Bacterial Contaminants in Veggies

[Aggie]

Srsly, I understand the reasons we need to watch meat, eggs, etc for salmonella, escherichia and their ilk, but how the heck is this stuff getting into veggies on an industry-wide level?

(in the US - there are some obvious reasons in Mexican produce production)

From what I've read, the latest tomato-related Salmonella Saintpaul outbreak might actually be inside the tomatoes.

W..... T..... F..... ?   



I am becoming completely paranoid of the entire food industry.  It's scary!

[pieces o nine]

Don't eat the KILLER TOMATOES!!!

I also saw a screaming panic-monger headline on a mag in the check-out aisle about the Hideous Poisons on lettuce. Some of you sibs may remember the "And we are *ALSO* proud to boycott lettuce in the Great State of  (insert your state name here)  during speeches and House votes in a past election...

So I'm wondering how much of this is legit; how much is whistlblowing on covered-up issues, and how much is manufactured to distract from serious issues.

[Aggie]

The Hideous Poisons on lettuce (and damned near everything else) are real, I'm aware of them and can easily choose to avoid them for the most part.  Those Hideous Poisons are put there intentionally by industry. 

I'm not disputing or downplaying the role that spin & politics might be playing here with regards to the media attention and public reaction - but I'm personally more concerned about / interested in where these Hideous Bacteria are being introduced in the first place.  The presence of human pathogens in animals is  relatively clear-cut IMO, and relatively easily dealt with by proper cooking techniques.  I can think of how but not why this stuff is being introduced into vegetables intended for raw consumption - it's the why that troubles me.

[Alpaca]

Reminds me of my parents' tales of their trip to India some years before I was born, when they didn't eat anything that wasn't cooked or could have potentially been washed with water.

I think part of the issue comes from the nature of agriculture as an industry. We may neatly segregate our various vast acres of crops, but wind, water, and such don't care, so the deadly poisons that are useful on one plant can get transferred to another.

Otherwise, centralized food processing may be responsible. If something gets contaminated in the plant, then it can affect all of a particular food, no matter where it originally came from.

[Griffin NoName]

From what I've read, the latest tomato-related Salmonella Saintpaul outbreak might actually be inside the tomatoes.

Someone genetically engineered samonella to acquire skin piercing functionality?

[Aggie]

I think part of the issue comes from the nature of agriculture as an industry. We may neatly segregate our various vast acres of crops, but wind, water, and such don't care, so the deadly poisons that are useful on one plant can get transferred to another.

I'm sure it's tied into monoculture industrial farming, but can't think of a reason Salmonella would be
used at all (and can't recall if it's ever free-living or if it's dependent on an animal host).  Possible contamination from a captive feeding operation is the only thing that comes to mind - chicken farms etc., but not adjacent veggieculture.  This is a different ball of wax than cross-contamination with pesticides or industrial chemicals.

Someone genetically engineered samonella to acquire skin piercing functionality?

Something's up (I can't swear by the assertion that it's inside...  it was a side mention in one article).  Possibility of incorporation during pollination....?*  Contamination of the wax/coatings used before shipping....?**  Spinach seemed like less of a mystery given the surface area of the leaves and the heavy pre-washing it gets prior to sale (for bagged product) - lots of chances to pick something up.

My guess on the tomatoes is that it's got to do either with irrigation water, possibly due to contact with factory farm runoff, animal-crap based fertilizers, or processing/packing procedures.  Pretty wide guess, that. 


<sub>*Bees as a vector would not surprise me these days, with mobile hives.  Bees themselves are getting weird disease issues.

**Apparently cherry tomatoes and 'on the vine' tomatoes are OK so far; I suspect both are stored for shorter periods of time and less coating crap is necessary.  The on-the-vines also would be less likely to have bacteria introduced at the stem scar....  because the stem is still on.</sub>

[ivor]

I heard something about wild hogs walking around in the fields.  Their all over Florida.

[Scriblerus the Philosophe]

I read about this at work--they took away my favorite sandwich because it has tomatoes. 

It wouldn't surprise me it they got watered with lagoon water (water run-of from dairy cattle and so on--it's some seriously nasty stuff) but I don't know if ordinary salmonella can be absorbed that way.
Might explain how it got in there, though.

