing it off. While I am glad we are still on good terms, I am finding my faith in her to have fallen. I want to be helpful and do good work on the site, but I don't want to be inconvenienced again.
So she laugh it off...
She need to be reminded that your time is as valuable as hers.
She's the boss of this thing, but is there someone else who can give you the information she can give you or whatever it is you need from her?
I'd set up meetings in my home or some other place that is convenient for me. Or I would just tell her: I'll leave after 15 minutes if you don't show up or at least call and no meetings no web site.
And ask her if she knows how to set the alarm clock on her cellphone...
;D
Quote from: Darlica on April 10, 2008, 11:40:28 PM
And ask her if she knows how to set the alarm clock on her cellphone...
;D
Or, if she frequently uses the phrase, "that's hot!" ::)
Quote from: Opsanus tau...
She has written again, kind of laughing it off. While I am glad we are still on good terms, I am finding my faith in her to have fallen. I want to be helpful and do good work on the site, but I don't want to be inconvenienced again.
In the words of Miss Piggy, "On the other hand, if (s)he treats it in an offhand manner, (s)he is obviously the kind of person who is not going to knock (her)self out for you, and you should do it for (her)."
Metaphorically, of course... ;D
Ah, Miss Piggy is surely the living Goddess in Porcine puppet form.
I think I will avoid any proposed future meetings. I will not promise to be anywhere waiting for her again. I'll just avoid any talk of them. Change the subject. Maybe wave something sparkly around when she mentions it, to distract her.
I once waited for 15 minutes at a drive up (sonic) for food --- I had given my order but it was never acknowledged, as if the person who had said 'can I help you' had not heard my order--they do reapeat it back to at least pretend they are going to make or sell you what you want and of course to give you the total price, but I never heard a word,not even a crackle like the speaker was malfunctioning and food was coming to the cars on all sides of me, but nothing--anyway I felt guilty about finally giving up and driving off.
so sad gotta quit doing this.
we must impose limits and stop being rugs for people.
I take the "bitch" label with pride, personally. It means, sadly, that I'm doing a good job looking out for my sanity and dignity.
Quote from: Opsanus tau on April 11, 2008, 04:06:25 PM
I think I will avoid any proposed future meetings. I will not promise to be anywhere waiting for her again. I'll just avoid any talk of them. Change the subject. Maybe wave something sparkly around when she mentions it, to distract her.
Good. Tell her to call you if she wants to get something done, and just make it a conference call.
Maybe I should put this in "Pissed at Myself", but damned if she didn't do it again, today!
She asked us to come to this meeting at 9:30. The other lady said she had this presentation to give us. I showed up at 9:30. I left at 9:52. No cell phone messages. When I got home there was no landline phone message. I was so annoyed I jusyt went out and gardenened for two hours. I didn't want to even be avaialble by phone. I was too irate.
When I came in, she had called. She said she hoped I had gotten the email that the other lady had sent. She said she hoped I'd call soon, because she could only be there until 10:45. Feh. Too late for that.
I checked my email. The other lady had written at 9 to tell me that Bosslady would be late. Don't you think a phone call would have been more effective? Also, I can't understand why Bossy didn't call here. She called the newbie. I guess she figured she still had annoyance miles left on her.
I emailed back to them both stating that I would not be attending any more meetings. Oh, help me remember to hold my ground, here.
I'm on the verge of leaving this carp-paying job.
From now on, should they insist on meetings, they can carry them out in your living room. Or back deck. And bring food.
My patio's always open. Especially if you bring food. Or wine!
Ah, but with e-mail, they've "officially" covered their bases, even if it was sent after you left the house.
Tell her to cover the cost of a phone that can get e-mail AND notify you of it...oh, and to cover the monthly charges as well, and you'll check e-mail "on the road", otherwise, they'll just have to learn to pick up a phone...to let you know when they'll actually show up at your house, with the food. And wine.
People like that need to learn to grow the f**k up and quit being prima donnas.
:D Hee hee, you always know how to make me laugh.
