Diamond Lanes

[ivor]

In the US there are special lanes on the freeway for people that carpool.  These lanes are marked with a diamond symbol.  Essentially it means that any vehicle that uses this lane needs to have more that one person in it.

I really don't think the diamond lanes get used very much by anyone except violators and families on vacation. 

My suggestion to increase the popularity of hybrid vehicles would be to allow hybrid vehicles to use these lanes even though they only have one person in them.

[Sibling Lambicus the Toluous]

Hmm... personally, I don't like the idea of hybrid cars in the diamond lane.

If the diamond lanes near you aren't being used, there's probably one of three things happening:
- the road agency got it wrong, and they're not needed (which is less likely than most people probably think)
- the road agency knows about a surge in demand that's coming (a new subdivision or commercial development, perhaps?) and wants the infrastructure in place before people's new mobility habits become ingrained
- even though the diamond lanes aren't needed right near you, the road agency wants diamond lane connectivity between areas where the lanes are required

My feeling is that high-occupancy vehicle (HOV) lanes should have congestion reduction as their primary purpose.  And congestion itself increases pollution - it takes more fuel to go a given distance, and increases emissions per km (or per mile) dramatically. 

In congested conditions, every extra car you add to the traffic stream makes every other car pollute more.  Any improvement in emissions that's made by the fact that that extra car is a hybrid is quickly offset by the increased delay and emissions that the hybrid car causes for all the other traffic.

Given the high level of congestion in most major cities, it would probably be "cleaner" for a couple to carpool in an SUV than it would for them to commute separately as single-occupants of two hybrid cars.

But all that's secondary... still, HOV lanes are there primarily to combat congestion and delay, which are things that have their own significant negative effects all on their own.  If they get people into transit or carpooling, then that has side effect that's beneficial for the environment, but it's not the primary purpose of HOV lanes.

[Aggie]

Just a couple of questions for those that have HOV lanes nearby (I think there might be one in Calgary, for less than a km??? )

a) Does anyone actually pay attention to the signs and refrain using the lanes during periods of congestion?
b) How are these enforced, if at all?  Seems dangerous to pull people off a freeway in rush-hour...
c) Do they actually reduce congestion, more than simply making another lane available would?

It's a beautiful idea to have these lanes, but I'm a little sceptical that they work... if a significant % of cars on the road actually switched to carpooling, the HOV lanes would end up pretty congested.  There must be an equilibrium point....

[Sibling Lambicus the Toluous]

There are lots of HOV lanes in and around Toronto, on both freeways and arterial roads.

a) From what I've seen, the HOV lane compliance is pretty poor on the arterial roads.  On the freeways, it tends to be quite good.

b) The police patrol the roads; if you aren't driving a bus, or don't have the requisite number of occupants, you get pulled over.  On the freeways, this is usually onto the median shoulder, since the HOV lanes are on the left (they're on the right on the arterial roads).  IIRC, I believe all the freeways with HOV lanes have adjacent shoulders.

c) For cars alone around here, the congestion reduction probably isn't that much (though I think there is a measurable reduction).  The main benefit I see is that it makes the commuter buses much quicker, and makes their travel time less variable... and therefore makes them more viable as an alternative to driving.

[Aggie]

c) For cars alone around here, the congestion reduction probably isn't that much (though I think there is a measurable reduction).  The main benefit I see is that it makes the commuter buses much quicker, and makes their travel time less variable... and therefore makes them more viable as an alternative to driving.

Makes sense.  Calgary has the lovely policy of making traffic as snarly and parking as ridiculously priced as possible downtown to force people into taking transit, and then neglecting to upgrade transit systems sufficiently to deal with the ridership, particularly on poor weather days (both the roads and the transit get hopelessly congested - major bus routes can have 3-bus waits for pickup, even near the start of the route). 

Parking fine laws had to be rearranged here, because it was getting to be cheaper to simply leave one's car on the street and take the ticket, than to park in a pay lot. 

[Griffin NoName]

Calgary has the lovely policy of making traffic as snarly and parking as ridiculously priced as possible downtown to force people into taking transit, and then neglecting to upgrade transit systems sufficiently to deal with the ridership, particularly on poor weather days (both the roads and the transit get hopelessly congested - major bus routes can have 3-bus waits for pickup, even near the start of the route). 

We have that policy here too. It works well as a method of promoting stress levels. Possibly a plot by Big Pharma?

19th Feb sees the further erosion of West London by the extension of Red Ken's Congestion Charging. It's not even implemented and today they announced he is planning to destroy sections of the community in South London in the same way. We need legislation. Ban rich people.

