Adobe Photoshop

[Griffin NoName]

I have just got Adobe Photoshop and it is driving me nuts.

All the things I could do easily in other packages seem extremely difficult  and I have no idea why it has such a good reputation (which is why I got it).

HELP !!!


1. I want to draw a straight line. "Help" says click, hold shift, click and a straight line will appear. But the line that appears is always a bit wiggly. Why?? How do I straighten it?

2. I can't work out how to move (or turn/rotate) a straight (wiggly) line once I have drawn it. How?

3. I can't find out how to change the colour of the straight (wiggly) line. "Help" is no help. How?

4. I can't work out how to draw an arrow."Help" doesn't help. How?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Darlica]

Ok.
First, my version of PS is old so things can have changed...

Photoshop is really hard to work with a mouse and near impossible with a touch pad unless you only fiddle with correction of photos using different parameters.

It's also pretty pissy to learn, I've been using it for 9 years and I still stumble on functions I had no idea existed.


To draw a straight line you use the brush/pen.

Note that when you click on the brush icon the activity bar will change, in the upper left corner you will now have another brush icon, clicking on that one will give you opportunity to choose between airbrush and regular brushes. To the right of the brush icon there's a Icon with a dot and a number under it that dot and number indicates what type of brush you are currently using and the size in pixels.

Chose a brush and a size you want and choose the colour.

If your swatches or colour pallet doesn't show you will find it under  "Windows"  "Swatches"


Press "shift" as well as the right mouse button (if right handed that is) and hold them both down while you draw the line.
Now if you just release the "shift" and mouse buttons move the mouse and then press them both down again and then continue to draw, the program will join the last point of the fist line to the first point of the second line only using straight angles. To avoid that click one time with the right mouse button while holding the mouse down then press both "shift" and the right mouse button.

To change colour on for example a line: Zoom in on the line use the "magic wand" to select the area choose your colour and fill the area using the paint bucket.

I hope this helps.



I would however do these kind of tasks, drawing arrows and such objects in Adobe Illustrator, it works with vectors, is easier to use with a mouse and lines are over all easier to manage.
In a way it's like the differences between Watercolours (PS) and a well behaved ink pen with a built in ruler (Illustr.) ...

[Griffin NoName]

To draw a straight line you use the brush/pen.

Note that when you click on the brush icon the activity bar will change, in the upper left corner you will now have another brush icon, clicking on that one will give you opportunity to choose between airbrush and regular brushes. To the right of the brush icon there's a Icon with a dot and a number under it that dot and number indicates what type of brush you are currently using and the size in pixels.

That bit is ok - I found it all and I like the pencil for drawing lines.

Chose a brush and a size you want and choose the colour.

If your swatches or colour pallet doesn't show you will find it under  "Windows"  "Swatches"

That was a huge problem - no colours visible - I will now go look under "Windows"   ~ what a silly place

Press "shift" as well as the right mouse button (if right handed that is) and hold them both down while you draw the line.
Now if you just release the "shift" and mouse buttons move the mouse and then press them both down again and then continue to draw, the program will join the last point of the fist line to the first point of the second line only using straight angles. To avoid that click one time with the right mouse button while holding the mouse down then press both "shift" and the right mouse button.

Hmmm. I was using the left mouse button as one does for all other software.

To change colour on for example a line: Zoom in on the line use the "magic wand" to select the area choose your colour and fill the area using the paint bucket.

Goodness. I was just trying mouse clicks - as one does with other packages - never even considered the magic wand.

I hope this helps.

I hope so, and many thanks.

I can see it is going to take an age to get up any speed using Photoshop. I am quite puzzled by why it is so different to operate than others.

Why does it have such a good reputation? It doesn't seem any better then a cheap package I had before and it is more difficult to operate. What is it better at than others?

I would however do these kind of tasks, drawing arrows and such objects in Adobe Illustrator, it works with vectors, is easier to use with a mouse and lines are over all easier to manage.
In a way it's like the differences between Watercolours (PS) and a well behaved ink pen with a built in ruler (Illustr.) ...

Is Illustrator yet another thing to have to buy ?? because I couldn't really afford Photoshop in the first place.......

[Darlica]

Press "shift" as well as the right mouse button (if right handed that is) and hold them both down while you draw the line.
Now if you just release the "shift" and mouse buttons move the mouse and then press them both down again and then continue to draw, the program will join the last point of the fist line to the first point of the second line only using straight angles. To avoid that click one time with the right mouse button while holding the mouse down then press both "shift" and the right mouse button.

