Do you hear what you read?

[The Meromorph]

I don't. I hear a lot of people say they do.
Along the lines of Stephen Pinker's model of 'faculties of mental processing', I believe what's going on may be that:

Some (few?) peoples reading is mediated through their speech centers, then to their 'Language Processor'. These are the people whose lips move when they read.

Some (most?) peoples reading is mediated through their auditory centers, then to their 'Language Processor'. These are the people who read at 'normal' speed.

Some (few?) peoples reading is not mediated by either specch or auditory centers and goes (directly? or mediated by their visual processors?) to their 'Language Processor'. These are the people who read preternaturally fast. I'm one of these; on a day off I'll often read three books.

Has anyone here had any 'speed reading' training? I've  tried to do this, but their intial assessment testing always shows I read faster than they think they can achieve with their training - they tell me to go away. I'm wondering if anyone who has been so trained experienced a stopping of hearing what they read.

What do you think?

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

While I do not hear what I read, I do not move my lips, either.

Usually, the reading is a background-process, to the story, which is very visual and vivid.

I suppose, it stems from years of lucid dreaming - reading a book, if I really "get into" it, is like a daydream to me.  Sometimes to the point, I loose track of my body, and it's not until I stop, that I realize how uncomfortable my limbs are (or, that they've gone to sleep). 

I have analyzed my methodology.  I do not look at individual letters, but rather look at the outline-shapes of the words.  That is, if you colored-in all the spaces and "holes" between the letters, more-or-less, that is what I'm paying attention to. (Is why I don't like odd fonts, either.)

And, I do not bother to read the articles, like "the" "or" "a" "and" and thelike. I know, in proper English, that they are there, and I just sail along reading the verbs, subjects and enough of the adverbs to get the author's point.  But, none of this is a conscience process, unless I slow down and really concentrate on what it is I'm doing.

Yet, although I read fast, I'm no where nearly as fast as your 3 books a day.  It's more like I'll take 4 to 8 hours to finish a good novel (like a Prachett's discworld book).  The variance depends on how tired my mind is-- the more tired, the slower I read.

Subject matter has a big effect, too. Non-fiction, since there isn't a vivid story-line to visualize, is much slower going, for me.  I suppose it's why I don't read much non-fiction anymore.

Non-standard English will slow me down, too, as I must read all those non-standard articles "the", "a" "and" and the like.

I suppose the only time I "hear" the words, is if I'm reading a conversation ...

[Sibling Chatty]

I've never heard what I read.

As to speed reading training, I had a classroom form of it in 7th grade...1964??

There were card boxes with these big 'story cards' that you timed yourself on, then did a comprehension test and checked it. The goal was to improve speed by at least 20% during the semester, and to raise comprehension by half the amount between original % and 100%.

As I remember, average speed is about 200 WPM and comprehension is 60%. I started at 500 WPM with 95% comprehension, so I couldn't "fit the expected curve" and upset the teacher. The company that provided the materials sent a representative to 'work with me' for a week. They decided to 'invalidate' my participation in the trial, but encouraged me to "work with the program" and doubled the numerical and grade level of boxes available to the class.

At the end of the semester, I was reading about 1,500 WPM except for technical stuff, where I slowed to 1,100. Comprehension was between 95 and 100%, depending on whether I cared about it or was just 'doing the drill'. 24 hour retests on comprehension did not drop much, indeed it took over a week for retention to drop below 90% on almost anything.

(That's when they did all the crappy MENSA stuff.)

As usual, anything with numbers was my downfall. Imagine my shock to find out at age 22 that I was "profoundly" dyslexic. (The speculation is that with a normal IQ, I would be unable to read.) During my first surgery, the intubation was done imprecisely and I suffered minor brain damage. I would imagine my skill levels are substantially lower that previous levels, as I recently got the results of the testing done post recovery, and the drop was...noticeable, though not devastating.

OK, I googled and did this:
http://www.readingsoft.com/

Speed was 590 WPM, comprehension was 95%. I'm slower, but I still understand.

