Toadfish Monastery

OK, we're speculating on our Infinite Funding for the Monastery/Monasteries.

Where? What do we include? More than one location, to take advantage of weather/seasons?

What kind of gardens?? (Ooooh, fun!!)

GO!!

Something like the fountain at Castle Howard would be useful to keep the real toadfish in.

(http://www.arch.cam.ac.uk/~dir21/gallery/tn/atlas_fountain_castle_howard.med.png)

(Picture Credit, Atlas Fountain at Castle Howard (C) David Redhouse. see
http://www.arch.cam.ac.uk/~dir21/gallery/tn/atlas_fountain_castle_howard.png.html (http://www.arch.cam.ac.uk/~dir21/gallery/tn/atlas_fountain_castle_howard.png.html) for creative commons picture licence terms).


A maze like the ones at Blenheim or Hampton Court would be handy for storing trolls too.

A BIG yes on the maze.

We can start with one of bigger shrubberies (Ni!) but I want to build one from boxwood that'll take a while to grow as well. (Years, to be specific-ish.)

I have always liked the idea of a maze made up of a shrub that can be shaped into all sorts of things...

Whew, that's grand!

Speaking of mazes, how about a meditation labyrinth garden? http://www.labyrinthcompany.com/

I walked one of these last summer and it was a very cool experience.

We have a lot of chefs here, so we'd need a huge kitchen. Also, a spring house for our Beer production.

I picture a great room with a big stone fireplace and a long table for meeting, creating and sharing meals.

I'd be fond of a Zen rock garden, myself.

It might be good to have things spread out, too, so we can be free to be as noisy as we want in one area without disturbing meditiation/sleep/etc. in another.

And a big honkin' library would be vital, I think.

Oh!  Oh!  Also, a small lake that's  sheltered from the wind by lots of trees for canoeing (solo or with a partner, according to the wants of each).

If we have a labyrinth are we obliged to have a minotaur? It's hard to meditate while running like hell.

Are we going for the big dining room:

http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page2225.asp (http://www.royal.gov.uk/output/Page2225.asp)

or eating in the kitchen? The first has more style, but the food's always cold, and it's a pain if you only have one condiment set.

Seeing how the cooking's likely going to be done by fellow siblings, why not bring them into the festivities?

We could have a stylish eat-in kitchen (or dining room with cooking facilities, depending on your point of view), after all.

What are we going to eat? Monkfish?

Can I be in charge of the vastly extensive but very poorly audited cellars please?

We'll set up up with a suite down there... Just try not to have the people bringing in fresh supplies trip over you.  :P

Might I suggest we have a small part of the monastery set aside for a distillary.  I rather fancy the idea of some quiet contemplative monks watching over the maturation of some fine malt whisky, only occasionally testing the contents, of course. :toadfish:

Bluenose

We need fruit.  Since my Dream Monastery is in the tropics, mangoes, durian, mangosteen and passionfruit are a must, and then everything else that will grow.

In the temperate zones, I'd settle for berries and tree fruits.  Either way, my dream would be to have it all naturalized around the grounds, not cooped up in a garden.

A barley field and some hops twining up the front gate would be a nice touch as well.

'Informal' gardens are more my style, and orchards with trees in a line are too commercial looking...lots of groupings of trees.

I want a butterfly garden, with all the things that'll attract butterflies. Must also have herbs, and a good allium garden, but not too near the other veggies...the kitchen gardens will be huge by necessity.

Can we have a big, informal sunporch that's glassed in during the winter and open during the summer? Lots of comfy chaise longues with sturdy tables and lamps? I miss my grandmother's sunporch and the special place to curl up with a book.

Oh, handicap acessibility, please. Ramps, wide doors (i've tried an electric wheelchair, and I think I might be a little hard on doorframes for a while) lifts/elevators where needed. There's this thing called 'universal design' that's supposed to be accessible without looking 'institutionally accessible'. Plan ahead...

Yep.  Garden.  Biiig garden.  With lavender, tea roses, and crawling ivy attatched to the gazeebo in the centre.
Where I suspect Sibling Chatty and I would spend our time drinking when we weren't weeding.  ;)

Oh yes!

And lets make sure we let some of the roses go to seed, for I have an itch to make some rose jelly, at least in between testing the progress of the malt...

Bluenose

Quote from: Sibling Kephra (Tansy) on November 02, 2006, 04:59:12 AM
Where I suspect Sibling Chatty and I would spend our time drinking when we weren't weeding.  ;)

We could build a separate gazeebo for that. ;D

Some wild roses about the grounds, please...  they smell so lovely, and can seed themselves freely.  As far as handicap accessability, why bother with stairs when we can have flowing walkways and ramps instead?  Love the sunporch idea...

Quote from: Sibling Kephra (Tansy) on November 02, 2006, 04:59:12 AM
Yep.  Garden.  Biiig garden.  With lavender, tea roses, and crawling ivy attatched to the gazeebo in the centre.

You know, hop vines would work just as well as ivy on the gazebo, but be more... practical (ahem... beer... ahem).  :-)

Quote from: Sibling Chatty on November 02, 2006, 04:39:13 AM
Oh, handicap acessibility, please. Ramps, wide doors (i've tried an electric wheelchair, and I think I might be a little hard on doorframes for a while) lifts/elevators where needed. There's this thing called 'universal design' that's supposed to be accessible without looking 'institutionally accessible'. Plan ahead...