Hmmm. I was using the left mouse button as one does for all other software.

Of cause it's the left mouse button I was tired and silly.

Why does it have such a good reputation? It doesn't seem any better then a cheap package I had before and it is more difficult to operate. What is it better at than others?

It all depends on what you use it for.

As the name says it's first and foremost a photo editing program and as such it is formidable one (once you've learned it, I haven't). Then someone realised that one could edit other pictures as well such as paintings and drawings and from that the step to create pictures in PS wasn't that big.

I don't know if your run of the mill drawing program uses layers, but PS was I think one of the first if not the first to use them. layers are very clever as they let you build a picture where the elements seems to be attached but you can work on even delete them independently without destroying details in other elements of the picture.
When you have learned to use the layers (remember to give them names that make sense etc) things becomes much easier.

PS file formats has also become a standard in the graphic industry so almost all print shops has the means to deal with PS pictures.

Corel Painter is actually a much better program for "Painting" in the computer but it's even bigger and wants an ungodly amount of RAM or your "brush" will stall and behave in ten odd ways at the same time .

Is Illustrator yet another thing to have to buy ?? because I couldn't really afford Photoshop in the first place.......

I don't know how advanced you are or what kind of pictures you want to create.
You tell me that and I'll can probably tell if you have any need for AI (adobe Illustrator).

[Griffin NoName]

Press "shift" as well as the right mouse button (if right handed that is) and hold them both down while you draw the line.
Now if you just release the "shift" and mouse buttons move the mouse and then press them both down again and then continue to draw, the program will join the last point of the fist line to the first point of the second line only using straight angles. To avoid that click one time with the right mouse button while holding the mouse down then press both "shift" and the right mouse button.

Hmmm. I was using the left mouse button as one does for all other software.

Of cause it's the left mouse button I was tired and silly.

In that case, then I have been doing exactly what you say, and I don't get proper straight lines. I get sort of very slightly jagged ones. 

I am completely stumped. 

Why does it have such a good reputation? It doesn't seem any better then a cheap package I had before and it is more difficult to operate. What is it better at than others?

It all depends on what you use it for.

As the name says it's first and foremost a photo editing program and as such it is formidable one (once you've learned it, I haven't). Then someone realised that one could edit other pictures as well such as paintings and drawings and from that the step to create pictures in PS wasn't that big.

Oh right - I didn't realised paintings/drawings was like an afterthought. All the people I know using it are artists of one sort of another. I assumed they'd want drawing straight lines and text etc et and stuff so never thought it was just really for photos. I think this may be Mac related..... they all seem to have Macs too.

I've used a whole variety of other painting/drawing packages so am quite flexible and pick up how to do stuff reasonably well in all of them..... but they all had downsides, odd things missing, etc.

I don't know if your run of the mill drawing program uses layers, but PS was I think one of the first if not the first to use them. layers are very clever as they let you build a picture where the elements seems to be attached but you can work on even delete them independently without destroying details in other elements of the picture.

I've used layers in other packages but not really got the hang of it properly; always feels a bit hit and miss, probably because I've never bothered to put more effort into learning/training.

PS file formats has also become a standard in the graphic industry so almost all print shops has the means to deal with PS pictures.

Yes, I thought that must be why it would be the best buy !!

Corel Painter is actually a much better program for "Painting" in the computer but it's even bigger and wants an ungodly amount of RAM or your "brush" will stall and behave in ten odd ways at the same time .

Corel packages are formidable. And excellent. And bloated because of it.

I've used various of the Corel stuff and watched people doing professional stuff with it... um supported them.... um without any training... um IT folk are forever having to support users when knowing less than they do..... it's lke the teacher reading Maths for Dummies the night before having to teach some mathmatical concept they've never come across before.....

Is Illustrator yet another thing to have to buy ?? because I couldn't really afford Photoshop in the first place.......

I don't know how advanced you are or what kind of pictures you want to create.
You tell me that and I'll can probably tell if you have any need for AI (adobe Illustrator).

I do like doing quite coomplicating drawings with lots of lines and shapes and objects and variety of text floating around. I love cloning too !!!   

I think I'd rather ditch Photoshop than have to add Illustrator and go back to using some other package. From my point of view, working with photos is just as easy and effective in other packages I've used, and which have the drawing/painting all incorporated properly. And printshops only need jpg/gif/ whatever type files - I mean it shouldn't really matter to them what software one has used to work on the photos as long as the files themselves are compatible....... hmmm I suppose that's not true of they want Photoshop type files with Photoshop layers to fiddle with...... except they must all be used to fiddling with other file types.....  hmm I am talking myself rounnd in circles here.

