BIOS Blues

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

A while back, I noticed my beloved mainbox PC was operating ... slowly.

I detected this initially during a demo of a game I was considering, and that started an odessy of digging under the hood.... something I would have relished in my younger days, but now in my 50+ experience, a tedium I had wished to avoid (which is why I bought this one "turn-key" instead of building from scratch..).

Of course, I'm long past the "free" techno-help from the vendor, that was only good for a year and I discovered I purchased this in 2010-- my how time flies!  It's coming up on 2 years old, this machine is (Dec of this year).

Anyway, it was acting slow-- but only for certain specific conditions.   Certain types of hard-disk access, for example.  Going back into the BOOT screen was painfully slow-- you could order pizza and have it delivered between each key-press within the BIOS menu (for example).

Scouring the webs yielded a plethora of possibilities-- none of which helped me with my symptoms.   

One computer builder suggested a latency issue(s) from some utility or other, and I downloaded the DPC Latency checker (google--it's free utility-- no install, you just run it, it's tiny-- a handy tool).    I had zero latency issues that it could detect.... WTF?   Still slow under certain conditions....  (specifically, certain sound-engines would stutter or play skip-wise as if jumping over rail-road tracks...some video was slow and laggy too)

Last night, I had Had It:  I opened the side of the case (now quite handy, thanks to my 3 Screens stand... Yaaay!) and just started unplugging everything:  all DVD drives, all hard disks, all USB stuff-- everything.  Then, only on the main USB bus, I re-plugged the main keyboard and nothing else-- well, apart from the 3 screens...

... and hit the power button:    *BAM*  it was lightning-fast, just like when I got it.  Okay, power off at the "ESC TO BOOT, 9sec countdown" message. 

Next:  Plug-in the DVD drive and only the Win7 Hard Drive:  *BAM* lightning-fast.  Power-off.   
Next:  Plug in the mouse, too:  *BAM* lightning-fast.... let it boot all the way... Windoze was fast-booting too... Yaaay!    Let Windoze come up all the way.   Joy!  Fast!

Alas, without the P: drive, most of my programs were missing... so... power off-- Joy!  That was fast, too.

Re-plug the next two drives:  P: (programs) and S: (storage)... still lightning-fast.  Happy-Happy-Joy-Joy!   Let Windoze, again, come up all the way... alas, it's Artificial Stupid (laughingly called a "wizard") wanted to re-detect all my hardware... okay, let it, but no, I do not need it to also check Windoze Update-and-Crash site...  a few seconds later, all was re-installed.

Happiness!  I don't need to replace any of the hard drives... (but I may anyway, as a preventative-- I have 2 years on my main Win7 drive, and even more on the others:  P: is a 320gig, about 3 or 4 years old, and S: is a 500gig slightly newer-- I probably ought to replace them all... with a couple of the newer fast ultra-large disks, and put these into an archival setting... something to ponder).

But I have solved the BIOS Molasses issues... it turns out, it was one of my USB devices (I have yet to determine which one).  It was either an CrApple iPod cable (which does have some electronics innit, even though it was not connected to the iPod) or one of several microUSB data cables or perhaps the old Zune dock (which I had forgotten all about).   Or it might even have been a little 4-port USB Hub, which is passive (not powered) that I had used to consolidate all my keyboard/mouse's inputs into one-- or even my old Z-board mini-gaming keyboard-- none of those are plugged in as I type this.

I'll have to re-plug them one at a time, and test-test-test. 

Later.  Maybe. 

Right now? 

I has Lightning-Fast once more...

[Griffin NoName]

I am also fed up with extended start up and shutdown. But nothing to unplug. I think I have many programs starting up which don't need to, but haven't identified which they are yet.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

I am also fed up with extended start up and shutdown. But nothing to unplug. I think I have many programs starting up which don't need to, but haven't identified which they are yet.

Get that latency program--it's free for non-business use.

Once it's running?  You can easily see if your machine has latency issues.