You're right, she really is like a bratty kid, the way she so dependably comes up with lame excuses. I didn't even have to hear her late phone message. It was full of blame for everyone but herself. ::) Sheesh, the woman is ten years older than me and has grown children and yet she must think she's pulling this carp off, somehow.
But... I don't have to play, do I?
Perhaps it's because I'm Hispanic and we tend to be notoriously late for meetings, but -if you allow my insistence- a cellphone call before the meeting to confirm is IMHO a good idea. Technically you shouldn't have to, but if you want to keep the job and your sanity it works better than trying to 'educate' someone older than yourself.
Now, if you call 30 minutes before the meeting, she says "sure, I'll be there!" and she isn't, then we are talking about a very different thing.
This is not the case, Zone. My dad is habitually late and I know to count on that. This Bosslady is just irresponsible. If I had called the meeting, I might call to double-check if I had an habitually late person to meet, or make sure that the meeting place was entertaining (say- at a bookstore). This woman is sometimes there, sometimes not. The last meeting she just blew us off completely and went to lunch. I think I have not forgiven her for that. Particularly since she has not expressed any apology.
Quote from: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on May 09, 2008, 07:11:23 PM
Perhaps it's because I'm Hispanic and we tend to be notoriously late for meetings, but -if you allow my insistence- a cellphone call before the meeting to confirm is IMHO a good idea. Technically you shouldn't have to, but if you want to keep the job and your sanity it works better than trying to 'educate' someone older than yourself.
Now, if you call 30 minutes before the meeting, she says "sure, I'll be there!" and she isn't, then we are talking about a very different thing.
Oh so I see my family is not the only family I know of to run on the dreaded --- be there when we get there time.... :ROFL:
For example we have what we call "Tucson or Reno" time-- most of my family are hispanic--- therefore regular mere mortal time does not necessarily apply----
however-- we are all aware of this, know it is a family/cultural thing (except for me, I am early or something is really wrong).
But naturally we understand what Opsa is talking about--- and the situation is intollerable.
What a couple of you are describing is also known as PST: Pagan Standard Time. (Although I don't tolerate that excuse past 15 minutes unless there has been an emergency!) Cultivating a silent, unblinking, poker-faced stare comes in quite handy, sometimes...
I'd agree with Sibling Zono about a confirmation call, though. Having to 'manage up' is aggravating, but not as aggravating as allowing a lazy or thoughtless ... superior ... walk all over you. I'd call her one hour (plus commute time) before the next scheduled meeting to confirm whether the meeting is still on. (If you want to, call her 24 hours before as well. You know: just like you'd do with any airline known for inconveniencing people with no warning or reason, then offering a flip apology with no subsequent improvement in behaviour.)
If she has her cell off, you could leave a message that it is X o'clock, one hour + your commute time before the scheduled meeting, and you are confirming that it is still on since there have been [dramatic pause] mixups [dramatic pause] the last X times. Add that if you don't hear from her within [commute + parking time + 15 minutes] you will have to conclude that something has come up on her end. Again. So sorry; she can ring you back when she wants to reschedule...
::)
We call that MST (Moron Standard Time).
My nephew-in-law, being black, calls it the predictable CPT, and every time he does I accuse him of stereotyping,because it's NOT just 'CP' that do it. He's moving on to MST, but reserves the right to also call that M as Mothers, as his wife (my niece) would kick his butt otherwise.
We have one friend that's so predictably late that I used to win bets on exactly HOW late she'd be. (22 minutes, usually right on the nose. She even sets her clocks 22 minutes ahead...and has thus trained herself to think "I have an extra 22 minutes" when she looks at a clock.)
For anything involving a meal, we just serve (or order) on time, and she can deal with it...
If she were 'my boss', I'd just refuse to play the game.
Oh those people--
the ones who set the clocks ahead,
there are specific tortures awaiting them in the 'afterlife'--- they are the worst.
Opsa-- don't play her game, she might be the 'boss' but she is not a deity under any circumstances. I agree with a --- hey it is one hour till X call with a I can wait 15 minutes reminder-- but there are limits.