With the pesticides, you should be mostly ok if you watch where you get it from. Avoid imported produce, as a general rule.
This isn't the best list, but it correlates with everything else I've ever read about the subject. The listed produce changes from study to study, but strawberries, apples and cantaloupes are always on the list.
Wish I still had my old environmental science text from high school. That thing was amazing for these sort of things.
This is also a good thing to read if you're worried about this sort of thing.
_{I did a project on this last year. Pretty damn scary. I don't eat much in the way of anything that isn't grown around here, and I prefer to buy from roadside farms, since I've found (and we tested this) there are fewer pesticides in fruit and vegetables from those places. We found Dursban in some of the strawberry samples--trace amounts but it was still there. We also found in the air around here--out of season.}

[Aggie]

With the pesticides, you should be mostly ok if you watch where you get it from. Avoid imported produce, as a general rule.
This isn't the best list, but it correlates with everything else I've ever read about the subject. The listed produce changes from study to study, but strawberries, apples and cantaloupes are always on the list.
Wish I still had my old environmental science text from high school. That thing was amazing for these sort of things.
This is also a good thing to read if you're worried about this sort of thing.
_{I did a project on this last year. Pretty damn scary. I don't eat much in the way of anything that isn't grown around here, and I prefer to buy from roadside farms, since I've found (and we tested this) there are fewer pesticides in fruit and vegetables from those places. We found Dursban in some of the strawberry samples--trace amounts but it was still there. We also found in the air around here--out of season.}

Diet for a Poisoned Planet by David Steinman is a good reference re: pesticides (never mind his Scientology connections).

[Griffin NoName]

This may sound incredibly simplistic, but I just want to be able to go into a shop*, buy food, eat it without throwing up, getting the runs, or dying of eating it, then get on with the rest of my life.

I really don't want to analyse, research, think...........about food.......I have other things to do.

I say scrap the Planet and start again with some intelligent design.

*ok, assumptions, I live in shop-land etc

[Aggie]

This may sound incredibly simplistic, but I just want to be able to go into a shop*, buy food, eat it without throwing up, getting the runs, or dying of eating it, then get on with the rest of my life.

It's not simplistic.  That's the point*....  and unfortunately why it seems one must analyze, research, think about food these days.

Then again, food IS our central interest at our place (Korean wife, eh?  You DON'T mess with the sanctity of a Korean person's food.... Lee Myung-bak is being reminded of that fact at the moment).


*I would be quite happy to substitute 'garden' and 'forest' for 'shop' and 'pick' / 'kill' for 'buy'.  Really, it's coming down to that.

[beagle]

From what I've read, the latest tomato-related Salmonella Saintpaul outbreak might actually be inside the tomatoes.

Someone genetically engineered samonella to acquire skin piercing functionality?

Generally insects can be relied on to do that bit if not controlled.

Haven't really been following this one.  Is it a new thing for Salmonella to be able to thrive at pH 4?

It's not simplistic.  That's the point*....  and unfortunately why it seems one must analyze, research, think about food these days.

Or just live off tea, coffee and Mars bars.  I like to think of those bright colours fruit and vegetables have as one of nature's warning signs. 

[Alpaca]

Something's up (I can't swear by the assertion that it's inside...  it was a side mention in one article).  Possibility of incorporation during pollination....?*  Contamination of the wax/coatings used before shipping....?**  Spinach seemed like less of a mystery given the surface area of the leaves and the heavy pre-washing it gets prior to sale (for bagged product) - lots of chances to pick something up.

Heard about it on NPR this morning, and they mentioned that it's inside, too.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

I heard that NPR "news" bit.

The "scientist" they were interviewing was NOT a real scientist-- she was an actual idiot, though....

There "evidence" was hearsay only.  They basically interviewed the person(s) who got sick, and attempted from that (colloquial "evidence") to determine commonality.

As if.

It was complete bullsh!t.

It's akin to putting someone to death, based on a random-sampling of people's opinions that were in town during the actual "crime".

*bleah*

Here commentary about how the bacteria got on/into the tomatoes was basically pure speculation-- Wiley E. Coyote would've loved her statements, as a complete fabrication at best.

Sure--- some people got really, really sick.

Cause?   Complete Unknown.....