Amazon's Kindle

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

I'm planning on getting one of these

Below are the hard-selling points (direct from their site).  Anyone have any thoughts on these things?   I like being able to essentially carry my entire library around with me-- and I like not filling up my house with books I read once every few years (if that).

What'ya all think?

Product Overview

    * Revolutionary electronic-paper display provides a sharp, high-resolution screen that looks and reads like real paper.
    * Simple to use: no computer, no cables, no syncing.
    * Wireless connectivity enables you to shop the Kindle Store directly from your Kindle—whether you're in the back of a taxi, at the airport, or in bed.
    * Buy a book and it is auto-delivered wirelessly in less than one minute.
    * More than 160,000 books available, including more than 98 of 112 current New York Times® Best Sellers.
    * New York Times® Best Sellers and New Releases $9.99, unless marked otherwise.
    * Free book samples. Download and read first chapters for free before you decide to buy.
    * Top U.S. newspapers including The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and Washington Post; top magazines including TIME, Atlantic Monthly, and Forbes—all auto-delivered wirelessly.
    * Top international newspapers from France, Germany, and Ireland; Le Monde, Frankfurter Allgemeine, and The Irish Times—all auto-delivered wirelessly.
    * More than 350 top blogs from the worlds of business, technology, sports, entertainment, and politics, including BoingBoing, Slashdot, TechCrunch, ESPN's Bill Simmons, The Onion, Michelle Malkin, and The Huffington Post—all updated wirelessly throughout the day.
    * Lighter and thinner than a typical paperback; weighs only 10.3 ounces.
    * Holds over 200 titles.
    * Long battery life. Leave wireless on and recharge approximately every other day. Turn wireless off and read for a week or more before recharging. Fully recharges in 2 hours.
    * Unlike WiFi, Kindle utilizes the same high-speed data network (EVDO) as advanced cell phones—so you never have to locate a hotspot.
    * No monthly wireless bills, service plans, or commitments—we take care of the wireless delivery so you can simply click, buy, and read.
    * Includes free wireless access to the planet's most exhaustive and up-to-date encyclopedia—Wikipedia.org.
    * Email your Word documents and pictures (.JPG, .GIF, .BMP, .PNG) to Kindle for easy on-the-go viewing.
    * Included in the box: Kindle wireless reader, Book cover, Power adapter, USB 2.0 cable

[Griffin NoName]

    * Includes free wireless access to the planet's most exhaustive and up-to-date encyclopedia—Wikipedia.org.
 

Should that be exhausting and not necessarily accurate encyclopedia?

There was a major hype here in the weekend newspapers for some new electronic book or other. Can't remember if it was the one you are looking at.

Books, real books, as of old, are one of my greatest loves so not for me.

But, in themselves, electronic books may be useful.

I've spent most of my adult life staring at a computer screen all day long (or all night long) (or both) (well actually once for a solid three days and nights) and it never harmed me (as in the schoolteachers used to beat us and it never did us any harm)..... but there seem to be a considerable number of people I know who blame such activity for all sorts of things..... how about joining a trial for testing whether these products are safe?

Oh, by the way, you know the answer to this kind of question..... wait for the posts to roll in telling you to buy a different brand 

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Oh, by the way, you know the answer to this kind of question..... wait for the posts to roll in telling you to buy a different brand 

Speaking of... I have the Sony reader which doesn't have the wireless capabilities of the Kindle but then again downloading data on a cellular network is still slow and you will be paying for that content.

I regularly download books from the project Gutenberg and get some manga from different websites. 

For a geek its the perfect toy but more importantly it can be very useful if you need to pack lots of schematics on your daily job provided you can live with the size of the screen. I got it for our trip to Europe last year and having tens of books in your pocket while doing lines or riding in planes & trains is very cool. ^__^

[beagle]

I gather that in the UK Sony are charging the same price for downloaded books as for the hardback, which seems mad, but other than that both the Sony and Amazon devices look interesting.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Griff:  touche.   

Zono:  I've looked at the Sony, and it seems to be the nearest competitor.  The thing I like about the Kindle is that it's screen is NOT an LCD, nor a plasma, nor an OLED or anything that consumes power.  It's based on that "electronic paper" tech that I read about, oh, 10 years or so ago.

It works by encapsulating in a matrix particles that can be black or white, depending on which way they "face".  The matrix is passive, and the particles remain facing with no power applied.  Thus, the only use of power is to change the "face"/orientation of a particles as needed.