Ramps and lifts are good and all, but would a rigging system that flies a person in a harness around the room Peter Pan-style count as handicap-accessible?   ;D

Also, we may need extra electric wheelchairs.  Partly for visitors, but mainly for races.  ;D

Quote from: Sibling Lambicus the Toluous on November 02, 2006, 01:40:20 PMAlso, we may need extra electric wheelchairs.  Partly for visitors, but mainly for races.  ;D

Oh, the ones for races shouldn't be electric.  How about biodiesel? ;D

 :D

I have a bunch of rugosa roses and they make HUGE rose hips. They are also tough as nails and usually bloom before most of the Japanese beetles swarm. They even do well at the beach, in case we wind up near a beach.

Beach property insurance is very high, though. So we can make our own beach-like setting. Remember at TOP when we were discusing saltwater pools? Gotta have one of those!

I just wrote in the Lottery thread about how we might generate income for ourselves and charities. Didn't think about jellies. That would be a good one, too. Also herbal things, like soaps and smudge sticks would be cool.

I'm seriously looking to plant a bamboo forest sooner or later, and sell cut bamboo in the raw (to local craftspeople and artists).  Some manufactured products would do well... where else would you find domestic bamboo?  Some of the giant edibles are cold-hardy enough even for Canada; the US would be a snap.

Oh, and I'd like a hotspring, please!  Piped in with bamboo....

Lots of bamboo...

I love bamboo cuttings in my tropical arrangements.

Umm, I have not mentioned the floral prep and design areas, have I??

I'll need room for flowers from the cutting gardens as well as the ones we have to buy, and sufficient refrigeration for the others. Room to store the vases and containers, etc. A small rose cooler, a decent tropicals cooler...and a regular one with room for lots of variety.

If we book in weddings in the chapels, we can do the flowers, cater the reception in either the gardens or one of the great halls, and maybe even do a 'bed and breakfast-type' guesthouse for wedding guests, as well as a honeymoon cottage or two. :)

Hmm, that reminds me, I wonder if we're ordainable as our own order?

It might be possible. We'll need to see.

The Reverend Sibling Opsanus Tau presiding at weddings would be pretty cool.

Quote from: Sibling Lambicus the Toluous on November 01, 2006, 04:40:08 PM
And a big honkin' library would be vital, I think.

What sort of library?  I see one in two major parts:

* A big, open airy room, with lots of windows and many setting areas around comfy couches and low tables. Shelves tucked in between the windows where practical.  Fireplace at either end, for reading by. Gaslights, for reading at night (warmer light than electric - more nostalgic <heh> Efficient, too, and provide additional heat for cold nights. )

* But, to one side, the real bookstacks begin.  Too-tall stacks, requiring short step-stools to reach the upper shelves.  Narrow (barely wheelchair-enough-wide) so as to get the most in for the space.  Endless rows, with dark cul-de-sacs, and a low stools here and there, for a "quick read-through".  Large enough to connect to Library Space, of course. 'Ware the Librarian! (and don't call him a monkey ... )

Quote from: Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith on November 03, 2006, 12:45:23 AM
* But, to one side, the real bookstacks begin.  Too-tall stacks, requiring short step-stools to reach the upper shelves.  Narrow (barely wheelchair-enough-wide) so as to get the most in for the space.  Endless rows, with dark cul-de-sacs, and a low stools here and there, for a "quick read-through".  Large enough to connect to Library Space, of course. 'Ware the Librarian! (and don't call him a monkey ... )

I think for a proper library, we need a few things:
- lots and lots of interesting books, many of them very old
- multiple levels of mezzanines connected by a wrought-iron spiral staircase (know what I mean? The kind where all the pie-shaped steps are supported by a central round column) - with some sort of very Victorian-retro-funky "H.G. Wells-meets-the-ADA" elevator off to the side
- one of those ladders-on-tracks that they have in old libraries in movies   ;D

can we have the monastery tucked away high in the mountains just beside the sea in the middle of a desert surrounded by rolling fields and deep forests with majestic icebergs and waterfalls and glaciers and an oasis and trout streams and canyons.

on a tropical island

In antarctica

near my house so I can get there easily?

Thanks

Quote from: goat starer on November 06, 2006, 02:36:25 PM
can we have the monastery tucked away high in the mountains just beside the sea in the middle of a desert surrounded by rolling fields and deep forests with majestic icebergs and waterfalls and glaciers and an oasis and trout streams and canyons.

on a tropical island

In antarctica

near my house so I can get there easily?

Thanks

Ahh! You want the real monastery, rather than the dream one.

Just come on down.
and up.
and round.
and over.
and in.
and out.
and by...

I need high-speed internet access and an espresso machine; you can handle the rest ;) .

I'll ditto the high speed access, but Qwerty and I need a good supply of Barq's...

And a good massage therapist.

Then, we need high-end Hi-Fi equipment in every room , with a room  to store the CDs / Vinyl   ;D  . A BIG room.

/edit: I know I'm an unromantic person ;).

Let's try and remember we're daydreaming, eh?
This isn't the Specifications page, I'm expecting room dimensions and HVAC designs any minute... ::)
Wax a little lyrical, my siblings... :-*

A compounding room for homemade soaps and lotions and creams, scented with our own homegrown herbs and flowers.

Deep covered porches and balconies.

A completely up-to-date media room, with very thick doors and lots of soundproofing.