[Sibling Lambicus the Toluous]

Hmm... 309 wpm, 100% comprehension.  Considering that's without coffee, I'd say I'm happy with it.   

Myself, I don't generally "hear" what I read.  I tend to get the general meaning of a sentence without it consciously going into my "verbal" processor.  As a consequence, when I read a passage, I can usually tell someone what it was about, but I can't give direct quotes.

[The Meromorph]

Hmm!. That was interesting (the online test). 917 @ 100%
I am considerably slower reading a computer screen than I am with a book. And I just found out why! (I should be 'awake' more! ) When I'm reading a book, I'm definitely not hearing what I'm reading, but on a screen, I am hearing what I'm reading (or typing)
I am surprised, I'm going to have to think about that.
I suspect I don't have the introspective skill to figure out why.

[silent_contemplation]

Well...842 wpm with 100% accuracy. Not too shabby considering my last caffeinated beverage was awhile ago. I too tend to read slower on computers. Back when I had time to read without interruption, I could easily finish off 3-4 midsize novels a day. I also mentally edit out words such as "the, and, a" etc...

The only time my lips move when I read is while I'm studying. Otherwise, it's all processed in my head.

[Sibling Chatty]

I did some further research.

The person who discovered my dyslexia is a testing guru, and 32 years later, we're still in touch. She had me do an on-line test that she set up for me, then 2 more afterwards. My average reading speed in about 750 WPM on a screen. Comprehension is 98-100%. This is approximately a 15% drop in average speed from the testing I did for her 15 years ago, adjusted for screen versus paper, but at that time I was severly ill. Post-surgery, with the oxygen deprivation, she expected an even further drop, but the difference in well versus ill skewed the numbers.

We're going to try some "how do you feel today?" testing and see what impact my physical condition has on my reading speed. She STILL wants me to sue MD Anderson for the brain damage during the original surgery, but it would be hard to find a sympathetic jury if you look at numbers versus percentage points.

It seems that I don't miss a word, not any tiny word, and I can quote verbatim on most of what I read for at least half a day. However, and she points this oun regularly, my brain is not normal. Just call me Abby.

[Swatopluk]

The hearing question is interesting. Noemally I'd say no but under certain conditions yes. If I get audio input before reading that may have two effects. A speaker I have heard before may read the text to me in my head. Sometimes that happens automatically but I can also do it intentionally. The second effect is a slow-down because reading aloud is slower than mute reading.
I usually read slower than actually necessary, i.e. I could run through the text to just get the info (I don't know my top speed) but normally don't.
It's also depending on the type of text (content and presentation form). Texts I have but don't like to read are usually very slow (and causing drowsiness).
If I go from one type of mental input to another this can also have an effect on perception. If I for example watch a funny movie, the reading of a serious text directly afterwards can be hampered because I try to understand/get the jokes that aren't there.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

I guess I'm the slow guy here: 251 wpm, 91% (I missed one question). Certainly I do hear what I read (I can tell with english because the pronunciation is different from the phonetic spanish or from words pronounced differently by brits like 'either'). As a programmer it makes perfect sense that a visual path is more efficient than the auditive processor (people like me is literally loosing cycles), the question would be, what can be done to optimize the process, and/or if it is actually possible to use the visual path once the auditive path has been used for so long?

I remember taking some speed-reading classes when I was in high school. I was a 'rebel' those days and I didn't took much advantage from it. It was based on the idea of reading lines instead of words (I wonder if that training actually helps changing the path).

Meh, I doubt there is much I can do now... 

[Sibling Chatty]

I'd bet your speed in Spanish is much higher.

Back in my class, in the Dark Ages, one guy who'd been is US schools since 2nd grade didn't do as well as expected (they had our IQ scores and were second-guessing the program.) They tested him in German, his original language, and he doubled his raw score immediately.

Unless the primary and secondary languages are pretty much interchangable and were learned that way, there's no way you can do as well in the secondary language. And 91% on the comprehension is pretty remarkable. Unless you've been using the secondary language almost exclusively for about 10 years, they don't expect more that 75% or so.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

7 years in the States, and I doubt it would be exclusively given the spanish at home only policy (I want my kid to be as fluent in spanish as in english).