This means, if you turn off the cell-phone thingy*, this only needs charging once every two weeks or so.   It also means that you MUST have an external light source (unlike most electronic displays, which work well in the dark).  It also means that bright sunlight is just as good as common reading lamps to see the display.

I like this aspect of it's display:  it's "off" when displaying a page, and does not turn "on" until I click for the next page-- then it's only "on" briefly.

I also like that you can change the font/character size to suit your tastes and eyesight.

How does your Sony compare to the above? 

Free books can be easily downloaded into a Kindle.  If it's tethered to an internet-aware PC, the cost is free.    If you elect to e-mail it through the cell-thingy, it's $0.10/book.   There is a totally free e-mail address, if it's tethered to an internet-aware PC as well.

So, aside from the direct-from-Amazon method, there are three other methods to get content, two of which are completely free.

There is also software that converts most E-book formats into the Kindle format.


Some cons:  It does not do color graphics at all (It's black-and-white).

It apparently does not do B&W graphics very well, either.

It is heavy according to some (for what it is).

None of these bother me at all-- most of my reading is fiction, and does not come with pretty pictures anyway....! And it's not as heavy as a hard bound full-sized book, so that's not an issue, either.




_________

* the cell-phone is not really a cell-- you cannot make calls, not even 911.  It's based on Sprint.  You don't need a contract or any subscription-- the cost of sending you the book/magazine/newspaper is inherent in the cost of the subject matter sent.   Delivery is within minutes (assuming you're within the Sprint's data network-- overseas, it does not work well or at all, I'm told.  That's okay-- you can still read the books you already have inside it).   With the "cell phone" turned to on, battery life is similar to a premium cell-- 2 to 5 days according to reviews. 

Obviously, if one elects to subscribe to a daily newspaper, the cell thingy must be left on, to get the daily paper.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Zono:  I've looked at the Sony, and it seems to be the nearest competitor.  The thing I like about the Kindle is that it's screen is NOT an LCD, nor a plasma, nor an OLED or anything that consumes power.  It's based on that "electronic paper" tech that I read about, oh, 10 years or so ago.
[snip]
How does your Sony compare to the above? 

It's exactly the same epaper, in fact it is exactly the same screen.

It apparently does not do B&W graphics very well, either.

It is heavy according to some (for what it is).

I read manga on it  (which comes in B&W) and it works perfectly, mind you, 'white' is really a kind of gray so photographs will never look as good as a print but for what you need it is quite good. Re: weight, I don't know how heavier the kindle is compared to the sony but I can tell you than mine is slightly lighter than the book I'm reading right now (which is about an inch longer than the reader).

[Aggie]

The thing I like about the Kindle is that it's screen is NOT an LCD, nor a plasma, nor an OLED or anything that consumes power.  It's based on that "electronic paper" tech that I read about, oh, 10 years or so ago.

It works by encapsulating in a matrix particles that can be black or white, depending on which way they "face".  The matrix is passive, and the particles remain facing with no power applied.  Thus, the only use of power is to change the "face"/orientation of a particles as needed.

This would be a major selling feature to me - I get tired of looking at backlit screens all the time.

[Griffin NoName]

It works by encapsulating in a matrix particles that can be black or white, depending on which way they "face".  The matrix is passive, and the particles remain facing with no power applied.  Thus, the only use of power is to change the "face"/orientation of a particles as needed.

Sense a spin off oportunity here where no power requirements to turn a page etc; iron filings with letters on either end and a magnet. Would work for short two page books.

None of these bother me at all-- most of my reading is fiction....

If you don't really read, why do you need one?    ~ForumIrritatingSubEditor

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

If you don't really read, why do you need one?    ~ForumIrritatingSubEditor

For the subliminal messages, of course.  Why else?

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Zono:  I've looked at the Sony, and it seems to be the nearest competitor.  The thing I like about the Kindle is that it's screen is NOT an LCD, nor a plasma, nor an OLED or anything that consumes power.  It's based on that "electronic paper" tech that I read about, oh, 10 years or so ago.
[snip]
How does your Sony compare to the above? 

It's exactly the same epaper, in fact it is exactly the same screen.

It apparently does not do B&W graphics very well, either.

It is heavy according to some (for what it is).

I read manga on it  (which comes in B&W) and it works perfectly, mind you, 'white' is really a kind of gray so photographs will never look as good as a print but for what you need it is quite good. Re: weight, I don't know how heavier the kindle is compared to the sony but I can tell you than mine is slightly lighter than the book I'm reading right now (which is about an inch longer than the reader).

I just read in another review, that the Sony has very limited license on which books can be loaded into it-- this would be a deal-breaker for me. Can you confirm/contradict this?

