The doghouse (This is a crak up!)

[stellinacadente]

Now this is too funny... but it's sooo true some man just haven't a clue

http://bewareofthedoghouse.com/video.aspx

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Now this is too funny... but it's sooo true some man just haven't a clue

http://bewareofthedoghouse.com/video.aspx

All I can say is: What an ungrateful b!tch!

I hope I never meet such a gold digger as that poor man was chained to.... I didn't even finish the idiotic video after she acted like such an ingrate.

*bleah*

And no, I'm not laughing, either....

[anthrobabe]

It's an advertisement for a the JC Penny jewelry store--

[Darlica]

It would be funny if there wasn't so many women willing to forgive a man if he just opened his wallet and bought her some jewellery or so many men that think a diamond or two would be good way to solve a problem.
I can say a lot about what I think of men and women cementing the "diamonds are a girls best friend" cliché but I won't because it wouldn't be neither humble or unprejudiced...   

[stellinacadente]

well the world is a wonderful place because different people have different tastes and opinions and can be still civilized about it...

ain't it Bob? 

I do not share the diamond thing... but I do not share the vacuum cleaner or any other object for the care of the home either as a gift for a special occasion...

I'd rather have a book...

but that is _my_ personal preference...

I thought the video was funny per se...

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

well the world is a wonderful place because different people have different tastes and opinions and can be still civilized about it...

ain't it Bob? 

Oh, sure--- difference makes the world go 'round. 

But I was just struck in a bad way...why does a "anniversary" gift need to be both expensive and useless?  (aka. glitter/jewels/etc)  The vac he purchased for her was probabily worth $500.  Sure, a diamond ring costs 4 times that, but what good is it?  Okay, aside from cutting glass..... it's a worthless statement of "look how much money *I* have to throw away".  A very expensive vac is a tool, and can make housecleaning easier to do (as opposed to a cheap one).   

Had that been *my* wife/girlfriend?  I'd'a divorced/dumped her ungrateful butt post-haste.  And, I'd have demanded any jewelry I'd given her back, too....

Any woman who is swayed by that? [expensive baubles] I've no interest in knowing.   Yeah, I know it's rooted in an instinctive behavior (provider/protector/etc) but I expect women to rise above such base instincts.  If *I* can rise above my basic instincts, I expect at least the same in a partner.   

And, to me, the ad just perpetrates the stereotype that women are easily satisfied by spending a boatload of cash on useless glitter.... that's no better than saying all men are only swayed by a set of hooters.... neither is true, and neither is funny.  To me.

I suppose, after battling fundies over on Topix, I was not in the mood for yet another stereotype...

[Swatopluk]

Why not some new valves for the HPLC pump? There are rubies in them.

[Opsa]

Big hugs to youse guys for working it out.

Cheers to a new year of seeing eyepatch-to-eyepatch!
 

[Darlica]

Stelli and Bob  to both of you!

I love baubles! And my SO are very welcome to buy some for me if and when he wishes to...
_{(I tend to buy most of my glitter my self)}
Gifts are lovely and I think they are quite important in a relationship, it's one way to show that you care... What I react against it the idea that they have to be expensive and that jewellery are considered the perfect gift and of cause that it's always the man who should buy the gifts. Personally I take (or give) a cheap but well considered gift over an expensive but ill-considered gift any day! 

(What use do you have for a couple of diamond earrings when the thing you want most at the moment is a pocket book or a USB memory stick? _{a long time ago I was admitted to hospital, the woman in the bed across the room got earrings from her husband L gave me a pocket book, she was jealous -and bored.} 


That said, if a man  gave me a vacuum cleaner I would be out of the house the very same day! A vac is for the household  which we share, giving it to me  as a gift implies that I  should use it, and in my world household chores are something you share.
I once got a vac as a birthday present... but that was when I had moved to my first own flat and it was my mom who gave it to me and that's a whole other ballgame.

However no one can or should demand a gift, because then it's not a gift, it's a payment...

[anthrobabe]

Ya know i see both points on this.

