The Most Astounding Fact (Neil DeGrasse Tyson)

[Bluenose]

I define atheism as simple not believing in any supernatural being until and unless there is some actual evidence for he/she/it.

The moment you bring evidence it stops being supernatural and becomes natural, the same way dark matter and dark energy are not considered supernatural, as although we don't know what they are we can infer their existence from consistent observations.

I quite agree.  That is one of the most powerful arguments against the very idea of the supernatural.  If something exists, it is by definition natural.

[Swatopluk]

Platon taught that ideas have an existence independent of the material world while he left the question open whether the same was true for gods. So if you had asked him 'human rights' would exist even without any humans being there to claim them.
Of course he was also a donkey cavity and would not have found it to be one of the better ideas. He was more fond of duties.
Later he would be named an idealist as opposed to the nominalist/realist Aristotle (marginally less of an ungulate's rear entry).

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

So true, Zono.  So true--

-- so does that make those of us who demand natural explanations, naturalists then?



I kinda like that myself: 

Stranger: "Are you an atheist or a believer?"

Me:  "Neither.  I'm a naturalist."

[pieces o nine]

As long as yah ain't one a them naturists, son...