Quote from: anthrobabe on May 10, 2008, 04:38:32 PM
Oh those people--
the ones who set the clocks ahead,
there are specific tortures awaiting them in the 'afterlife'--- they are the worst.
I am those people, but I keep them fairly randomly advanced, so I have to treat them as being more or less correct. Will adjust by useage so it ends up being "if it says the time you need to move, move NOW". I am activity-inertial and don't move from what I'm doing easily.
I have two alarm clocks set to go off randomly for an hour and a half before I have to get dressed........ they all have snooze features so I spend the hour and a half angrily pushing buttons...... by the time the THIRD alarm clock goes off (which is last chance saloon), and is placed in an inaccessible pain to reach place, I am so cross it is a relief to leave home.
If I can manage it, anyone can.
Quote from: Agujjim on May 10, 2008, 06:57:43 PM
I am those people, but I keep them fairly randomly advanced, so I have to treat them as being more or less correct. Will adjust by useage so it ends up being "if it says the time you need to move, move NOW". I am activity-inertial and don't move from what I'm doing easily.
Err, since when are you actually me? Because you seem to be... :mrgreen:
Quote from: Agujjim on May 10, 2008, 06:57:43 PM
Quote from: anthrobabe on May 10, 2008, 04:38:32 PM
Oh those people--
the ones who set the clocks ahead,
there are specific tortures awaiting them in the 'afterlife'--- they are the worst.
I am those people, but I keep them fairly randomly advanced, so I have to treat them as being more or less correct. Will adjust by useage so it ends up being "if it says the time you need to move, move NOW". I am activity-inertial and don't move from what I'm doing easily.
well then I see that I might have some rethinking to do on the subject
and my opinion of 'those people'
hmmmmm
but then again you would show up 'there' with a portable airconditioner and 5 thousand feet of power cord and THIS (http://www.traveloasis.com/plugadapters10.html)
Could I tell her where to stick it?
I got an email from Bosslady on Saturday. She and CroneyPal have decided that I am evading work, somehow. I've been dependably doing this site for her for fifteen months, CroneyPal shows up, they have halk-baked ideas and sometimes show up for meetings they call and I am somehow to blame for what they haven't acheived. Interesting slant.
I do believe I'm outta there.
Ayuh, time to drop this one in the 'Fuck-it Bucket'.
kerrrrrrrr...PLUNK!
I've often found collaborating on websites unsatisfactory. Typical are queries as to why no progress when one is waiting for content that They are supposedly writing. Or when waiting for answers as to which of the samples They want to go ahead with. etc. etc. My theory is that it has something to do with the virtual aspect as authors who pass deadlines for books generally are at least aware a deadline has passed. Even when I invoke the concept of the deadline it doesn't seem to register....... when one is passed the question "but what was I supposed to be doing" is a common response. I think the problem is conceptual.
Get well away from BossLady. Let her make her own discoveries LOL.
Thank you, Doll-face, and you're absolutely right. She just wrote to me again and it became frighteningly clear that she had no idea whatsoever how things are done. Even when I explained things to her very specifically she only selectively heard about a third of what I said and turned the rest into whatever suited her needs. Even now she has no idea what the problem is, but I have given up on trying to tell her. I just sent my resignation to her.
It's really funny, because she told me that the guy that I replaced is back in town and could help. According to her, he was undependable. I suggested that she get in touch with him. :devil2:
Having fun trying to imagine what her picture of dependable is :ROFL:
Quote from: Opsanus tauIt's really funny, because she told me that the guy that I replaced is back in town and could help. According to her, he was undependable. I suggested that she get in touch with him. :devil2:
There's a local guy who made the rounds of free-lance, self-employed seamstresses doing much the same thing. Over-promise, under-deliver, unreasonable deadlines, withheld information, the whole gamut. When he enraged one to the point of no return, he would tell her snarkily that she was 'undependable' and move onto the next.
Eventually he hit critical mass and now is having difficulty getting anyone to take on his 'projects'. Sounds like your boss lady is riding that same trail. I am sorry that she is causing problems for you, but it sounds like you will be better off without her. May the next client be a better one!