The Kindle has converter software that lets you move existing E-books, text, PDF, etc into the Kindle format (so that the text-resizing works properly).  Thus the host of free books is available to the Kindle as well as purchased ones.   

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Converting books for the sony is relatively painless, so that wouldn't be a concern.

Re: catalog, sony has it's own bookstore (BTW beagle, indeed they charge the same for book & ebook which certainly is idiotic), but I would lie to you if I knew how good or bad it is because to this day I have NOT bought a single ebook there (in fact the only 'ebook' I've bought was a multi-language dictionary for my palm pilot somewhere else). There is a good potential for Amazon going forward but at present time I wouldn't be completely sure of the present state, nor the ability of Sony to get a good catalog. Again I personally don't care because given that the price of the ink & paper version costs the same, I much rather get the real thing and a dodgy txt version from the net (and I refuse to pay for works on the public domain).

I guess you can go to their eBook store and review the catalog and compare it to Amazon's.

At present time the kindle sells for $360 while the sony reader goes for $300 but certainly the ability to get newspapers or wireless access to wikipedia is a plus for the kindle.

[Griffin NoName]

Bob in a quantum state of ebooks - to assist you in continuing to dither - you can see a little video of the Sony.

kindle - is that sort of like hoover is to vacuum cleaner?

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Well, I just ordered an Amazon Kindle.  Should be delivered by Friday, if their website is honest.  The extra shipping was trivially more than the total cost, so why not?

No purchases for books, yet...I'll dump my current E-book collection in there first, and I already have a 4gig SD card I can use, too.

Will review here, if anyone's interested.

I see the current "Views" is 80.  If that number increases significantly (other than my own lurking) I'll post a review, or if anyone asks.

We shall see.  Amazon has an amazing return policy--which I have verified.

The Sony ultimately lost to the wireless book purchase option, and that if my Kindle breaks, all the books I purchased from Amazon can be instantly (relatively) re-downloaded into the replacement Kindle.  This from JE Pournelle's blog.  He's been reviewing computer-related electronics since the '80s.  Was a regular contributor to Byte print magazine and the Byte on-line, too.  Still writes a monthly column.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Well, it came in a smallish-box.  I was moderately surprised how modest the packing-box was, roughly the same size as when I ordered the last Harry Potter book.

Inside the outer box was an inner box--which vaguely looked like a hardback.  Sturdy cardboard case, left side had a slide-tray (made entirely of recyclable fiber material, I was gratified to see) containing the "universal power supply" and a USB to mini-USB cable.  There was a modest printed manual, too.   Both cables were "iPod White".   The power supply is basically a digital switching device (no heavy transformer inside) that takes a fairly wide input range, digitally/switching steps it down to the voltage the Kindle likes.   I do not know that that is, but likely 5v.  I'll post once I have a definitive answer.   The USB cable appears to be a standard one (even though it's white, instead of "traditional" black..  ).

On the right side of the cardboard case is another slide tray made of the same material, and contains the kindle itself, and a nice heavy folding cover.

The kindle was lightweight, and had the battery already installed.  A "sticky-note" cover protected the screen, and had super-basic "turn me on, plug me in" instructions.  I did both-- and the battery showed nearly full charge, and was full within 10 minutes (even though the sticky said 2 hours).  There's a helpful "charging" light, which also indicated a USB connection.

The size?  Well, the screen itself is roughly the same footprint as a single page in a paperback book.  There is roughly an inch (2 cm) margin on the left and right sides that contain the very large "next page" and smaller "back page" buttons.  These are duplicated on the left and right sides.  The top edge is thinner, and contains nothing interesting.  The bottom is roughly 2 1/2 (6cm) wide, and contains a tiny QWERTY keyboard made up of tiny cell-phone-sized buttons.  There are several specialty buttons along the bottom, roughly the same size except for "space" and "search" which are larger.

Above, and to the right of the "keyboard" is a roller-wheel.  Along the right edge of the reading screen is a "cursor screen".  There is a sliver box-cursor, controlled by the roller wheel (which is about 1/2" or 1 cm in diameter).  You basically roll the cursor-box up and down, and depress the wheel to operate the device--else you press one of the specialty buttons.

The back is mostly covered with a rubber material.  At the top of the back, there is a tapered area containing 2 slide switches:  ON/OFF and WIRELESS ON/OFF.   This is cleverly designed so that these are unlikely to be accidentally changed while using the device, even not in it's "portfolio cover", yet if you put it into it's case, you can still reach the switches without needing to remove it.