As a woman who has no interest in diamonds I think the idea is disgusting that we women are only happy with expensive gifts with no thought behind them-- I do like jewelry but not for everything and no diamonds at all.
I also do not like the idea that is pounded into a man's head (hopefully by the pounder anyway) that all we want is jewelry or other shallow gifts  vs something he comes up with himself on his own by knowing us and our tastes. February and it's trapping make me ill- and I consider myself pretty romantic at heart- but this idea of buy her a rock and some candy and all will be well is lunacy-buy me something you know I will like (like a membership to the zoo or something or concert tickets) and that shows thought and it will be great. Kind of what Darlica is saying- for a real woman vs a _______ it is the thoughts and ideas of her SO that are important and the showing of love and affection. I also do not like the idea that all men are so stupid asnd clueless about the women they are in a relationship with.

However-- do not give me an appliance traditionally used by the female in her correct role of housewife as a big anniversary gift- no matter it's cost- it brings to mind the ideal (false) of June wearing her pearls and heels waiting for Ward to come home from the real world/job/work/important business-- however discussing the matter with me is perfectly acceptable. Asking me -- ummmm, i'm not sure, I think I know and this is what I am thinking about a gift might not be knight on a white horse (yet another  ideal) thing but it is an honest thing between two mature people who give a damn about the other and can communicate.

I also agree
a gift is a gift or otherwise it is something else entirely.

So on one hand the video is funny- it is so completely stereotypical as to be ludacris in the least. That is served to begin a dialog makes it valuable in my book.
On the other- completely not funny
Unfortunately we are a minority in the world and many won't take it any further than simply a commercial. 

(Bob- I had to stop visiting topix they make my head hurt-keep up the good fight- I do visit from time to time and read what you've had to say)

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

(Bob- I had to stop visiting topix they make my head hurt-keep up the good fight- I do visit from time to time and read what you've had to say)

*blush*

I suppose my attitude was formed by reading too much Robert Heinlein.

I remember one passage, where a naive [with regards to historical cultural norms] woman was told about some (to her ancient) cultures where sex was bartered for and sold (the late 20th and early 21st in RAH's "future history").  Her response?  Something like, "money?  Those women only wanted money?  Me? I'd insist on rare rubies or diamonds at the least...something that would literally cost the man all he had.  On the other hand, if I liked him, and he asked nicely?  I'd be happy to give it away for free...sex should be happy-making for both parties.  Or healing.  Or both."

What really set me off was the ungrateful attitude of the woman. 

I was raised, that a gift was a gift regardless of whatever it was.  You said "thank you".  You at the minimum, pretended to appreciate the hard work that it represented (if it did--anything expensive represents that, unless one is filthy rich, in which case the only gifts with meaning involve copious amounts of personal time to create...).   You never, ever complained, or said it wasn't any good.  You certainly didn't punish the giver for giving it to you.

That is what set me off, I suppose.   It was apparent that the clueless man actually tried to get something [to him] "frilly".  That it was a tool, and a useful one at that, only shows that it would've been what he would've wanted, had the roles been reversed.   Guys like things that are useful [tools] and the best you can get/afford.

His attitude beats the woman's all to heck and gone, even if his gift could be seen as stereotype--I didn't see it as stereotype, but I did recognize it was a tool, and that men think tools are cool. 

Be that as it may, the utter cluelessness of both parties involved left me with a bad taste.  That the guy was so clueless to recognize he was married to a literal gold-digger?  Clueless.  That the woman was so clueless that she was married to a man who did not realize just how much of a gold digger she was?  Clueless.   She should have married a rich, uncaring ~sshole.   To match her rich, uncaring tastes...  Then he could have had "people" to get her exactly what she deserved:  a cold, meaningless piece of mineral.  And nothing at all that represented the man she'd married, except perhaps his net worth...

[Darlica]

Tools are cool.

Heck, my SO can give me a power drill or a fine hammer any day if he wishes to and I'd be very happy and grateful...

The difference lies in the fact that I'd enjoy using those tools, however I don't particularly enjoy housecleaning especially not vacuum cleaning.

Now, if you have a good relationship your spouse (because this goes for both men and women) knows what you enjoy in life and what you don't enjoy as much and adjust eventual gifts to that.