Thanks. I had been hearing warning signals from other people, but now I know for sure.
This isn't the first time this sort of person has appeared in my life. I need to think long and hard about what sort of thing I need to look out for. I also need to think long and hard about what I need to improve in myself.
She said that I put too much value on my time ( gee- is my life too important to me, or what?) and that I have a short fuse (unfortunately, I think she's right on that one.)
Quote from: Opsanus tau on May 13, 2008, 07:31:21 PM
This isn't the first time this sort of person has appeared in my life. I need to think long and hard about what sort of thing I need to look out for. I also need to think long and hard about what I need to improve in myself.
She said that I put too much value on my time ( gee- is my life too important to me, or what?) and that I have a short fuse (unfortunately, I think she's right on that one.)
People who find fault with others are often projecting things they hate in themselves.
Improve? Not a word that springs to mind. How about Change? From the sound of it you don't put enough value on your time, and your fuse is too long - I wouldn't call waiting for her to arrive as long as you did a short fuse !
Just tell her that her reputation proceeded her, and you should have listened.
And that YOU have to value your time, because it's obvious SHE doesn't...oh, and that according to others doing the same type of' work', they'd have pitched it back in her inadequate hands after the first selfish, self-centered and rude no-show.
Money, or a pretense of money does NOT buy power, and it's certainly no excuse for crappy manners. Perhaps she needs to learn that to get along in the real world, not just in the 'spoiled, self-centered Prima Donna World' she's living in.
The free-lance web guy around here? Meetings that are productive? Free.
Meetings where he sits and waits? Bill at $50 per quarter hour, one hour minimum.
Our "Library Committee" learned that the hard way. They were 13 minutes late walking to the 'meeting' from lunch, and he handed them a bill for $200, to be paid before he did anything else. At that point, they'd bought nothing but 45 minutes of attendance, and he told them so.
Next time, they were early and had lunch delivered...and they got 4 hours, no charge, because they were ready to work when they walked in.
It's easy to have a short fuse when one is CONSTANTLY being burned... ;)
Thanks sibs, your moral support is priceless. She's emailed me a few times, but I just avoid her arguements and bluntly answer any technical questions.
What's difficult is knowing when to bother to try to let people know what the problem is and when to just get out as cleanly as possible. She wrote long emails full of incorrect assumptions and I was tempted to go through and sort each out, but then I realized that if she hasn't been listening for 15 months she isn't about to suddenly start listening now. So why torture myself by continuing the arguements?
Sometimes I've felt that if I'd done something thoughtless to someone I'd want to know what it is so I would at least have the chance to figure out how to change and become better once the defensiveness wore off. So I'm always tempted to give people a clue when I have perceived something wrong done to me. I think what I need to learn is that most things are better left alone. If you're dealing with loved ones, they may come around eventually and reach an understanding with you. If you're dealing with self-centered jerks, they will not be listening anyway.
Quote from: Opsanus tau
What's difficult is knowing when to bother to try to let people know what the problem is and when to just get out as cleanly as possible. She wrote long emails full of incorrect assumptions and I was tempted to go through and sort each out, but then I realized that if she hasn't been listening for 15 months she isn't about to suddenly start listening now. So why torture myself by continuing the arguements?
That can be a difficult call. You don't want her to assume that your lack of correction = agreeing with her errors. (Of course, you can't control what she will say about you, no matter how meticulously you attempt to present correct information, because...
QuoteIf you're dealing with self-centered jerks, they will not be listening anyway.
If I were in your position, and
if I thought this person had the clout to impact my future options, I might try one last-ditch correction -- for the sake of documentation only. That is, I might send one mail noting that the inaccurate* assumptions I had been trying to correct for the last (X period of time) still seem to be intact, and that my decision to cease repeatedly addressing them point-by-point in no way endorses those errors. If she reviews past messages, she can determine the correct answers for herself, or, if she prefers, I can act as a consultant at ($X/hour) to clarify it for her yet again, and she can sign for a dated copy of the material reviewed at that session. I might even add something from Chatty's suggestion: that she if chooses the consultant option she will be billed for a minimum (X) hours of my time at ($X/hour), even if she fails to keep the appointment or to notify me in a professional manner that she needs to reschedule.