If yes?  Then go into the task manager:  (Control-Alt-Del: start task manager).   Once there, choose the processes tab.  Sort by CPU cycles.  And start shutting things off one at a time, and see if that fixes the latency thing.  Alas, you'll need to make a notation of which one before you shut it down-- in this case, I'd use paper, in case the one you shut down causes the 'chine to lockup and needs a reboot.

Once you identify which one is the culprit?  Use GOOGLE to figure out what it's doing, and if you can uninstall it or replace it with a better engine.

I've found old leftover "anti-virus" programs are all too frequently at fault for long boot-times.  As are old printer drivers from that printer you discarded a year ago-- if it's parts are still loading, but failing to "see" the printer?  That can lag things too.

If none of the processes you close has any effect?  Reboot, and start over, only use the SERVICES tab instead:  right-click to shut those off one at a time.   You can frequently spot things in here that are otherwise hidden (such as keyloggers, or ad-fetching zombie programs... or leftover anti-virus program crapware).

Again, use a pen and paper to make notes of what you're stopping.   If you "break" your computer?  A restart gets you back to square one.

If nothing in there helps? 

Use the command-line MSCONFIG utility:  RUN==>MSCONFIG which brings up a program that shows you the junk that auto-starts-- look at the STARTUP tab first.   Same regimen:  use a pen-and-paper to selectively disable startups-- unfortunately, you'll need to reboot to see if that fixes things or not.   

But you can sometimes spot keyloggers or ad-zombies or leftover anti-viral crapware in there.  Again, GOOGLE the thing in question often gives a clue as to what it is.

[Griffin NoName]

I've tried MSCONFIG - not shut everything off though. But thanks for the Latency prog. I'll download.

[Sibling DavidH]

Interesting - my Toshiba laptop takes ages to get on the net, after booting is otherwise finished.  I read that the Toshiba utilities 'config-free' and 'connectivity doctor' are to blame and that these could simply be uninstalled, leaving Windows to do the job.  After much Googling and setting a retore point, I did it!  Excellent result, saves at least a minute and does away with one tray icon.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Woot!

You have discovered something that many on the web have known for awhile:  writing bad code creates bad software.

The "utilities" that all too frequently come with computers?  Are poorly written at best--- and all to often create far more headache than they purport to address. 

True, Windoze can contain mediocre code most of the time-- but I'll take mediocre over bad (or worse) every time.

I typically do the same thing with drivers and/or engines to operate hardware add-ons, where possible.   That is, I let Windoze to the controlling.  Most of the time, it Just Works-- which is good enough for service.

Once in awhile, that bites me on the azz-- so in that case, I permit the manufacturer's engine to take over.

I'm gratified that you were able to fix an annoying issue with your hardware. 

My efforts were not all vainglory then....

[Griffin NoName]

Hi Bob

see attached DPC Latency

mostly yellow, some red, very little green

I've been through device manager disabling stuff but not found anything which makes much difference, which does not make sense, and presume I have not tried disabling the right thing (very wary of disabling anything not sure about). I don't really know what to try next???   nb. have tried rattv3 and kview unsuccessfully

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Okay, the analyzer has concluded that your latent devices are due to old or out-dated device drivers.

Here's how I would proceed:  you can successfully disable pretty much anything except the keyboard and mouse.  Believe it or not, you can even disable the video-- and Windoze will revert to a generic 640x480 video driver-- sure the desktop is mished up, but you can still see enough to work the device manager.

The nice thing about DM, is you can also re-enable a thing, if that didn't help the latency issue.

So.

How to proceed? 

Firstly, is it a laptop or desktop?  If the former, there's little need to test the keyboard, so I'd ignore it-- but fortunately, the KB and touchpad (even if you use a mouse here) is not a USB thing and you can probabily disable the USB devices without "painting yourself into a corner".