I think I am just outraged I cannot draw a proper straight line.

[Darlica]

OK so the line appears to be jagged...

That could depend on several things...

#1 how many dpi was the picture? I don't go below 300 dpi while draving, I reduce the size and "density" when I'm done, that gives a better quality of the picture.

#2 What brush did you use? Some are smoother than others.

#3 actually how big was your canavas and how much had you zoomed in on the lines you where drawing?

#4 all the above in lovely synergy!



Since you have bought PS I think you should give it a try, but I'm sorry to say that it probably isn't the program you wanted or needed,
On the plus side you can exchange uncompressed pictures with nut cases like me and discuss them layer by layer!

As you said there are other less expensive packages that would work as well for you, I'm sorry no one gave you a proper insight on PS before you bought it.

I use it because I learned the basics during my education and it's more or less a must in my line of work, I also use it together with a Wacom board (+ pen), a magnet and pressure sensitive digital drawing board which makes things much much easier. 

[Griffin NoName]

OK so the line appears to be jagged...

That could depend on several things...

#1 how many dpi was the picture? I don't go below 300 dpi while draving, I reduce the size and "density" when I'm done, that gives a better quality of the picture.

Not the faintest idea !

#2 What brush did you use? Some are smoother than others.

Used the "pencil." It is smoother than any of the "brushes".

#3 actually how big was your canavas and how much had you zoomed in on the lines you where drawing?

Not the faintest idea !

#4 all the above in lovely synergy!


The reason for "not the faintest idea" is quite simple.

The "Help" pages say click one end point, hold down shift, click other end point, and Photoshop itself will put a "straight" line between the click points.

The problem is that it doesn't. It puts a jagged one.

So... it wasn't me drawing a wonky line, it's Photoshop.

The "Help" pages imply this is the only way to draw straight lines.

I find it very hard to believe there is no straight line tool of any kind anywhere........... or a circle.... or anything else it is hard to draw absolutely accurately by hand.

[The Meromorph]

It may be your display that is inadequate. Try printing one of the 'jagged' lines and see if it comes out as straight. I have found on low grade monitors that they are sometimes incapable of displaying a slanting line as straight.

[Griffin NoName]

I don't have a very low grade screen..... and I can draw perfectly straight lines in other packages on the same screen.

But thanks for the  thought !

[Darlica]

All right, try this:

Open PS
Go to "File"
Chose "New" name the new document "test1"

Chose following parameters

Preset size: A4    (width and hight will follow, so no need touching them this time.)
Resolution: 300 pixels/inch
Mode: RGB Colour

Contents: white (here you chose the background no need to mess with that now it's easily done later)

Click "OK"

You will now have a document size A4 (standing usually) and with the resolution 300 pixels/inch (or 300 dpi) this is a reasonable high resolution that is god enough to print without getting pixly.

The pencil tool that you liked is a precition tool, it's only one pixel wide and hence barely visible in print, all other drawing tools are referred to and found under "brushes"

Under "Windows" there's an option named "tools"make sure that one is visible ie. ticked off. This is the Tool bar. Somewhere on it you will find your pencil or a little brush as they share icon space indicating which one of then that are the most recently used.

You change between them by grabbing the little black dot in the lower right corner of it icon and pull diagonally downwards, then chose the option you want.

Do you have the "Layers window" open? Otherwise it too can be found under "Windows" as "Layers".

Create a new layer. That saves you from creating new documents over and over again.

Test the pencil again:
Choose the pencil in the tool bar -under "File" and "Edit" there should be an little icon of a pencil and a box with a tiny dot and the text Brush: 1

Try drawing again.

Then go back to the tool bar and chose the little brush instead of the pencil.

Click the little black triangle on the right side of "Brush: (number)" now a wide array of brushes will show.

Start with choosing a dot with sharp edges the size of the brush can be regulated with the sliding control "Master Diameter" start with a diameter of 5 or 9 pixels (px) now draw some more.

Tell me how it goes.

[Griffin NoName]

Darlica that is a brilliant set of instructions!!  I will try......

I'll bookmark it for now as I won't have a chance possibly for a few days.............

Thanks so much. I will let you know how it goes.

[Opsa]

I should print those instructions, Darlica. I have never played enough with PS graphics and I ought to have by now.

