Toadfish Monastery

So, here's a topic that would fit neatly in Food, EH & NH, or Money Saving tips....  but let's not forget it's about food foremost!

I am a dedicated omnivore, but we've been eating less meat lately for several reasons - the biggest factors are health (paranoia about contaminants, additives and BSE, traditional concerns like cholesterol and saturated fats), environmental concerns (factory farming) and $$$!  And overall, I'm finding that subbing out some or all of the meat I eat just feels better.  The big key for us has been to ignore whether there's meat in a meal, and just eat what's tasty.  Too much emphasis cutting the meat can leave you with boring food, but pursuing tasty dishes that just happen to not include meat is delicious!  From a 'fun to cook' perspective, reducing the meat has kept me from following the same old ruts, and given me an opportunity to work with new flavours and ingredients - YAY!  I find that this is also true of low-fat cooking... if you stop taking the lazy fat/salt route to flavour, you get to play with fun spices and your tastebuds think they've gone to the Big Tongue in the Sky!  ;D
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We've also been trying to integrate some more organic foods into the diet, where it's cost effective - this involves some strategy in targeting 'high-risk' foods, and focusing on reasonably-priced organic produce.  Some of the organic products we are using are actually cheaper than non-organic national brands, and the yardstick I hold for produce is 'Would I pay this price for non-organic produce?' - even if it's not the cheapest price, is it reasonable for that item?   Some items have been relegated to treats only, like yogurt - the organic stuff is much tastier, but more expensive, so we just eat it once in a while.  Other items like butter and eggs are significantly more expensive, but worth buying because we use so little.  Actually, especially with produce, the organic stuff is just tastier, and therefore worth the small premium. 
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The biggest problems I've been having lately is to find some viable alternative sources for meat - traditional  organic meats are ridiculously expensive.  If we ate enough meat to justify buying a whole cow or even a side (split with others), there'd be more options, such as having a local farmer raise an animal for me - but with the meat reduction, it's not an option.  I might look into a lamb instead, which would be a more manageable amount of meat, and tastier! Organic or free-range poultry should be easier to track down.  I really need to start hunting again (best option), but I'm not well set up for that right now.  :P


Anyways, after much rambling... I'll turn over the thread to the rest of y'all to give some more perspectives on going veggie et al.   :mrgreen:

Going veg was one of the more difficult things I've ever done- I still slip and I've never been totally vegan.

I think starting slow helps- it helped me- going "cold turkey" will not work for most people.

There are some meat substitute items that are quite tasty and nutritious- some are truthfully just gross and nasty. so I'd encourage you to check your local supermarket- and not just the "vegetarian section" either- many companies (like Hormel vegetarian chili) have vegetarian products in their line. I like to make things at home- so get to know products like Seitan and such. Experiment and see what you like.

some good online places are pangea.org, vegweb(I think it's a .com)and vegan resource guide-- they also have links to suppliers of good quality veg products.

Cost can be a problem- if you aren't careful you can spend way over budget-so like you were saying - be inventive.

I don't think going vegetarian is for everyone- I think it is a healthy lifestyle and all but I'm not going to say to another that they have to do it my way or they are like bad or something- to each his own. I do want everyone to stop and do some investigation of factory farming and cruelty however- then make up your own mind.

All are welcome at the anthrobabe's table! And I'll even cook for you!

Hey - anthrobabe! Good to see you!

The funny thing about me and eating veggie - I almost never think of my protein-ingredients as 'meat substitutes', and have a definite dislike for anything pretending to be meat*.  I also am skeptical about the health or cost benefits of replacing meat with a highly-processed soy protein product or similar, so we usually stick to plain tofu or often just go straight vegetables; we usually throw some mixed grains or beans in with the rice, and I'm starting to get the feel for lentil dishes (love 'em!).  I rarely buy pre-packaged foods containing meat, so there's no need to find veggie replacements.

I think part of the difficulty in switching over to a veggie diet for many people is getting used to the idea that one doesn't need a meat-type dish at every meal.  It took a while for me to get out of the habit, but I think I've had an easier time than some because I like to cook mostly one-pot type dishes rather than the 'meat and two veg' routine.  Meat becomes simply another ingredient, not the main focus, especially if you are already using a large variety of vegetables!  It's not unheard of for us to use both tofu and meat in the same dish, especially if you count fish cake and things like that, but leaving it out usually doesn't fundamentally change the meal.  I think it helps to be a bit lazy too... we usually keep some tofu in the fridge, and it's easier to whip up a quick dinner with it than to thaw out a chunk of meat last-minute.   ;D

It's funny, but even these little adjustment have changed my appetite for meat... I still enjoy chicken as much as ever, but really could care less about eating beef now.  I'm never planning to quit completely - I like food in general too much!

_{*I loooves veggie burgers that aren't the 'beef-substitute' type, particularly the Yves Garden Vegetable Patties.}

Quote from: anthrobabe on February 07, 2007, 06:20:31 PMI do want everyone to stop and do some investigation of factory farming and cruelty however- then make up your own mind.

Aye, I'm appalled at factory farming, particularly from an environmental and an epidemiological POV.  The modern meat industry (both production and processing) makes me dearly want to start hunting again - at least I can take personal control and responsibility for any suffering inflicted and minimize it as much as possible.  It's no fun at all to kill something, but personally, it's the living conditions of the animals in FF rather than the method of dispatch that bothers me - bush animals at least live a natural life.  I know it's a distasteful subject for vegetarians, but I can't believe how many supermarket meat-eaters consider table-hunting to be 'cruel' or 'gross'.  Contrary to popular belief, beef doesn't grow on trees..  :-\

I did the veggy-diet for a number of years, several years ago.