Also, if you do get stuck?  Reboot into safe mode-- during Windoze' startup screen, press F9 to enable the safe-boot choices.  In Safe Mode, all device drivers are generic-- and the kb/mouse/screen is using generic drivers, so you can get at Device Manager to re-enable a thing that seemed to be vital to the machine's operation.

Here's how I would proceed:

Start by disabling the USB stuff-- it's down at the bottom (typically).  Disable it, then do what the prompts say:  if you need to reboot, reboot (likely you won't). 

Then go back to the DPC engine and see if that helps-- if no change?  Re-enable USB and do what the prompts say (if reboot is needed, reboot).

Next, I'd disable the MODEM thing-- it's in the middle.  If you have more than one MODEM showing?  Disable them all.  Of course, if you use dial-up, you'll lose the Intertubes during the check-out-- no big deal, you can re-enable later.

Once again, check the latency. 

Note-- if you do >>not<< use dial-up?  I'd leave the MODEM disabled-- it's not doing anything for you, and it does take up some CPU cycles just sitting there (enabled).

If that's not it?  Disable the NETWORK card next-- and if you use high speed intertubes, you WILL lose the intertubes during the checkout-test.  Again, as usual, follow any prompts to reboot if suggested.

If it is the network card?  Obviously, you'll need to re-enable it right away-- do that, even if it's the problem.  Once re-enabled (and reboot) go into it to see if Windoze can update the driver-- in the DM, right-click on the device, click on PROPERTIES, then look at the DRIVER tab, and click on UPDATE DRIVER.  It may or may not work-- usually not, but it's worth a shot.

Okay-- that's the basic process you can do.

Here's some other hints:  if you see a Hard Drive that is using a non-Micro$oft driver?  Sometimes these can be poorly written, and sometimes you can force Windoze to use it's native driver instead of the manufacturer's-- the easiest way is to uninstall the driver, then reboot and let Windoze try to re-connect the device-- often it will revert to a Micro$oft native driver, if it can (but not always).

Another method to try, is try the "Rollback driver" button-- it's on the same page as "Update" above-- often, rolling back a driver reverts it to a native Windoze one-- which will get updated with windoze (unlike the manufacturer's one-- which often does not).

Finally?  You can try the website for your computer's maker, and see if they have any updated drivers available-- some are better than others at keeping things updated.   Obviously, you download and install these like any other program-- rebooting as needed.

But I would not, even though it's tempting, I would not disable more than one thing at a time, until you've tried all the individual things alone, first. (except for the MODEM-- you can probably leave that one disabled)

One more thing to check-- unless you have multiple-slaved hard disks?  (doubtful) un-install any RAID drivers-- they are just sitting there, taking up CPU time, doing nothing-- RAID drivers are for internet servers that have many disks acting as a single disk (both redundant and spanning).    I seriously doubt you have need of this, especially with a laptop.

But some idiot computer makers simply install everything the motherboard manufacturer included on the CD-- not a good idea, really.

[Griffin NoName]

Thanks!

I have tried all that. No success. Still don't know which it is. I disabled everything I could, also tried update driver - internet search- for everything. No dice.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Thanks!

I have tried all that. No success. Still don't know which it is. I disabled everything I could, also tried update driver - internet search- for everything. No dice.

Hunh.  You have exhausted my capabilities at this point.  Sorry about that.

Without seeing the actual machine (to trigger more ideas) I cannot think of anything else.

Perhaps some of the other computer gurus can help?

[Bluenose]

Hi Griff, have you checked what's being loaded in the registry?

Go to hkey_local_machine\software\microsoft\windows\currentversion\run  have a look at what's being loaded.  Back the key up and then delete anything that looks sus.  I usually do a Google on anything before I delete it first.  often there are little "utilities" loaded here that cause all manner of performane issues with your system.  Not to mention various malware things, but if you have a current reasonable good security software loaded there should not be too much of this. If you're not sure, you could post a screen shot of what you have in that location.

Of course, you may have already done this, if so I apologise for trying to teach you to suck eggs.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Download HijackThis (http://sourceforge.net/projects/hjt/) run and post the result of the scan. If there is any malware it should show up there.