A roll-in therapy pool.

Need roll-on-off therapy pool. :)

Someone built my dream monastery - or close to what I'd want in Canada...!

http://www.rmi.org/sitepages/pid800.php

Quote from: Agujjim on May 12, 2007, 01:22:28 AM
Someone built my dream monastery - or close to what I'd want in Canada...!

http://www.rmi.org/sitepages/pid800.php

So, when are we moving in?

Toadily Awesome, Duje!

Below is a shot of the Sanctuary, where I spent part of the weekend with The Nice One and our significant otherses. It is a place where shell-shocked people (mostly soldiers) and their families go to recouperate.  We got to stay overnight in exchange for gardening chores because Nice One knows the project owner. Sweet!

It would make a nice Monastery as well. Note the other side of the roof sticking out to the left of the pine tree. This place was pretty big. Also note the pool in the garden in the foreground.

Can I get a trouser press? :irony:

And we definitely need a thermal spa spring. Just been to one in Turkey at Pamukkale. Water is warm, bubbly, and coolest thing of all, used to be a sacred pool in a temple of Apollo. Some of the columns are still in it.... :woot:

Still working on the design for the squid tower. That would require the monastery to be half up a mountain on the coast.

You'll get no objections from me for such a location. Sounds great!

If we can't find mountainous/beach frontage with a thermal spa, can we create an artificially heated spa? Solar powered, perhaps?

If I ever go ahead and pick up a site in the Kootenays, there are tons of natural hot springs.  I'll be that we could tap a thermal aquifer, and use the runoff from the spa to heat the greenhouse (maybe even the main building).  Not sure what one does with post-use spa water - not sure if it's wise to reinject into the aquifer.

Also could use a closed system geothermal heat exchanger that took the heat from the earth, or a combo system that permitted periodic pumping from a hot aquifer, and then kept hot using an exchanger.


May have mentioned this already, but I did find a lovely site a while back, halfway up a mountain from the sea (oceanview, although it's probably several kilometers away) that might work for Swato.  About 5 acres, and close but not too close to a decent-sized city; going for about $14,000.  Did I mention that it's in Korea?  Lovely area near the southwest coast.

I have a few locations in/at the Lysefjord in Norway in mind (google "prekestolen" for infos and pictures of the scenery). There are orchards too (and interesting marine wildlife).

Unfortunately that area I have in mind is not very sharp on Google Earth but if you want to check:
58°56' N, 6°6'East and surrounding area. The land North and West of the small islands would fit the profile.
There are lakes on the plateau about half up the mountain.
The climate is mild (good enough for fruit trees but probably ;) not for tropical varieties)

A self-suffient farm is a very good idea.  :)

Global warming may even allow the growing of vines in the not too far future.

Hm, maybe we should design the label for the bottles now.

can the roll in and out( even a lift too), solar (or natural hot springs)heated both deep( like an oriental soak tub) and shallow with a waterfall and grotto(but no going totally Hefner except on alternate Wednesdays maybe), fountain in the middle so the toadfish stay warm( do they do well with moderate warmth- not talking heated water or anything- totally seperate system) and close at hand for visiting, pool also be
indoor and out with a swim through?

sort of like here- but BIGGER
http://poolspanews.com/2003/042/042half.html (http://poolspanews.com/2003/042/042half.html)
you know on a sutibly grand scale

We'd need to find a way of responsibly treating the water - all those nasty chemicals need to go somewhere (even with a saltwater pool the effluent is full of nasties).  An oceanside location could probably be rigged to have a seawater pool which flushed through with the tides. Hmmm...

Ocean Intake -> Filters -> Geothermal heat exchanger (closed system) -> Pool -> Conservatory (floor troughs for heating and humidifying) -> Constructed mini saltwater estuary (biofiltration & cooling) -> Outfall

Depending on the size of the pool and water turnover rates, this may be safe to swim in without chlorination.  We might need a separate small-capacity pool for immune-compromised guests just in case.  Need some heavy-duty windmills or solar cells to drive the pumps, though.

Indoor/outdoor would be nice, but limited by the location (bad for winter).  However, having some canals through the monastery so that one could float from the pool room to the pub would be a good idea. ;D


EDIT:  WANT those exterior glass pocket doors for dividing living space and conservatory.  Didn't know such a thing existed.

right we do not want to add nasties to the environment.

As to the swim throug in and out-possibly coul use some sort of positive air flow to keep the cold from creeping in or have the physical barrier just below the water level so one only needs to dunk and hold breath for a moment(but deep enough through the passage so that anyone no matter how they are mobile can get through)


float from pool to pub-----  :woot:!!!!!

The monastery ought to have lots of roaming and grazing land for doggies , kitty cats , horsies , moo moo cows , GOATS  and other human friendly beasties .

Has anyone mentioned turrets , moats , drawbridges , hidden doorways , a deck off each bedroom , plenty of solar panels , plenty of skylights ,  wind generators , wind mills , a river running through it , a lake and treehouses .

.....sigh.......

At some point we'll have at least a virtual monastery that has those elements.  Probably even and Ele-ant pile you can explore.  There'll have to be some sort of virtual shrinking machine to get your avatar small enough to get in.  :mrgreen:

Dusting off an old thread.

Not quite fitting of 'Dream Monastery', but it came to me that the best way to make a fledgling physical Toadfish Monastery self-sustaining would be to set it up as a hostel. One could start with an existing building and slowly develop the grounds and extensions from there, provided you had the land.