Photoshop came with my eMac, so i think you're right about it being for Mac users. Macs and PS, as I understand it, were designed for artists and therefore have their own sort of logic.

I love, love, love Photoshop for how easily it manages photographic images. Having worked in a chemical photo darkroom for many years, it makes total sense to me. I think that's why people complement it so highly.

Adobe Illustrator however, I also have and do not understand at all, in spite of being a manual illustrator. So much for that theory!

[Darlica]

Thank you for the kind words!

I'm no expert in any way or form, but I know what's it's like to don't understand this program and still have to work in it. I spent most of my 3 years at university feeling like that.

I know enough to do what I need to do as an illustrator but not much more, perhaps we should exchange some tip-offs I know next to nothing about editing photos (beside the obvious tools I also use editing drawings).


I really like Illustrator (AI) but I'm not an overly advanced user of that one either... I use Illustrator for placing text in pictures (works much better than PS) drawing logotypes and other pictures that I want to be able to scale up or down a lot without having to draw them over and over again.
I have made a lot of pictures, mind map structures and such to be used either in Powerpoint or in OH presentations using AI.
I can't imagine having either PS or AI without the other as they complement each other very much, I would be stranded with only one of them now that I have gotten used to them. Still if there was a program that had the essence of both PS and AI and could export to their formats I would buy that instantly.

[Griffin NoName]

Still if there was a program that had the essence of both PS and AI and could export to their formats I would buy that instantly.

There was. It was Microsoft PhotoDraw (part of original Office suite). It won't run on Vista.

It did paint, draw, pretty much everything that Adobe makes such mountians of, very easily. I used it for totally everything...... I could chop photos up or do whatever I wanted with them as well. The only thing I couldn't do with it was animation although it had some minor stuff.

There are people all over the internet lamenting its demise.

PhotoDraw 2 - which added a lot of additional web functionality but which I never bought, is rumoured to work on Vista (even though it was pre-Vista) but there are none for sale and only one French one second hand. And no downloads from anywhere I can find. <SOB>

[Aggie]

There are people all over the internet lamenting its demise.

ZOMG, such a good program...  (version I remember was called Microsoft Photo Editor I think... probably same thing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Photo_Editor )

With that and MS Paint, one could do all sorts of things.  Not many bells and whistles, which really was the beauty. Someone needs to resurrect it somehow and reverse engineer a similar beast!

I'm convinced that the Picture Manager that MS put in as a replacement is deliberately useless to encourage aftermarket purchases of useful software.. 

[Griffin NoName]

Actually MS Photo Editor was a totally different program, not part of office, I think a freebeee,  which I never used...... didn't have as many functions as PhotoDraw, but may well have been as good as and easier than PhotoShop too ! 

MS seems determined to drop its best "features" (demise of Outlook Express) and keep its worst. <snarl>


Mero, FYI, I went into MS Word and used the draw-objects-arrow feature to draw two perfectly straight lines arrows - always works a treat. They are dead straight on screen and paper. Transfered the "picture" into Adobe Photoshop and the arrow's straight lines are jagged. On the screen. Haven't tried printing from Photoshop to see if they print straight. However, if they do print out straight from PhotoShop then I don't think that will make me any happier using PhotoShop......

[Aggie]

Actually MS Photo Editor was a totally different program, not part of office, I think a freebeee,  which I never used...... didn't have as many functions as PhotoDraw, but may well have been as good as and easier than PhotoShop too ! 

Yes, perhaps...  I can't recall if the computer I had it on actually had Office (think so, but I believe the program was more ubiquitous than that?), although it was also included in early Office versions:

Microsoft Photo Editor was an image-editing application found in Microsoft Office 97–XP versions for Windows, classified as one of Microsoft Office Tools. It has been replaced by Microsoft Office Picture Manager, although some Photo Editor features are not available in Picture Manager.[1]

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Actually MS Photo Editor was a totally different program, not part of office, I think a freebeee,  which I never used...... didn't have as many functions as PhotoDraw, but may well have been as good as and easier than PhotoShop too ! 

MS seems determined to drop its best "features" (demise of Outlook Express) and keep its worst. <snarl>


Mero, FYI, I went into MS Word and used the draw-objects-arrow feature to draw two perfectly straight lines arrows - always works a treat. They are dead straight on screen and paper. Transfered the "picture" into Adobe Photoshop and the arrow's straight lines are jagged. On the screen. Haven't tried printing from Photoshop to see if they print straight. However, if they do print out straight from PhotoShop then I don't think that will make me any happier using PhotoShop......