[Griffin NoName]

Hi Griff, have you checked what's being loaded in the registry?

Haven't actually looked at the registry.

Have checked msconfig - startup, services - but can't see anything which I know I can dump.

Also nice utility called "autoruns" which shows all processes with distributers and explanations of what they do, and lots of options for what types of processes to list. You can untick ones you want to exclude from running. The trouble is, there's so much MSsh*t and unknown whether actually needed or not.  It is like looking at the registry, but nicely organised.

Download HijackThis (http://sourceforge.net/projects/hjt/) run and post the result of the scan. If there is any malware it should show up there.

mmmm good idea.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

One thing you can do, is google "What is" followed by the file/service/thingy that you don't know what it is.

Often you can learn it's something you not only don't need, you actually don't want, to auto-start.

[Bluenose]

Oh, and do you have iTunes installed?  That can be a killer of PC performance.

[Griffin NoName]

One thing you can do, is google "What is" followed by the file/service/thingy that you don't know what it is.

Yes, I know this trick - (but quite often they tell you stuff is malware, when it isn't.)

I dumped iTunes a while ago. When I installed Myst !! (incompatible versions of Quicktime).

Oh what fun this is.

[Griffin NoName]

Zono - ran HiJackThis. Attached.

Few things running that I don't need to be, but nothing leaps out at me as a problem. Although at present I feel like I wouldn't recognize a bad process if it came up and tapped me on the nose.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Just from reading various web blog stuff about slow-downs, and the solutions others have found?

Here's a couple of possibilities:

C:\Program Files\TuneUp Utilities 2010\TuneUpUtilitiesApp32.exe <<-- once you've run this, I'd un-install it, no need to keep it going, I would think

C:\Program Files\Intel\Intel Matrix Storage Manager\IAAnotif.exe <<-- you don't need this going unless you have a RAID (multiple hard disk) assembly-- which I doubt you do.  Let Windoze generic processes handle your disks-- a simple un-install, then reboot ought to do the trick (in getting Windoze to take over).

C:\Program Files\Google\Google Desktop Search\GoogleDesktop.exe  <<-- looks like you have 2 instances of this-- only need one.
C:\Program Files\Google\Google Desktop Search\GoogleDesktop.exe

C:\Program Files\Sony\VAIO Update 5\VAIOUpdt.exe <--- this ought to be run only once, then stop?  It would seem so to me.  I'd try disabling it-- you can always re-enable it again later.

C:\Program Files\Google\Google Toolbar\GoogleToolbarUser_32.exe <<-- toolbars-- ANY toolbars are notorious for hogging resources.    

Down lower, you have this hog (as are all Adobe products:  a hog)
O23 - Service: Adobe Flash Player Update Service (AdobeFlashPlayerUpdateSvc) - Adobe Systems Incorporated - C:\Windows\system32\Macromed\Flash\FlashPlayerUpdateService.exe
This should be changed to MANUAL, not automatic

And this is not needed-- again, you do not have a matrix-- you have ONE drive handling your Windoze tasks.  Adding a 2nd drive?  You still don't need it-- no RAID, remember?
O23 - Service: Intel(R) Matrix Storage Event Monitor (IAANTMON) - Intel Corporation - C:\Program Files\Intel\Intel Matrix Storage Manager\IAANTMon.exe
The easiest is to open SERVICES and make it stop, then set it to DISABLED.  How?  Open control panel, click HELP and search for SERVICES, and it'll have a link.  I don't remember exactly how under XP, sorry.

Edit by Bluenose
For XP, (this works on Vista and Windows 7 too) Right-click on My Computer (Computer on Vista/Win7) select Manage.  Expand Services and applications, then click on Services.