I like the idea, alas, if we weren't so widely distributed...  :-\

Then ship-based (or raft/floating island)

Quote from: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on January 21, 2010, 01:07:59 PM
I like the idea, alas, if we weren't so widely distributed...  :-\

Well, at least one would have somewhere to stay when visiting. ;)

That it has the potential to happen is dream enough for now.

Quote from: Swatopluk on January 21, 2010, 01:30:03 PM
Then ship-based (or raft/floating island)

That reminds me an idea I had at TOP a while ago, why not making it a hot air balloon?
(http://www.sedona.biz/balloonmerrill3.jpg)
http://www.sedona.biz/balloonmerrill3.jpg

Ha! That's fantastic. But I think we could fit more of us in it if we just staked it to the ground and made it like a Moon Bounce.

Yes, a fine orchard and a lovely maze to walk through, especially during misty drifting morning fog....and at its  center... a small void atop a pedestal, a perfect place for pondering nothingness.

Hi Sheila! Perhaps you should introduce yourself in the Start Here (http://toadfishmonastery.com/forum/index.php?board=15.0) section of the forum. We promise we won't bite.  :)

Okay, so if we had an actual monastery, what if we just started simply- made it like a camp retreat? I think Aggie has touched on this idea.

We could start by taking over a bus shelter.

Ah, pish - lost a whole post.  Will get on it later. :P

If you log in, in another window you can get it back by hitting the back button I think...

BTW, thinking on a physical monastery, there is a free tool that is easy to use and very cool to visualize ideas:

Google SketchUp (http://sketchup.google.com/)

I'm trying to make a model of my dream house with it.

Quote from: MentalBlock996 on July 31, 2010, 12:56:48 PM
If you log in, in another window you can get it back by hitting the back button I think...

But usually the text will be cleaned. Happened to me when I refreshed before posting

Yeah, I don't know why they can't fix that.  Am I gonna have to fix that?

Ya mean in the Mafia sense, boss?

LOL!  Yeah apparently...

Quote from: MentalBlock996 on July 31, 2010, 12:56:48 PM
If you log in, in another window you can get it back by hitting the back button I think...

Sometimes it works, sometimes not.  Laptop was acting funny and backed me up a few pages, then the text disappeared when I forwarded back. :P

Quote from: Opsanus tau on July 30, 2010, 07:12:46 PM
Okay, so if we had an actual monastery, what if we just started simply- made it like a camp retreat? I think Aggie has touched on this idea.

We still need land, which is the crux of it.  I have some vague plans in that direction; with a piece of land, we could start things off with a small guesthouse / B&B and build from there.  I'm thinking about moving back to BC soon, and may be able to pick up a suitable piece of land within a few years.  The key is to pick up a piece of property outside of any city or town large enough to mess you around with development permits and the like; if it's out in the boonies one would probably be free to build some funky log cabins and the like to rent out to guests.

I've talked previously about one idea I had, which is to pick up a large piece of logged-out land (too common in BC) somewhere on the West Coast, plant it to bamboo, and put in a proper commercial campground.  This would pay the cost of land out quite quickly, once developed, and one could build up the Monastery while operating the campground.  Once the Monastery got large enough that it was somewhat self-sustaining, one could let part or all of the campground grow over, cut some walking paths through the bamboo forest, and redeploy the property as a tourist attraction rather than a camping destination.  A multi-acre bamboo grove is a rare thing in Canada, and would attract a fair number of tourists, I think.  Charge a couple of bucks (cheap! but adds up!) for admission, have a gift shop at the place to sell Toadfish-made crafts and souvenirs (bamboo of course, it's a great material to build stuff with), sell a yearly crop of fresh grown-in-BC organic bamboo shoots to the Vancouver restaurant scene - naturally, I'd plant edible bamboo - and it would probably have the capacity to support a few full-time live-in Toadfish Monks at a subsistence level.   I'd definitely plan to build some bamboo huts to rent out to guests, part-time Toadfish, artists-in-residence, and to act as accommodations for organized retreats and events (theatre labs, yoga retreats, whatever else we could concoct).  I'm also itching to make charcoal, and bamboo charcoal is currently in vogue amongst the health crowd, expensive and imported, so a local sustainable product should fetch a decent price.

Problem is, I figure I'd need at least $300,000 for the land on the Coast, and about $100,000 in hand for development costs (equipment, infrastructure, basic shelter and facilities), but perhaps not all of that immediately.  Land can be had a bit more cheaply in the Interior, but I'm not sure if bamboo would grow as fast (which means buying more plants to start with - pricey!), and it'd be nice to set up in an area that didn't get snow in the winter so that some sort of crops could be harvested for the kitchens year-round.  However, something like these could suffice, albeit a bit far off the beaten path:

http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=6729275&PidKey=-188893673
http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=9354982&PidKey=445653565
http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=9469794&PidKey=2021776505

OOH...  I like this one, 46 acres for $189k:
http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=9618493&PidKey=-277374189

Wow! I love the pond and waterfall!

I don't know what laws may be about transporting bamboo across the border, but I could get my hands on some bamboo for us. Whether or not it would be hardy in BC would need to be researched. What zone is it? I can find out what Mom's bamboo can tolerate. I know it's lived through sub freezing temperatures here. She's got more than she knows what to do with.