[Aggie]

We have that policy here too. It works well as a method of promoting stress levels. Possibly a plot by Big Pharma?

I think it's the big office-corps that encourage it... one avoids traffic by showing up an hour early and leaving an hour late (and therefore ensuring that said traffic snarls wake me up by 6:30 AM).  Or just skive off early...

[ivor]

When traveling through Phoenix seems to me that very few people are using them or using them unlawfully. 

Americans don't generally car pool. I think we're too attached to our cars.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Down here there is a reasonable amount of compliance and enforcement. Depending on the level of congestion the HOV is more used, for example in Miami-Dade you see the HOV fairly used and moving at 40mph (average speed at non-rush hour is between 60 and 75) while the rest of the highway is moving ( ) between 0 to 20 mph. Once you move north the (Ft. Lauderdale, Palm Beach) the HOV is less used but the traffic is far less congested. IOW if traffic is terrible HOV lanes motivate people to carpool.

Oh, I forgot, bicycle lanes also have a diamond here so, unless you have a 2 seater, "bikepooling" is discouraged.

[Sibling Lambicus the Toluous]

Americans don't generally car pool. I think we're too attached to our cars.

Not even with spouses and significant others?   

Dropping hubby/wifey off at work isn't usually considered "carpooling", but it does increase vehicle occupancy.

Makes sense.  Calgary has the lovely policy of making traffic as snarly and parking as ridiculously priced as possible downtown to force people into taking transit, and then neglecting to upgrade transit systems sufficiently to deal with the ridership, particularly on poor weather days (both the roads and the transit get hopelessly congested - major bus routes can have 3-bus waits for pickup, even near the start of the route). 

Is that because the buses are infrequent?

It's struck me that Calgary likely has the same problem of many cities: the suburbs are rather low-density, so it takes inordinate amounts of money to get decent frequency on transit routes (because the transit demand is spread out over such a large area)... which is political suicide for any politician, unless they can offset the cost of transit with revenue... which they can't get if they can't get the ridership they need... but they can't get decent ridership because the suburbs are spread out so much it takes a multi-hour trip to get from any given suburb to anywhere anyone would want to go.



There's a program run by the Chambers of Commerce in a few Toronto suburbs that shows a lot of promise called "Smart Commute"... they have a team that visits local businesses, administers a survey to their staff, and gives recommendations on how the business can improve the commute for their employees, thereby making them happier at their jobs (which provides benefit to the employer, like decreased turnover).

Most of the recommendations don't cost anything... one example they gave was for a hotel: the management didn't realize that the cleaning staff shift change was an hour before daily bus service started on the adjacent street.  By changing the shift change time, they allowed their staff to take transit if they wanted to.

[Aggie]

Is that because the buses are infrequent?

It's struck me that Calgary likely has the same problem of many cities: the suburbs are rather low-density, so it takes inordinate amounts of money to get decent frequency on transit routes (because the transit demand is spread out over such a large area)... which is political suicide for any politician, unless they can offset the cost of transit with revenue... which they can't get if they can't get the ridership they need... but they can't get decent ridership because the suburbs are spread out so much it takes a multi-hour trip to get from any given suburb to anywhere anyone would want to go.

Bang-on, although buses are fairly frequent during rush hour.  Other times, most routes are 30 or 45 (!) minutes between buses.  The major bus routes from the suburbs to DT fill up in the outer limits of the city, and then are full all the way in, so paradoxically, it can take longer to bus in from a nearer spot.  There is some success here with Park n' Ride... the city offers free parking near many of the further-flung C-train stations - but this ends up creating the same type of challenges as the buses (full from the first stop) on bad-weather days.  My boss has sat and waited (inevitably in miserable weather) for 3 buses to go past to get a spot, bussed to the train, and then waited for 3 trains for a spot...  total commute time of 1.5 h or more, and it's about 15 km.

I've been focusing on downtown here too...  but the light industrial areas are even worse, with infrequent and sparsely distributed bus routes - plus, without the parking fees.  Lots of slow side roads here in rush hour.  And catching a residential - to - residential bus route?  Hah!  Forget it!

[Sibling Lambicus the Toluous]

I've been focusing on downtown here too...  but the light industrial areas are even worse, with infrequent and sparsely distributed bus routes - plus, without the parking fees.  Lots of slow side roads here in rush hour.  And catching a residential - to - residential bus route?  Hah!  Forget it!

Around Toronto, the regional transit system is geared to funneling people from the suburbs to downtown in the morning, and dispersing them back to the suburbs in the evening.

This strategy ignores the fact that most people in the suburbs no longer work in downtown office towers at 9-5/M-F jobs... in fact, suburb-to-suburb commuting is becoming increasingly common.