In spanish I might do better although I'm not sure that it will be much better.

Also it would be nice to have a relation with easier texts and the more dense type. I dare anyone to read Kant at those speeds and get the same comprehension level...

[Griffin NoName]

So tired I can hardly think - I've been up far too long and socialising which is utterly exhausting for me. Still I couldn't resist doing the test as sleep is nowhere nearby. 312/73%. Presume if I did it when I haven't used up the daily energy it would be totally different. Doing it again tho would seem like cheating as I will remember some of it.

I normally speed read and can get through a book a day. But my life is no longer normal and I cannot read a book within one month even.

I read in chunks. ie. my eyes dart between bits of three consecutive sentences at the same time until they are swallowed up inside my brain, then I move on to the next three sentences. I think I actually use my left and right eye separately focusing on diferent sentences. My eye(s) takes in three or four words at a time in a chunk and will recheck a word if it hasn't registered in my brain. So, for anyone who knows about I/O operations in IT, what I do is have about three buffers in my brain, taking chunks in sort of arbitrarily, do an internal shift and sort between them, and come up with a final output which isn't what I've read but the sense of what I've read, with any beautiful or important words/phrases noted.

I don't hear what I am reading/seeing but I speak it inside my brain - that seems to be the input method to the buffer and is why the sorting is needed as the words may not get spoken inside my brain in the order written, and if they are, they may actually come from different sentences. The speaking in the brain is nothing like speaking aloud or thinking. It's more like writing the stuff onto the buffered brain cells.

EDIT Just read what I've written. It sounds mad; please someone tell me they read like this too !!

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Funny the I/O buffer thingy. I frequently glance at a page and a bell sounds if a keyword is there but I don't know where and I have to quickly check it to find out where the word/small phrase was. It is as if a background process were there doing a raw validation but barely on the conscious level.

I have experienced the buffer also but mostly when I am/was listening a language I haven't mastered or a very thick accent; I listen intently and store the sounds in a buffer for post-processing, and translate. It is exhausting -in a case it was the only way to understand a fast and heavy scottish accent when I worked for BP back home (and I wasn't speaking english every day)- ; happens also when I listen to RFI in french (and even then I just get the gist) or people talking in italian.

[Griffin NoName]

WOW! Relieved to hear you use a buffer sometimes too. Do you hear a bell sound? My signifier is a sort of click, but not a sound, more like a clicking feeling like the feeling a train must have when it jolts the carriage connections - like the significant word/phrase doesn't sit properly in the buffer.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Perhaps not 'hear' per se, but a definite warning of information lost.

Other case in which I use the buffer is while doing ear training (curiously I saw today an old post in miscellaneous on that topic and while doing the test I was consciously using it), I try to store as much information from the sample and then process (in the test was comparison, in ear training lessons is usually to determine an interval, chord or progression).

While reading is different but similar: if a phrase or paragraph didn't register, I get that 'click'/error warning and re-read it more carefully.

I would guess that we all use buffers but are only aware of them when the processing time is long enough to notice a background thread.

[Swatopluk]

I get the impression that my brain sends a scouting party ahead in texts I am reading. That way bits of info enter the half-conscious parts before the reading train arrives along the lines. Occasional side effect: if the bit info turns out to be wrong or mixed up, the train may come to a screeching halt because the expected doesn't turn up and the fact has to be confirmed.
The brain also tends to edit before transmitting it to the conscious mind. That can make proof-reading a quite demanding job. This edit can also be complete nonsense but the same edit happens several times at rereading. May indicate a holistic approach to understanding a text fragment, i.e. not the single word is processed but a larger complex.

[Scriblerus the Philosophe]

808 WPM on screen, with an 82% comphrension rate. >< Missed one because I waivered and went with the second answer that popped into my head.