Not sure on coast vs. interior, but I have a feeling that transporting a tonne or two of bamboo clear across the continent may be a wee bit more expensive than buying it locally, even if they'd let it across.  Thanks for the thought, though!

There's a bamboo specialist nursery near Vancouver that sells plants of various sizes - I figure one would want some large clumps originally, and should be able to divide and transplant in a few years once those were established:
http://www.bambooworld.com/bamboo%20catalogue.htm

Most of the bamboos that I'd be interested in (produce good wood and edible shoots) seem to be relatively hardy and should take interior temperatures most of the time, but they'd all be suitable for the coast.

*double post*

OH, COOL!!!

Check this sucker out - great little guesthouse / greenhouse combo, DIY style:
http://www.innerexplorations.com/simpletext/green1.htm

(http://www.innerexplorations.com/greenhousejpg/casa04.jpg)  (http://www.innerexplorations.com/greenhousejpg/casa08.jpg)  (http://www.innerexplorations.com/greenhousejpg/18a.jpg)

Srsly - give me a little woodstove to heat the place and cook, and I'd live in that for a year or few....  :)

That is pretty cool!  Is it just one big room?

Looks like it is, but it wouldn't take much to bang up an interior wall if necessary.  I'd think one would want a pull-across curtain for privacy (between living and garden) in the bedroom area if this was for a rental cabin.

The straw-bale construction solves a niggling problem I've been wondering about with bamboo huts - how to insulate them.  This'd work with large bamboo.

Tremendously cool.

The nice thing about bamboo is that it spreads like nobody's business, so you never feel bad about cutting it down. It's nice and flexible, and you can use it for floors, countertops and all kinds of things.

Quote from: Aggie on August 04, 2010, 08:03:43 PM
*double post*

OH, COOL!!!

Check this sucker out - great little guesthouse / greenhouse combo, DIY style:
http://www.innerexplorations.com/simpletext/green1.htm

Srsly - give me a little woodstove to heat the place and cook, and I'd live in that for a year or few....  :)

I think you might need a nice supply of blankets for the winter too or maybe a down duvet or two but then you should be golden. ;D

Straw is a very good insulator and the house is adorable!

Now I would build it with considerable less room between the boards in the framework because unlike a brick or concrete wall, a straw-wall does not support the roof (and I'm used to weather conditions that includes snow which would easily break the construction in the photos). 
It will be hot and humid inside the house and good ventilation will be very important to avoid mould (I say you need a pro here).
Also, I would not use latex paint on the walls as it seals humidity in to the straw in the walls, which needs to breath to avoid rotting (white wash with limestone don't seal the surface entirely).

And I would cover the roof with Sedum and Sempervivum tectorum (Common Houseleek) plants.

:)

Don't forget ramps and hand rails for us elderly folk !

Advice noted - thanks!  

I'll admit that the 'last year's straw' thing worried me in terms of mould, and I did cast an eye to the lack of snow-worthiness (which could be a concern inland, but probably not on the coast).  I'm realistically thinking more along the lines of summer guesthouses than year-round residences, actually.  

Ventilation is certainly a big issue, as it would get pretty hot in there during the day, but nothing that a solar-powered fan system couldn't take care of, I think.

What I liked best is the hybrid use, which would make a unique place for a guest to reside, and would work as great little greenhouses in the off-season, for starting plants (could plant something ornamental during the guest season).

Very cool!



1. How many books can you fit into one of those?    ;)
2. And high-speed internets?  ;)

Interwhats?

LOL, you don't want to see what I have in mind for full-time Sibling rooms in any prospective Monastery, which would be based very much on some of the oil camps I've stayed in (although properly constructed and not in some grotty modular sheet-metal unit).  5' x 10', with a single bed and desk built into the wall, small wardrobe for storage... well enough for the purpose of sleeping, provided you've got enough living space around the Monastery.  Paying guests naturally need a little more pampering. ;)

That sounds like Monastery-like accommodations, and a nice way to get away from it all.

There is a monastery not too far from here (http://www.hcava.org/index.html) where anyone can go for a few days of quiet. Not that we'd be quiet!

Quote from: Aggie on August 04, 2010, 11:12:42 PM
Advice noted - thanks!  

I'll admit that the 'last year's straw' thing worried me in terms of mould, and I did cast an eye to the lack of snow-worthiness (which could be a concern inland, but probably not on the coast).  I'm realistically thinking more along the lines of summer guesthouses than year-round residences, actually.  

Straw is fine, you just need to learn how to treat it properly, but one needs to know that about the chosen building material no matter what it is made of.

I vote Darlica for construction project supervisor!

 :D

I'm not sure that would be wise...

For starters I'm on the wrong continent.

Then, I'm a sucker for redundancy so I usually chose thicker/tougher materials and constructions than actually needed so it's likely to end up rather expensive if I'm left to do things my way... :) 

I blame the choice of materials on my maternal grandpa who was a carpenter and liked whatever he built to last... and who taught me most of what I know about building materials and construction.
    ;D

Not a bad thing...  provided we can get our hands on the natural resources. 

Bamboo, I fear, is not a very durable building material, but logs are, and we have lots of 'em here, potentially.  Depends if the land's been logged or not.

Don't underestimate bamboo, provided it is handled expertly.
But it is of course less squid-safe.

 :stupid:
Total agreement, have you seen bamboo kitchen chopping boards? As to how economical is to process it to reach that kind of quality I have no clue.