Because IMHO gifts are a way to show that you care, how expensive or cheap it is has no real bearing, it should show that you have taken the time and the effort to think about what the other person would like and then find or make it for him or her, showing that you can go that extra mile, if needed.

[The Meromorph]

I've always been in favor of what I believe is the Chinese or Japanese approach to gift giving.

A gift must be attractively wrapped.
(because)
A gift must be explicitly praised, and the wrapping is at that point the only basis on which that praise may be based.
(because)
A gift must never be opened in the presence of the gift giver.
(because)
Personal reaction to the actual gift must be absolutely private. A appropriate response to the actual gift should be indirectly made at an appropriate opportunity.


However, I've never found any of my own associates in favor of this approach, so I follow local custom. 

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Tools are cool.

Heck, my SO can give me a power drill or a fine hammer any day if he wishes to and I'd be very happy and grateful...

The difference lies in the fact that I'd enjoy using those tools, however I don't particularly enjoy housecleaning especially not vacuum cleaning.

Now, if you have a good relationship your spouse (because this goes for both men and women) knows what you enjoy in life and what you don't enjoy as much and adjust eventual gifts to that.

Because IMHO gifts are a way to show that you care, how expensive or cheap it is has no real bearing, it should show that you have taken the time and the effort to think about what the other person would like and then find or make it for him or her, showing that you can go that extra mile, if needed.

And *I* think tool-using women are hot!   

We *are* a tool using species, after all.....!    

[Griffin NoName]

Hang on here - interesting discussion and all that, but did no one else see the women were ALSO sending up THEMSELVES ?


?

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

sending? 
---
On the subject of the vacuum cleaner and jewelry I must convey an argument my mom told me long ago in favor of (expensive) jewelry: it should be seen as savings. Thinking further it makes perfect sense, in older times women were completely dependent on their husbands/lovers for survival with little or no possibility of getting a job (respectable or otherwise) to get by if they found themselves widows or abandoned, more so, even if the husband was available, in hard times said jewelry could be traded for food or used to keep the house etc, etc, etc.

OTOH I agree wholeheartedly with Darlica about the gift of houseware, if a woman lives alone and she has no vacuum cleaner/microwave oven/cooking pots/etc it may be a thoughtful gift, but giving it to someone you live with implies that she is the one making use of said 'tools' exclusively with all the chauvinist connotations you can imagine.

In fact, until said connotation vanishes from our collective psyche, I would avoid making that kind of gift to any woman you care about. 

[pieces o nine]

Bob, I understand  (I think!)   and agree with everything you said about the importance of being gracious in the acceptance of any gift and the ugliness of gold-diggers  (which can be either gender, IME).

Maybe this analogy would help you to get past what seems to be sticking in your craw and obscuring the real point behind the premise that a special-occasion gift for a loved woman should be something that conveys a clear message that she *is* loved and valued for something *beyond* a live-in maid, laundress, and cook...

Let's say that a guy named, oh, say, "DualBags" gets a long-awaited promotion. Upon arriving home that night, he finds that his wife (whom we'll call, mmm,  "Goldie") has prepared supper for him. It is not steak and potatoes (his favorite), or roast beef (his second favorite), or even hamburger. Instead, she heated up a can of pork-n-beans and thawed out some hotdogs because they had a kosher-quality beef content -- plus she didn't waste money by running out to a store when there was perfectly good food at hand. And she bitched to all her friends the next day that he didn't seem to appreciate her thoughtfulness in providing him *any* dinner after working all day herself, let alone something sensible and economical on their budget. He can cook his own frank-n-beans next time, the whining bastard!


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
I'll be the very first to admit that analogies, by definition, compare apples to oranges (if not vacuum cleaners to hotdogs!) but can you soften just a little for sensitive women who deeply crave  signs of affection and recognition that they are not housekeeping robots?  (Or sensitive men who crave  signs of affection that they are not live-in auto mechanics and lawn-boys!)

I'll also disclose here that I've turned down actual marriage proposals from three different men who had some quite admirable and practical qualities, but abso-frickly-zero  clues about *small* and *appropriate* romantic thoughts, words and/or actions when dealing with someone skipping about with two X chromosomes, and abso-frickly-zero  desire to develop those skills. 
[NB: expensive jewelry does *not* equal tenderness, thoughtfulness or romance.] [However, it *would* be quite appropriate from a man who regularly spends very large amounts of money on boy-toys for himself.] 