I read a little weird, I guess. I don't hear or see it so much as have this vauge see-it thing (sort of like I'm seeing it through a fog), though only with action scenes. Everything else is just there.

[Outis the Unready]

I flash read. I was a special case when I was a kid and had lots of studies and electrodes and cat scans and xrays and the rest....I watched the technology grow, heh....I took this test before and maxed it out, no surprise.

When I see a page, my eyes don't move left to right, but down and sometimes up.

I'm ambidexterous and a mild syntheste (color for sound if there is not strong other color, I got it a lot as a child in the white rooms with beige desks and it is very distracting) and they thought I was dyslexic for a while (like most ambis, I actually have a hard time discerning left from right, and when asked to draw a letter not in a word "s" instead of "ask" I was about 50% likely to reverse it through 8th grade.)

It wasn't until I met a very good physical therapist that we knew it's just that my brain is not like yours.

In terms of scary online tests, on another one I score firmly in the autistic range. There is a guy studying people who've never been considered autistic who probably are who probably is going to add me to his study...

So, that being said, I, too, get the train speeding ahead. Since I don't read right to left, signs that are brightly lit or seen from a moving car or both tend to shift vertically, and I read things that aren't there....especially if the things are things I am thinking.

We had a scary church nearby and I would read things like:

Know Christ in this life or
miss him in the next

as

Know Christ's sex life.

[The Meromorph]

I'm beginning to suspect this is a very under-examined area of brain function...

[Griffin NoName]

I agree Quasi.

I was struck by Outis reading up and down. Mine is diagonal top left to bottom right of a paragraph.

If I pick up a Hebrew book I reverse everything without thinking about it - ie. opening book the other way round and reading right to left (I cannot read Hebrew diagonally).

[Outis the Unready]

I'm beginning to suspect this is a very under-examined area of brain function...

I just applied to a doctoral program in neuroscience. I watched the equipment, and now I want to use it.

[The Meromorph]

I'm beginning to suspect this is a very under-examined area of brain function...

I just applied to a doctoral program in neuroscience. I watched the equipment, and now I want to use it.

Dare we hope that this might be a suitable subject? 

[Outis the Unready]

My personal focus is re/degeneration, but I still will always watch this stuff...I think we are not careful enough with how we research kids and learning, and I don't have the patience for working on learning-type research.

My interests are largely equipment based....types of imaging.
(That, and I'm convinced Alzheimers is caused by a fairly unstable prion....just FYI, I think it will take another 30 years to prove that, but I've got at least that..)

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

My personal focus is re/degeneration, but I still will always watch this stuff...I think we are not careful enough with how we research kids and learning, and I don't have the patience for working on learning-type research.

My interests are largely equipment based....types of imaging.
(That, and I'm convinced Alzheimers is caused by a fairly unstable prion....just FYI, I think it will take another 30 years to prove that, but I've got at least that..)

Isn't mad cow also a prion?  Does that make alzheimers a sort of "human mad cow" disease?  At least, it does not appear to be transmitted easily.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I've always been interested in this, too: "My personal focus is re/degeneration".

I have some personal experience in nerve regeneration.  I had a wisdom tooth pulled many years ago, and it caused a numb spot on my lower lip.  The surgeon said it likely was permanent, but might regenerate.  It did-- it took about a year.

Then, I had a nasty accident with my left hand. My left thumb was severely damaged on the end/tip. For about 2 years, the skin had zero sensitivity to touch.  Only the deep receptors functioned (you had to press hard to get feeling).

But, about 2 years later, I realized the skin had normal sensitivity, and would respond to a very light touch as well as any other finger.

I've since read that nerve tissue CAN regenerate in the outer limbs and in skin.  It's just the central nervous tissue that lacks the capability.

[Aggie]

(That, and I'm convinced Alzheimers is caused by a fairly unstable prion....just FYI, I think it will take another 30 years to prove that, but I've got at least that..)

I'm reading an admittedly pop-science book that suggests a significant amount of seniors diagnosed as having Alzheimers may actually have CJD.

Prion diseases thoroughly scare me.