[cough cough]This will not improve her business manners or reasoning ability, but you'll have documentation that you went the extra mile in trying to convey accurate information and to make clear to the client/boss/whatever that there are problems and they aren't yours. Might help with a future client, or it wouldn't be worth it.
Or you could just cut her loose and not respond to her emails. At all. ;)
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
*I have found that the word 'inaccurate' does not raise the hackles in the same way that 'incorrect', 'wrong', or 'lying' do, often allowing me to sneak my message in under someone's defense radar.
Odd, that.
Quote from: Opsanus tau on May 14, 2008, 03:25:20 PM
If you're dealing with loved ones, they may come around eventually and reach an understanding with you. If you're dealing with self-centered jerks, they will not be listening anyway.
<sigh> loved ones who are self-centred jerks <end sigh>
Yes, there's them, too. :pat:
PO9, you're a pal. Luckily, I am sure that people who know Bosslady would take anything she says with a grain of salt. In the last six months she has lost a boyfriend and at least one other employee besides myself, maybe two. I'm not sure because I now count myself as one of those who will never take her for her word again.
Me, I'm part of the town associates board and donate a lot of time there. People know I'm dependable. I think I'll just ...back ...away ...slowly from this adventure and not worry about it.
Arrrghhh, Oi sez we poirate away her AmARRRRGHican Express CAAAAARGHD, go buy brand new Butt Kickin' Boots, and kick her poncy azz to the Isla de los Muertos.
If there's not one handy, we can start one. One Muerta at a time... :mrgreen: :yar: :yar: :yar: :yar: :thumbsup:
:bwa:
Excellent suggestion, Chatty!
(http://media.pegasusnews.com/img/photos/2007/10/09/02_Catrinas_t250.jpg)
Opsanus, tell her: here are your sibs, coming to escort her to her very own Isla de los Muertos. :skullXbones:
Quote from: pieces o nine on May 14, 2008, 06:55:47 PM
.... inaccurate* ...
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
*I have found that the word 'inaccurate' does not raise the hackles in the same way that 'incorrect', 'wrong', or 'lying' do, often allowing me to sneak my message in under someone's defense radar.
Odd, that.
Another one is: "that turns out not to be the case" It
sounds positive, even though it's expressing either: 'you were mistaken' Or worse, 'you were lying'
;D
Ah yes, I shall recite Chatty's excellent message in my mind every time Bosslady tries to contact me. She is still trying, all full of ooey gooey false flattery. I am not responding, other than to gag quietly into my email-sickness bag.
Love the skeleladies. So stylish.
I mentioned the "inaccurate" theory to my other half, since I thought it was interesting. He said that "inaccurate" can also be used to severely piss people off who consider themselves to be precise.
Quote from: Opsanus tau on May 15, 2008, 06:42:34 PM
I mentioned the "inaccurate" theory to my other half, since I thought it was interesting. He said that "inaccurate" can also be used to severely piss people off who consider themselves to be precise.
I consider myself to be precise (when I try, otherwise I can be horribly vague), and inaccuracy doesn't bother me as much as imprecision. I'd rather be precisely wrong. 8)
It's easier to calibrate a precise result (or attitude), and you can have total precision without accuracy, but not total accuracy without precision.
Quote from: Agujjim on May 15, 2008, 08:49:11 PM
Quote from: Opsanus tau on May 15, 2008, 06:42:34 PM
I mentioned the "inaccurate" theory to my other half, since I thought it was interesting. He said that "inaccurate" can also be used to severely piss people off who consider themselves to be precise.
I consider myself to be precise (when I try, otherwise I can be horribly vague), and inaccuracy doesn't bother me as much as imprecision. I'd rather be precisely wrong. 8)
It's easier to calibrate a precise result (or attitude), and you can have total precision without accuracy, but not total accuracy without precision.
:ROFL: what he said