Mesozoic Warmth

[Griffin NoName]

Dinosaur flatulence caused climate change

[Aggie]

I want to see the full set of calculations.  I don't buy it, as compared to emissions from anaerobic decomposition in swampland. There was plenty of it then.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Dunno, sometimes you only need a push for a positive feedback (ie, more warmth helps create more swamps, etc).

[Swatopluk]

Given that modern bovines are a significant contributor through their methane production (less through farting than burping) it is not absurd to consider similar effects for the dinosaur age. There is research into a pill for ruminators that keeps the methane low.

[Sibling DavidH]

They should keep the cows in a fairly airtight barn, and fit an exhaust fan to channel the methane-rich atmosphere into the air intake of a boiler.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

It doesn't need to be airtight but you must have a collector on top, I saw a proposal for keeping the cows in something like a huge tent where the collector was on the apex (methane will rise naturally). Obviously it would prevent open air grass feeding/free range cattle.

[Sibling DavidH]

Obviously it would prevent open air grass feeding/free range cattle.

Put each cow in a kind of spacesuit, with a solar-powered compressor and a cylinder in a harness.

[Swatopluk]

But how shall the spacesuit wearing cow eat?
One would need a transparent tent that moves with it.
Or the whole range has to be 'tented'.

[Sibling DavidH]

But how shall the spacesuit wearing cow eat?

Its head sticks out of the suit, with a seal at the neck.

Yes, I know, much of the methane comes out as burps.  Still, you'd catch a lot.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

The mad scientist solution:

A bio-engineered bacteria that lives in the cows' gut-- it converts the methane into a solid hydro-carbon material that the cow can easily pass.   These "oil pellets" could then be picked up by a machine similar to what picks up golf balls at the golf driving range.

The bacteria, obviously, consumes some of the methane for it's energy use, but not all of it.

[Sibling DavidH]

Hey, to a non-scientist SF fan, that actually sounds as if it might be feasible. 

[pieces o nine]

Holy Bullsh*t Batman, there's marketing *gold* to be made from that idea!   

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

[Roland Deschain]

It's a funky idea, Bob, but it might just work. On the tent thingy, it would need to have a transparent top with water collectors. The water could be used to water the grass underneath, plus maybe a little more. Of course it would have to be a floating one, necessitating helium tanks with our current technology. It would follow the herd around the field while simultaneously keeping them hemmed in. They would be mostly free range, but the tent would need to be huge to accommodate a large herd.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Methane is slightly heavier than air-- so...

... what we could do?  Is seed the pasture with vacuum suction orifices, with methane detectors.   Not unlike a kinda reverse watering system-- most orifices would be closed, and only one or three would open, triggering the central vacuum motor to come on, drawing in the methane (mixed with air, of course).  Then you use a chemical absorber--something that binds to the methane molecules, for later extraction.

This could work, actually-- especially if you incorporate motion detectors too.    I'm sure there's some kind of methane absorbing chemical out there, that when heated a bit, would re-release the methane for processing. All kinds of organic molecules abound, one is likely to work.

The only thing I worry about?  Is if the process (energy) of drawing in the methane, and collecting it, would exceed the net energy gained by the methane itself...

.... what we really need?  Is methane absorbing bacteria/plants-- or better, a hybrid in the form of a grass (nutritious to cows, of course).  The cow releases the methane via either of the standard openings, which being heaver than air, sinks to the ground, where the grass draws it in, and utilizes the methane as an energy source (to make more grass-- what else?).    Neatly closing the circle, here.

It could work-- the grass would grow much faster than on plain sunlight, and you'd either let the cows eat it, or harvest it for hay (or both).

[Roland Deschain]

That may work, Bob. Methane, as you know, is CH₄. All you'd need is for the grass to either utilise the hydrogen as well as the carbon, as you don't want the more inflammable hydrogen floating around in that quantity, or to release the hydrogen as it does with the oxygen from CO₂, it being lighter than air and being sucked out for storage.

This hydrogen, if not used by the grass, could be used to power hydrogen fuel cells. Now i'm not sure of power usage, as you point out above, but if there's enough of the stuff released and collected, these hydrogen fuel cells could power the extraction equipment, or at the least offset a large percentage of the running costs of the exercise.

I'm not completely sure if we're setting ourselves up for something akin to a perpetual motion machine, what with not knowing figures or logistics for this endeavour, but it's certainly intriguing. A quick trip to the patent office, anyone?

[Swatopluk]

The technical problem is the short life expectancy of fuel cells. They need very clean input to start with (CO and any sulphur compound will render them unusable in a very short time) and to keep the huge specific surface necessary while having electrolysis resp. reverse electrolysis is tricky too. Those very processes will over time reorder the structure towards denser states (i.e. surface reduction). It's damn difficult for that not to happen during the production already.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

I'm not completely sure if we're setting ourselves up for something akin to a perpetual motion machine, what with not knowing figures or logistics for this endeavour, but it's certainly intriguing. A quick trip to the patent office, anyone?

Does it count, if part of your "perpetual motion" comes from sunlight? 

Don't forget, all plants utilize photosynthesis, which is basically sunlight via a catalyst, cracking water and CO2 to make hydrocarbons for the plant's use.

[Roland Deschain]

These are all things i'd not taken into consideration. We need an engineer, a biochemist, a botanist/biologist (?), and a physicist. Basically we need new technological breakthroughs to increase the efficiency of hydrogen collection, maintaining its purity, and more efficiency in the solar cells, maybe even developing transparent ones which can live on the top of the tent to further add power.

I think cost effectiveness is lowering dramatically here, but if they are developed by those involved in the project, they can be sold for profit. We could even forget about the tent, and live off of the proceeds from the transparent solar cells and other technology.

[Sibling DavidH]

We also need a load of cows.  They're in a shed near me at the moment.  Unless the farm people go for a second cut of silage, they'll be parking them in the field opposite me any time now.