I'll add further that I have no regret about those refusals, and do not consider myself to be either heartless or greedy for expecting that any man who expects his partner to always look and act her best to make him happy, might break the factory seal on his brain and think about ways to make her happy once in awhile as well. And my very dear sibling Bob, that ferdamsure ain't a vacuum cleaner for an anniversary -- unless, perhaps, he makes it extremely clear that he will be the one wielding it! 


   Finally, here's a warm hug for every time you've bought a non-romantic gift with the very best of intentions and had someone lift a disapproving eyebrow.

[Sibling Chatty]

Hmmm, so I suppose I was being a golddigger when I was...less than thrilled to get a coffeemaker for my birthday from my new husband. Whom I had been married to for 6 months, but had known for 10 years...and he'd NEVER seen me drink coffee because I DON'T DRINK COFFEE?? Yeah, a kitchen appliance for HIM for my birthday.

No, a 'gift' of a household appliance, unless the person has indicated that they specifically want that gift, is NOT a gift, it's a needed item for the house. Yeah, an $800 Dyson dual-canister 'fancy' vac is expensive. And SOOOO romantic, soooo personal...you walk into the store and buy an appliance. BFD. Might be a washing machine next time!!

Conversely, I had wanted a Kitchenaid mixer for...ever. REALLY wanted, looked at in catalogs, looked on line, wanting the cobalt blue Kitchenaid, specifically. They didn't make the blue anymore. Dan tracked it down for me, had to order it from the factory...the only ones available were factory rebuilts. But it was blue, and something I had wanted. And I was thrilled. (Who sit with their mixer next to them and pats it all evening?? Me, that Christmas Eve. The next morning, I used it for EVERYTHING for breakfast, and we're not breakfast eaters. I even used the juicer attachment and made fresh orange juice...)

It's NOT the cost of the gift with most women, it's the mindset. I am the first to say (in low money situations) that gift exchanges be practical items (or suspended/cancelled, like we've done for the last 3 Christmases) or small things. But I don't think calling a woman a gold digger over a gift of a household tool is a good thing. A couple in the socioeconomic situation the ad portrayed would HAVE some sort of vacuum cleaner. The choice of a new one as a gift for a 'romantic' occasion like an anniversary? Poor thinking, or NOT thinking, just spending money. Better a $5 bottle of bubble bath than an object that says "work in the house is what you mean to me".

Or "making MY coffee is YOUR job"... (I didn't have to say a word. His father, his secretary and the head of his department ALL straightened him out quickly when he told them that I had just looked at him and taken the box to the kitchen.)

[Griffin NoName]

My new and increasingly wonderful and lovely D-i-L desperately wanted a VERY expensive vaccum cleaner as a wedding gift. I am the person who bought it for her - no one else was going to !!! Curiously, since cleaning is not my galliwick* I too wanted a similarly very expensive vaccuum cleaner as a wedding gift.

* have always wanted to use that word

[Bruder Cuzzen]

*sigh* I'd love a vacuum cleaner right now , as well as  a washing machine , 30 lin. ft. of maple counter tops , 350 sq ft of oak flooring , 3 doz spruce 2"x4"x7'  , 3 oak 2"x10"x8' , 600sq ft. of insulation , an exhaust vent , etc. etc. etc..

I really don't care much for personal material items , be it a book ( I have a library card) or watch ( I'd be late regardless ) or tickets for some venue ( mobs of people make me more nutso than normal ) and yadda yadda yadda .
I would certainly appreciate anything given to me but I'd probably just give it away to someone who actually desires  stuff or truly needs whatever item .

I am perfectly content just to have a job go to and the company of family and friends .
I find all this junk about me quite a burden since I loathe to toss out anything useful , even if I have no use for it .

But of course that's just me (although my pal Fritz shares my sentiments    ).

PS. Tis good to see you back Griff !

[Griffin NoName]

TY kindly. It is good for me to see me back too !