Is civility always appropriate?

[Swatopluk]

One can be very civil and still be a lying though the teeth, good behaviour, after all, guarantees nothing.

Yes, I hate people who are for example, seething with anger, and say nasty things with great civility. But..... I am unsure whether that then renders them uncivil?

That's my way. The more angry I am at somebody the more 'polite' my choice of words is*. Don't let me refer to you as 'honorable', especially not when the word is slightly (but not too strongly) emphasized (or with the definite article in front).

*until the moment of explosion

[Darlica]

I know what you are talking about Swato.
As I interact with strangers every day in my work and in a situation where I don't just represent my self but also the company I'm working for I have to be polite, hence I'm all; excuse me would you please... or excuse me would you be so kind to... 

It's easy to be polite, it's usually not an effort, it comes naturally and it makes things go much smother. Sometimes the politeness is really heartfelt and sometimes I have to fight a little with myself to keep the cool but usually it is just a phrase. I can not say that I am really sorry to interrupt someone who is holding the doors of a train ready to departure because the want to finish their conversation with a pal but doesn't want to get on the train for example.

I get a lot of shit (I can't really find a better word) thrown at me if not every day so at least every day, people with bad morning temper who just missed the train tend to take it out on the nearest uniform and that's me. I do wish they could be a bit more civil and first and foremost think first shout later.
Civility or even over-politeness is a tool for me when I have to handle these people, I might behave very respectfully but that has very little to do with what might go on in my head at the moment.
I do respect all people, all living things at a basic level but to be fair, if someone gives me a bucket full when I don't deserve it, when I had nothing to do at all with whatever caused their eruption I feel more respect for a pill-bug than for them. 


Zono, the most dangerous people are usually not only polite, they can be quite charming too. Manipulative.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

I know what you are talking about Swato.
As I interact with strangers every day in my work and in a situation where I don't just represent my self but also the company I'm working for I have to be polite, hence I'm all; excuse me would you please... or excuse me would you be so kind to... 

It's easy to be polite, it's usually not an effort, it comes naturally and it makes things go much smother. Sometimes the politeness is really heartfelt and sometimes I have to fight a little with myself to keep the cool but usually it is just a phrase. I can not say that I am really sorry to interrupt someone who is holding the doors of a train ready to departure because the want to finish their conversation with a pal but doesn't want to get on the train for example.

I get a lot of shit (I can't really find a better word) thrown at me if not every day so at least every day, people with bad morning temper who just missed the train tend to take it out on the nearest uniform and that's me. I do wish they could be a bit more civil and first and foremost think first shout later.
Civility or even over-politeness is a tool for me when I have to handle these people, I might behave very respectfully but that has very little to do with what might go on in my head at the moment.
I do respect all people, all living things at a basic level but to be fair, if someone gives me a bucket full when I don't deserve it, when I had nothing to do at all with whatever caused their eruption I feel more respect for a pill-bug than for them. 


Zono, the most dangerous people are usually not only polite, they can be quite charming too. Manipulative.

Reading your post, nodding to myself:  'yes, yes-- I have often to do that myself-- unctuously polite in the face of great stupidity'.

And I was struck with two thoughts:

Returning angry words with very polite demeanor can be most satisfying in a way; you may indeed be seething beneath the surface, but remaining cool and polite in the face of red-faced, spittle-flying actions can be worse than yelling in return--- and by worse, I mean the same as "heaping hot coals on their heads".  (to use a biblical snippet). 

Which made me flash onto a statement traditionally attributed to Jesus, regarding turn the other cheek.   I suddenly re-thought that, and now wonder if it has not been miss-translated all this time.

Looking at it from a different perspective, returning cool politeness in the face of red-faced screaming is far more effective, than responding scream-for-scream.  It's not about being meek and sheep-like.  It's more about being a [metaphorically speaking] really, really big dog, who never really has to bark loudly, or even growl much.  A look, a slight 'grr', an almost bored 'I'm watching you-- be careful' look.   This can be far more effective, and yes-- 'hurtful' to the person yelling than yelling-back could ever be.   

Perhaps, *that* is what was meant by 'turn the other cheek'?  Not a meek, sheep-like cowering, but a strong, 'I'm-so-above-this-I-refuse-to-stoop-to-your-level' attitude.   The big-dog, 'I can take your petty rantings all day long-- they are beneath me barely noticing' attitude.

Hmmm.

A sort of cold-revenge, if you will.

Just some idle musings...

[Pachyderm]

I try to be polite. After all, it costs nothing.

But my patience does have limits. Then I'm usually sarcastic.


Used to work as a bouncer. Politeness, politeness, politeness, violence.

[Scriblerus the Philosophe]

One can be very civil and still be a lying though the teeth, good behaviour, after all, guarantees nothing.

Yes, I hate people who are for example, seething with anger, and say nasty things with great civility. But..... I am unsure whether that then renders them uncivil?

That's my way. The more angry I am at somebody the more 'polite' my choice of words is*. Don't let me refer to you as 'honorable', especially not when the word is slightly (but not too strongly) emphasized (or with the definite article in front).

*until the moment of explosion

Ditto. Though I tend say something (or many things) scathingly after I've lost it.

I try to be polite. After all, it costs nothing.

But my patience does have limits. Then I'm usually sarcastic.


Used to work as a bouncer. Politeness, politeness, politeness, violence.

[Aggie]

I think, in the context of the Civility Project, the idea is not to stop intolerance and other examples of vile speech completely, but to just tone down the level of ass-hattery, which at least promotes the calm exchange of ideas (even if they are vile). It won't solve the issues, generally, but it's a good first step.


I wonder, when faced with rampant, ranting, red-faced ass-hattery, what the results of simply saying "Please be civil if you wish to continue this discussion" to the ass-hat in question would be?

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

I think, in the context of the Civility Project, the idea is not to stop intolerance and other examples of vile speech completely, but to just tone down the level of ass-hattery, which at least promotes the calm exchange of ideas (even if they are vile). It won't solve the issues, generally, but it's a good first step.


I wonder, when faced with rampant, ranting, red-faced ass-hattery, what the results of simply saying "Please be civil if you wish to continue this discussion" to the ass-hat in question would be?

In an actual face-to-face?  I've no idea.  In on-line forums?  They usually step up the uncivil ranting and ravings...

Of course, one always has to remember the most powerful tool of all:  total ignore-ment.