At the very bottom edge are 3 connectors, and two buttons.  Earphone, mini-USB (Sony-style) and power jack.  The buttons are volume up and down.

The whole thing is tapered from the left edge to the right edge, I noticed, and the overall color is "near-" white.   Tapers from roughly 1/2" thick at the left to roughly 1/4" thick to the right, with the right-hand buttons tapering to a thin edge.   This thing is pretty thin, even housed inside it's protective cover.

The cover is nicely made, sturdy.  Made of what appears to be simulated leather "pleather?  naugahyde?  I thought those naugas were extinct...) on the outside, and a suede-like stuff on the inside.  Black on outside, grey on inside.  There's a heavy elastic band attached to the back, so that you can draw it around the cover to keep it closed, and to trap any paper you may have inserted in there, too... 

No provision for pens, cards or other miscellanea though. 

...

Display is very, VERY crisp:  more so than even the best LCD computer monitors, and more than most LCD panels I've seen.   In fact, I've seen printing-on-paper that was not as crisp as this thing.  No backlight, so adequate lighting is a must.  Sunlight, room light, etc...all equally crisp.

Font is typical of San-Serif or Ariel style, and size is adjustable.  I can read it without reading glasses, if I set it larger.  Right now, I've set it one "notch" smaller than default, and am using fairly weak readers (1.5x).  I may elect to go smaller still-- more text before a next page is needed.

Page change is a bit slower than I expected, but not unreasonable.  A rapid-page-turner might find it a bit slower than turning an actual page in a book, but most people won't notice, I predict.  The display "blinks" from all-black for an instant, then the black-text on white appears all at once.   I suspect that after a few hundred pages, your eyes won't even process this anymore.  OTOH, if blinking bothers you or your vision, this may well be an issue for you.

...

Inserting a 4gig microSD card (inside a micro-to-standard adapter sleeve) proved a snap:  slide open the battery cover (on the back) to expose the standard SD slot.  It appears to understand SDHC, too, as this 4gig card was that type.   From a tip I'd read on-line, I formatted the card in my PC first, making sure it was completely blank, before inserting it into the Kindle.  It reports all 4gig is available for use.

...

I found how to convert your existing e-books on Amazon's site, with a bit of searching.  Not falling-forward simple, but once explained, easy enough.

When you purchase this thing from Amazon, they ask you if it's a gift (I said no...it's a gift to ME! ) and they automatically register your Amazon-associated e-mail address to your new Kindle.  This does a couple of things. 

* it creates 2 Kindle-specific e-mail addresses (name_at_kindle.com and name_at_free.kindle.com   obviously, _at_ is really @   )
* it creates an association between your Amazon-associated account e-mail address and your Kindle.

This is important for a couple of things:  announcements and new content has notices sent to your associated address.  You can send your own content to the _at_kindle.com addresses.   The first one is sent wireless directly to your kindle, with a $0.10/US per item charge.  The second one "bounces" through their conversion software, and comes back with a notice to your associated address.  You download that to your PC, and then put it on your Kindle via the USB cable.

There is also a filter at Amazon, so that nothing gets to your kindle (and thus being charged) unless you specifically enable that e-mail address in "Manage My Kindle" at Amazon.  Normally, the only inbound messages that _at_kindle addresses receive is the one you associated initially.  This completely eliminates SPAM or unwanted charges.

I decided I wanted a kindle-only and specific e-mail address, so I activated one of my dormant addys with my cable internet provider, and using Manage My Kindle, changed the associations and names.  Now only Kindle-specific traffic will come on these addresses.

....

Reading on the Kindle.  So far, the only thing I've read on it is the already-loaded instruction manual, and a nice "welcome" letter from Amazon.

There's a built-in dictionary, already loaded too.   You can elect to highlight a line of text, click the roller, move to and click "look up" and every word in that line is defined.  Nice.

You can add annotations and highlights if you like-- I've not experiment with that, except to practice highlighting.  That consists of not changing the background color (as would be traditional) but drawing a fine box around the highlighted section(s).   Quite workable.   Have not tried the notes-- not something I do or am likely to do.

As I write this, I'm waiting on some conversion software to change my Micro$oft Reader LIT files into something the Kindle can digest, via the on-line conversion software. 

Will write more, as I learn more.

---

Edit:  added some missing details.

[Griffin NoName]

I suspect that after a few hundred pages, your eyes won't even process this anymore.  OTOH, if blinking bothers you or your vision, this may well be an issue for you.

Volunteers required to see if flicking through several pages (like fanning a paper book) can induce an epileptic fit