The biggest problem that I've heard of is susceptibility to rotting in moist environments.  There are a few treatments that can help, but nothing that I've run across yet that would make it suitable for roofing, for example.  Interior and protected-exterior applications should be fine, but there seem to be limitations as a long-term primary construction material. I'd want main support beams to be made from timber, as far as I can tell. Supposedly it's vulnerable to insects and fungi as well, but perhaps not in a non-native (North American temperate forest) climate.

It's good strong stuff with a high tensile strength, otherwise, provided it's old enough (3 - 7 years) and seasoned correctly. I'm also going to poke around a little at whether it's possible to artificially petrify the stuff, given that the natural silica content is quite high (perhaps it'd work better than wood, which is a dream of mine).

Bags I don't dig out the moat.

I vote Grif to dig the moat... :mrgreen:

If we chose Norway, the fjord would be our moat. And we would not need a fourth wall since we would have the mountains at our back.

Quote from: MentalBlock996 on August 07, 2010, 01:50:58 AM
I vote Grif to dig the moat... :mrgreen:

I vote MB to dig the latrines ;D

Where's the shovel.... *sigh* :mrgreen:

Digging the latrines is fine, as long there isn't any latrine in them yet... :)

As far as I've heard, a good idea if trying to build an eco sustainable building with out building material that has been pumped with of chemical preservatives, is to use as much local timber as usual as it's more resistant (used to) to the local environment. 

When it comes to time and weather resistance very few materials beat Oak wood, Larch is a good runner up especially when it comes outside to constructions like porches and decks.
That said I've seen pine and spruce constructions that have been standing +200 years. So if treated right (or rather, not mistreated*) durability isn't a problem.

*The worst one can do to wood, the thing that surely make it mould and rot is to paint it with a plastic like paint or anything else that seals it in completely, it's actually far worse than leaving it untreated!

I'm partial to Tung Oil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tung_oil), but I don't know if it's used on exteriors.

I think it would be interesting to make a little eco-friendly model community or maybe timeshares based on tiny houses like so:

http://www.designboom.com/contemporary/tiny_houses.html

I wonder if there's a market for this?  Maybe set it up like a corporation and sell shares.  Everybody gets to vote their shares.  Licenses for convenience stores, public transportation, water and power generation are sold.  When I say power I mean, say there is a hilltop that's wind turbine suitable.  There could be options for storm shelters, storage space, garages, sewage treatment and a community center.  When there's enough money you can build your community.

I'd also like to do an eco-friendly salvaged building materials site.  Kinda like if you have some material that you don't need or want you can put it on the site and people could trade or buy salvaged materials.  Like eBay I suppose but without bidding?  A virtual junkyard?  Doesn't look like there's anything like this on the web.  I looked at GoDaddy for salvage.com but it's taken.  Anybody have a good idea for a domain name for this?  iSalvaged.com is available...


Edit:

I like the EarthBag construction thing.  I wonder if you could get some kind of continuous tubing, spray expanding foam in it and stake it together before it hardens?  Then you could cut your openings out after you have everything built?  That foam is expensive isn't it?

 :)

Right now it feels like I'm on the wrong continent...

Fantastic thoughts, MB. I just read an article about someone around here who built an Eco-shed (page two on your link, near the bottom) and it looked so neat! So you're saying we could make a small town.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.  If you planned it well in advance then you could have a put it together quickly.  Once you get all the licenses sold and the stock value gets high enough to build it should be self-sustaining.

I like the idea of the net-zero tiny houses.  That should make it fairly cheap to put in power generation if it's not readily available and/or cheap.  Of course you might put in a bigger generator than you need and sell that power back to the power company and use that to pay for your recurring expenses.

We might even be able to do almost net-zero with water using a shared cistern and some recycling technology.  Of course you're not gonna be able to sell water back but if you recycle it, even if it's just for flush water and irrigation, it should be far cheaper than an ordinary community.

If we did this sort of thing, setting up eco-communities, we could make some profit off management and setup, and have money for a real monastery.

I dunno.  Just thinking out loud...   

I've thought of the prospect of leasing out semiprivate on-Monastery-grounds little cabins for rental to resident artists or visitors who want to live there a few weeks of the year.  Sort of like a timeshare - if they weren't there, they'd be rented out for guest rooms by the Monastery, but they could book it for whenever they wanted.

Oh!  Absolutely!

There's quite a few companies here in Sweden that specialze in recycled building materials. Most of it is in the historical/semi-antique segment, taking dismantled window frames, roof shingles, parquet boards and similar stuff, reconditioning it and then selling it on to those who are renovating a period home and want to keep the original look and feel of the house or flat. Quite a few of these also make modern replicas of old stuff, including cable that looks like old linen or lead-covered cable and porcelain light switches, but with modern stuff cleverly disguised inside, so it conforms to modern legal and safety requirements.

There are also those who handle more modern materials, as a general "second hand"-store. One problem is that lots of semi-modern (1970'ies and onwards) building materials was hardly designed to be recyclable, and is almost impossible to re-use, such as various sorts of fibreboard and laminates.
Actually, I do know that this was raised as a concern at a recent meeting of architectural historians and modern archeologists here in Sweden -it might be nigh impossible to preserve a early seventies vintage flat in original condition!