I'm not surprised.

Adobe products are deliberately obtuse, as far as I can tell.  That, and huge bloated require-more-PC-than-anyone-has sorts as well.

And demand that they be the ONLY program running, and REFUSE to quit running after you exit (they always leave bits if themselves running in the background, in case you want to run them again within 30 seconds?)

bleah

I refuse to have anything to do with Adobe-- I don't even use their bloat-ware PDF reader.

As for drawing programs.... I used Paint Shop Pro for years, until it went kaput.   Now, it's owned by Corel, and I've not used the Corel-owned version myself.  But they do have a free download/trial....

If it's not too late to return Adobe junkware?*  You could give Paint Shop a try...


____________

*In my opinion

[Griffin NoName]

Much too late to return...... even though I haven't opened it yet as I am still using the trial version, which I didn't try enough before buying.....................

I had PaintShop Pro too and didn't like that either, but I disliked it less than I dislike PhotoShop.

Bit stumped as to what to buy/install now. I use "drawing objects" etc a lot and at present I am doing that in MS Word which is ridiculous.

[Griffin NoName]

 

I think my life has been saved !!  I have discovered that one of my old MS Office discs has PhotoDraw version 2 which will apparenty install in Vista OK.

I am so happy.

[Darlica]

I'm not surprised.

Adobe products are deliberately obtuse, as far as I can tell.  That, and huge bloated require-more-PC-than-anyone-has sorts as well.

And demand that they be the ONLY program running, and REFUSE to quit running after you exit (they always leave bits if themselves running in the background, in case you want to run them again within 30 seconds?)

bleah

I refuse to have anything to do with Adobe-- I don't even use their bloat-ware PDF reader.

As for drawing programs.... I used Paint Shop Pro for years, until it went kaput.   Now, it's owned by Corel, and I've not used the Corel-owned version myself.  But they do have a free download/trial....

If it's not too late to return Adobe junkware?*  You could give Paint Shop a try...


____________

*In my opinion

For your information Bob, I'm at this very moment running my Adobe Photoshop, firefox, a web radio application, Mozilla Thunder bird, as well Nod 32 antivirus and Zon alarm firewall...
All this on a PC laptop from 2005 with a AMD 64 processor (1.76 GHz) and 512 MB RAM.
Hardly a super machine...

No problems what so ever.

The only programs to ever clash with PS has been 2 antivirus programs "Norton" and "Panda"

As I see it the problem with Adobe isn't their bloated programs... if you compare what you can do with with the size of it, it ain't too bad. The problem is that very few people can use the programs full potential, yours truly included.
However at the moment no other program cut it for a professional, Corel Paint might but that's a seriously demanding program and it doesn't handle photos so well. Still just because one doesn't need or know how to use all the bells and whistles of a program doesn't mean that they are useless to everybody else... 

Photoshop is first and foremost a program for professionals or people with needs reminding of those of a professional photo editor or illustrator, selling it to unsuspecting ordinary customers who just want to do lighter illustration work or doing some restoration and editing of old photos or newly taken ones, is beyond stupid, it's like selling a full restaurant kitchen to someone wanting to buy a tea kettle.   

There should be a Adobe creative suit light, I think, a program that combined the most usable functions from Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign. That should cover the in between gap Griffin has fallen into amongst other things.



Have you tried my tour yet Griffin?

[Darlica]

Much too late to return...... even though I haven't opened it yet as I am still using the trial version, which I didn't try enough before buying.....................

I had PaintShop Pro too and didn't like that either, but I disliked it less than I dislike PhotoShop.

Bit stumped as to what to buy/install now. I use "drawing objects" etc a lot and at present I am doing that in MS Word which is ridiculous.

If I had the money I would take that copy of PS of your hands...
Unfortunately my wallet is not that well at the moment.

[Griffin NoName]

Can't say I've had any problems running PhotoShop with a load of other stuff running too, either. But then I have a machine that ought to be able to cope anyway.

No, I haven't tried yet Darlica, but I did download the stuff you sent me today. I will try it, I just don't know when. There may be stuff I could do better in PhotoShop than PhotoDraw given there are things I can do better in PhotoDraw than PhotoShop it ought to work both ways

I've got PS 6 pre-installed, but I bought PS 7, which I think has something called a Line Tool....... also it came with the video editing suite..... I'm not going to unwrap it yet (it is still sealed in its selophane wrapper) until I feel up to making such a big decision about whether to keep it or try to sell it.