This one does not appear to be needed either, according to this link
O23 - Service: NSUService - Sony Corporation - C:\Program Files\Sony\Network Utility\NSUService.exe

Again, this ought to not be needed, once it's done it's work (that it has two entries is troublesome)
O23 - Service: @C:\Program Files\TuneUp Utilities 2010\TuneUpDefragService.exe,-1 (TuneUp.Defrag) - TuneUp Software - C:\Program Files\TuneUp Utilities 2010\TuneUpDefragService.exe
O23 - Service: TuneUp Utilities Service (TuneUp.UtilitiesSvc) - TuneUp Software - C:\Program Files\TuneUp Utilities 2010\TuneUpUtilitiesService32.exe

These are redundant, as there are perfectly good Windoze processes that do the same thing:
O23 - Service: VAIO Event Service - Sony Corporation - C:\Program Files\Sony\VAIO Event Service\VESMgr.exe
O23 - Service: VAIO Power Management - Sony Corporation - C:\Program Files\Sony\VAIO Power Management\SPMService.exe
O23 - Service: VUAgent - Sony Corporation - C:\Program Files\Sony\VAIO Update Common\VUAgent.exe
However, I would not disable all three at once-- disable one, reboot, let windoze trundle a bit, then see.  And so on.

----------------

Bottom line?  You can always go to SAFE MODE to fiddle with some of these things, or to re-enable something you've disabled (but want to put back).

How?  When Windoze is doing its startup?  (that black & white screen or nearly all black screen) press F8 for boot options-- one will be SAFE MODE.   In there you can also find a roll-back, which can undo certain of your changes too.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

I'll post this separate, for emphasis.

I have found this site useful, at figuring out what stuff is doing

http://www.file.net/process/index.html

[Bluenose]

Hi Bob, good advice.  I edited your post with the instructions for finding services in XP

[Griffin NoName]

Thanks Bob. I suspect some improvement by taking out most the ones noted.

TuneUp Utilities I only loaded yesterday to optimize and clean registry - was slightly effective. It has two instances as the second one is needed if you do a defrag (I'n not use TUP for that), though why it needs to load at startup and not just when user opts for it puzzles me, lazy coding. Anyway, I don't normally have Tune Up running at all.

I do know how to do system set ups, and safe mode, and everything like that my kids got cross as I put a password on booting tee hee. . I used to have to set up clients systems. I have some registry skills,

That site is ok, I've come across it before, don't find it very easy to see what I want, all too closee together and tiny, cramped. Typical of code writers ..... can't think how many times one has to impress your code can be brilliant but if the interface with what the client sees on the screen is not equally good, they won't buy the product. Am having one such row at present. I prefer typing process name and "what is" into google.

I sometimes use msconfig  as I can fiddle with Services and StartUp group.

Anyway, big big thank you. Will give feedback as and when.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Thanks blue.

And sorry to presume Griffin-- I'm so used to people saying "hunh?" when you even mention either registry or services.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

The first thing that jumped out of your log (which BTW looks quite decent all things considered) is Norton. I know some people will swear by it but I personally think it is one of the worse system hogs you can have.

[Griffin NoName]

S'ok Bob, IT was my career for near on 40 years. So it'd be odd if I hadn't picked up some PC stuff  (tho my real interest was systems - large ones - Oracle). And before that smaller ones. Databases. And before that machine code.

Yes, Norton is bloated. But it didn't slow the machine down much when first installed = that's only happened as more and more processes seem to get added into startup. I reckon "startup NO" should be the default for all programs, but they all seem to think the default is "Startup YES".

[Roland Deschain]

Good thread. Thanks for all the nice utilities and advice. I clean up my registry every so often (usually only after lots of files/programmes are added/removed), and scan regularly with AVG and Spybot (which also has a nice startup programme utility), so don't see as much slowdown as I did when new to the PC world.

Those start-up defaults...grrrrrrrrr. Luckily, I know how to stop them, and have a few options on that. PCs are such organic things, especially when using Windows, that you really do need to learn a thing or two once you take the plunge. Only once have I ever taken a PC to a repair shop, and that was over a sound driver not installing properly, but since then I learned what to do (it was years ago, now).