Anyhow, considering how well it works here in Sweden, I am a bit surprised that no-one has set up anything similar in the US, or at least not as a webstore/exchange. I suppose that bulding materials often being large, bulky and heavy might have something to do with it. Likewise, I suppose the US has different building traditions than Sweden, with perhaps less material available for recycling, or less thought given to the idea of recycling. A friend of mine who visited the US was quite surprised at the amount of fibreboard and pasteboard used in US houses, so there might be quite a bit of cultural differences at play, too.

Still, a web-based building materials exchange sounds like a very do-able ide in my ears!  :)

Yeah, I think it would be good too.   There are lots of web sites that do the salvage thing but I was thinking why not make a Joomla component for salvage materials so all the sites would be the same.  Then they could share records.  We could store them all in a central database, then anybody anywhere could locate materials even though the data is on 50,000 one-off sites.

 MB Duje, I think you've hit on something, there. Please let me know if I can be of any help to you.

Lindorm, the US is so huge that there is really no 'typical', here. There's a wide range of fantastic homes and cheapo homes. As MB mentioned, we have loads of salvage resources (http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS364&=&q=building+salvage&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=C_lDC2KdqTNEVleCDBMeP-PYFAAAAqgQFT9BiO-M). I have several friends who have built nearby using recycled and salvaged building materials and interior features such as doorways and mantlepieces.

I like the idea of a little self-sufficient town retreat. Here's (http://www.newwest.net/topic/article/small_idaho_town_has_big_plans_for_energy_self_sufficiency/C564/L564/) an article about a little place in Idaho. Hmmm...

LOL!  I've been so busy lately.  If somebody wants to take this idea and run with it feel free to take it.  I'd do everything I could to help but there's no way I could do it alone.

Hmmm... 40 acres, under 100K, near Castlegar, which has a reasonable airport.  This one hasn`t been logged, so there will be timber to use for building, and forest to manage.

http://www.landquest.com/detailmain2.asp?prop=09377&curpage=4&search=price100

I read somewhere about some guy building using empty glass bottles. Apparently those are very efficient keeping a stable temperature.

^ except for the motivation to keep building and building... bigger and bigger... 
(http://www.chimpout.com/forum/images/smilies/tenerife-forum-drunk-smiley.gif)      :toasted:      :winebottle:

There are plenty of ideas for building.  I think the only important aspects would be net-zero utilities, eye appeal, structural soundness.

Fancy a ready-made off-grid Monastery on 32 acres?

http://www.greenhomesforsale.com/listing.php?id=18762

QuoteAnother highlight is the 10-15 year old fruit orchard that is just coming into production with 40 fruit varieties of apples, pears, cherries, apricots, and peaches.

Very nice area of Montana, too...  I was through here (generally) on holidays. 



_{I'd move to the US (part-time) for this property - the area is very very much like where I grew up.  Ski hill nearby, too.}

US$400K?!?!?!

That's a bit rich for my taste...

Hah!  That's a crappy bungalow in a bad neighbourhood, here.   An equivalent property in Canada would be at least $700K.  And we aten't far from dollar parity, so the exchange doesn't mean much.


_{hell, I can't find that much LAND in an equivalent area for that kind of price, let alone the off-the-grid house.}

And I'd be willing to pick up the slack on that place...you can have winter, though. ;) I hate snow more than anything.

If I can find a 167 acres property for ~$500K not that far from here (http://www.landandfarm.com/lf/asp/full_new.asp?id=200917) I'm positive you can find something cheaper in nowhere, MT...

It's actually Touristville, Montana, but that's on a relative basis, considering you are in Florida. ;)  I haven't been really looking at the US so it's not apples-to-apples; that one was a very random google result from a somewhat-related search.  Most (nicer-looking) off-the-grid green homes go for well over a million bucks, according to what's on the market in western Canada at the moment on the same site; prices are cheaper in the Maritimes.

I think it's ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS!!!!

That's a lot of land, and what seems to be a self-sustaining house. It seems a reasonable amount to pay for it. Glacier Park is amazing. I've been there.

It's probably freaky cold and snowy in winter, but with good insulation and fireplaces, you can stand it. I had a friend who moved back to Montana from here (mid-east US) because she was too cold in the winter here, where houses aren't built to keep warm.

It looks like the owners want to sell it someone who will continue the dream for them, and are willing to help finance the right person. Maybe you are what they're looking for?

Don't have the cash for that one, want to quit working to do this, so I need cash in hand. ;)


Unless I can find work in Montana....  :hmmm:


_{probably need lots of cash 'cos I'm Canadian, too.  :P}

I'd try to hook you up with the family I have in the area, Aggie, but it's like +6 hours away from teh house of glory and I dunno how much you know about cattle ranching.  :-\

There's oilpatch out thatta way (east, I presume - Alberta South), Scrib, presuming I was serious about it.  Which I'm not sure I am - I've got a buddy/co-homesteader that is talking about going halfers with me on finances and labour (currently in Burning Man, but I've emailed him the listing just in case), but would probably be even more reluctant than me to move stateside.  Besides, if we are looking in the US, something out your way (North CA or south OR) might be a better bet.  I'll wager there's more existing green houses out there.

Under $100,000 means the possibility of "retiring" at 30, albeit with no assets except a marginally liquid patch of land...  :D

Considering this one right now - has a good spring on it, apparently, which is a major bonus, and it's cheap enough to buy cash-in-hand (with two of us, by next spring).  The location leaves a bit to be desired (in the boonies), but access should be good and it's about 2 hours from Kelowna (decent airport) or Spokane, WA.
http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=9862949&PidKey=485110374

I'll keep scouting and have a few other candidates - should we start a separate thread / area somewhere more private for real-estate lust?

That looks nice, especially the views. The year-round spring is a definite plus. How's the weather there?

You can start another thread for private real estate lust, if you wish, but here is fine for potential Monastery property.

Weather should be not too cold in the winter, hot and dry in the summer, if I know the area (haven't tracked down exact stats).  The biggest problem with that property is the remoteness - not too far out for purposeful guests, but not likely to be a casual stay option for travellers.  I don't mind that overall, but having some summer tourists nearby could help fund some of the development.

This one bears another look (there are two similar properties adjacent, varying in size and price), as it's 5 minutes from a captive audience (ferry passengers, and presumably the odd person that's missed the last ferry of the night).  Could be good for hawking veggies or setting up a little coffee stand, that sort of thing:
http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=9863306&PidKey=-1999599556

The property above is a bust due to high-voltage power transmission lines being visible from the property.  Not the aesthetic I'm looking for in an off-the-grid project, especially with a bit of paranoia about EM radiation thrown in. ;) 

I had been hoping these lines ducked behind the mountain around the area of one of the lots, as suggested by Google Earth recon.  No dice. :P

Good thing you spotted that before you bought.

Quote from: Opsanus tau on September 30, 2010, 04:30:30 PM
Good thing you spotted that before you bought.

Good thing I spotted it before I wasted a weekend driving out there! :D 

I emailed the realtor; we are starting to get some professional help. 

With the land, not with the mental disorders driving us back to it.  :beta:

 :ROFL:

So is the realtor going to try to show you other properties that may suit you?

He's got nothing in his area (there are some creekside lots adjacent to these ones that may come on the market but may be more expensive).  I asked him to pass my requirements and contact info around to colleagues in other areas if he wants.  We have another realtor on the job from our end.

My list of key requirements is thus:

Necessary:
Minimum of 20 acres
Maximum price of $100,000 ($80K - $90K is ideal)
South exposure on a portion of the site - southeast is acceptable
Access to surface water or reasonable assurance that groundwater is easily available
Reasonable 3-season road access to property boundary
Level area on at least a portion of the site for building and gardening
Reasonable soil resources on a significant portion of site - i.e. not situated on bedrock

Preferred:
Year-round flowing creek or spring on site
Mature forest on part of site
Close proximity (<20 km) to tourist routes, major highways or recreational areas

It's very good to know what you want. It shows how serious you are.

Hang on, if you are expecting to sell produce, don't you need to be near somewhere there are buyers?

I'm not that set on selling produce as a primary income generator (it's a possible sideline, but I decided on back-to-the-land when I realized that I eat much less than $30,000 worth of produce).  The idea - say 5 years out - is that this will be developed into a retreat / guesthouse / hostel and the primary income will be made from people coming to stay (and maybe selling some handicrafts).  We are likely to be working winters in the 'real world' in the meantime to get money for development.  Both of us work in the oilpatch and can make a reasonable year's income in 4 - 6 months, if we work like dogs.  In the short term, the big 'money maker' really is to stop spending much of it - most of my out-of-pocket expenses are for rent and food.  I will be $20,000++ a year ahead of the game if I can provide those for myself.

If we're near a tourist route, we should be able to lure a few people in for produce sales, even if we're not near a farmers market.  The area we are likely to end up in also has a fairly significant mushroom industry, so mycoculture could be another angle to follow (and we could probably ship to market or work with a local mushroom broker).

An off-the-grid rustic-style resort sounds very cool.

Update on the site near Greenwood (not sure if I mentioned it before):

They just dropped the price on this one - could probably get it for 75k.   There's a good spring on the property, access is reasonable even in the winter (would require a plow, but only for 7 km), and it's Crown land on 3 sides.

The downside is there's no trees on it (surrounded by forests, but not on the property).   Good for farming and for growing bamboo, if the climate is cooperative, but bad for treehouses, so my associate may veto it.  Trees are a necessary resource for building, IMHO.  Otherwise, the exposure is perfect - southeast - and the surrounding land would let one build trails into the forest any which way.

I'm pushing for us to at least take a look.  Not too much else comparable on the market at the moment; we may have to be patient.

http://www.townandcountry4sale.com/Acreages.ubr/Details/323/details

I did notice that there may be a road running through the place, and suspicious that there may be some mining interests underneath it - bears more investigation.  I'll talk to the realtor again...

Were the trees harvested or is it just naturally open?

It was logged, some time ago.  Looks to be generally re-vegetated.  I'm sure it'd grow a forest again, but that takes time.

I'm ideally looking for about a 70/30 forest/clearing ratio, if possible. This one's more like 10/90.  There might be enough trees on it to make it worthwhile, but tough to tell without a site visit.  I'm worried about the roadway - depends if it's on a proper easement or just happens to go through there.  If it's not a legal road allowance we could keep traffic out of there easily enough, but we may have to let 'em through.

If you want to build and grow veg, then cleared land is great. Some trees can be grown rather quickly. A public thoroughfare seems like a downside, though.

We are BC boys, so a proper tree has needles instead of leaves and is at least 50 years old. ;)  Besides that, we need wood for building if we want to do it on the cheap.  A small portable sawmill is much cheaper than lumber.

Could be a mining claim on it, too - will find out today.   There are some other options showing up, but most are significantly more expensive.