I started it for health reasons, and to impress a girl. 

I stayed with it because I liked it (I never got around to actually telling that particular girl, alas, and I haven't seen her in years ...)

I gradually re-introduced meat into my diet, but minimal portions.  I often go several days meatless, then sometimes I binge and only have an oven roasted chicken breast for supper.

Since I have low blood sugar, I find that the easiest way to keep that in check, is with protein.

And here in the US, meat proteins are the cheapest, and sometimes I'm just too tired to veggy-out.

But, I DO prefer low-meat diets most times.  I think I've been doing that for many, many years now.  Most folk get 'way too much meat than they need (or that is good for them).

And, I prefer those veggy-chili's.  Taste is more subtle and complex than the meat-encrusted ones, I think.  ;D

Mmm... I just re-heated some Triangle Bean Curd Family Style that I ordered from our local Chinese restaurant last Saturday and it was EVEN BETTER than it was Saturday night.

I have been vegetarian for many years (put my foot down about eating meat at age sixteen, that's all I'll say) and I agree with you guys, fake meat is NOT the way to go! It tends to be too mealy and slimey.

I still do dairy though, being a cheese-aholic. I love quiches and cheese souffles- especially the ones with spinach- yum! I am not big on cooking, but I have a few recipes so simple that even a kitchen bumbler like me can pull them off.

Quote from: Opsanus tau on February 12, 2007, 07:03:48 PM
Mmm... I just re-heated some Triangle Bean Curd Family Style that I ordered from our local Chinese restaurant last Saturday and it was EVEN BETTER than it was Saturday night.

That's probably a good tip for veggie cooking (and cookery in general) - anything 'one dish' that has a fair amount of liquid (soups, stews, sauces, etc.) ALWAYS tastes better the next day, especially if using strong spices, a variety of flavours or items like tofu that 'take on' the flavour of what they are cooked with.  (http://www.diamondring.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbup2.gif)

So are you saying that we should work on tomorrow's dinner tonight?
??? :)

I'm starting to think that's the most sensible thing to do, though I rarely get motivated enough after dinner.  For the working types, it's the easiest way to get a hot meal on the table FAST, and then one can put it together the next night's fare at leisure.  I would like to at minimum do a twice-weekly ingredient prep (slice the veggies up etc), but that probably wouldn't work with the way we cook these days - different foods need different textures and sizes of ingredients.  I did lay up a bunch of frozen garlic puree cubes, though, which have been handy.

For the two of us, we find that less meat-intensive foods are quite easy to prepare in large enough quantities to hold over for more than one meal - hotpots in particular seem to easily stretch for 2 dinners and sometimes lunches between, and only require a new pot of rice if the old one gets used up.  I looooooves hotpot! 

Gotta get the fridge re-stocked with kimchi and a variety of Korean side dishes this week, too.  Korean-style meals are easy as pie...  a hot dish or soup is nice, but in a pinch we can make a meal of side dishes, rice and kim (seasoned seaweed sheets, kind of like tastier, salted sushi wraps).

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Oh, side note.... I've been sprouting lentils lately, and they make a good addition either to the rice pot (when small) or to the main fare (when tall).

I agree with what some of you are saying about replacing meat with fake heavily processed meat substitutes- not really much of a benefit overall(health wise) so while I think some of the analogues ( spelling?) are good and nutritious but simply being vegetarian ( on the label) doesn't mean it is necessarily better or nutritious--- so good points.

I most certainly think that any hunted meat is probably going to be more nutritious that factory farmed meat- and it's not really barbaric and cruel at all to hunt-- responsible hunters are the rule - it's the morons who give it a bad name. Of course I'm not a hunter myself- just not for me.

Adding beans and upping amounts of vegetables to any dish is a good way to go- and it very often stretches the food budget and such. I do not like GMO foods- but how can we stop them-- now that's one to ponder.

Quote from: anthrobabe on February 13, 2007, 05:59:24 PM
I most certainly think that any hunted meat is probably going to be more nutritious that factory farmed meat- and it's not really barbaric and cruel at all to hunt-- responsible hunters are the rule - it's the morons who give it a bad name. Of course I'm not a hunter myself- just not for me.

I don't actually advocate hunting (since it's only sustainable if there are relatively few hunters), and any moron who kills for the sake of killing should have their guns taken, or be hunted down and shot.  >:(
Going veggie is still more efficient, although the upside of bush meat is that the animals are browsing on plants which aren't generally food sources for humans - unlike grain-fed beef.

Quote from: anthrobabe on February 13, 2007, 05:59:24 PMAdding beans and upping amounts of vegetables to any dish is a good way to go- and it very often stretches the food budget and such. I do not like GMO foods- but how can we stop them-- now that's one to ponder.

Ach - another problem!  The individual solution is "grow yer own" - easier for the veg, tougher for the grains.  I suppose consumer pressure will be the key - education, education, education!  I'm not actually against all GMO foods in principle, but from what I've seen the technology isn't being used for the good - crops like "RoundUp Ready" cereals really bother me - shouldn't we be using biotechnology to replace our dependence on pesticides, not increase it?  It's scary that GMO crops likely are/will be used without disclosing the nature of the modifications. I'm also concerned at the loss of genetic diversity in crop plants - wherever 'supercrops', GMO or not, totally replace historical varieties, we are in deep doo doo.

Bleah, the sick part about this all is that the old locally-distributed family farm, raising a variety of crops and animals, is much more ecologically sustainable than chemically-supported monocultures and feedlots, and goes a long way in solving the problems we're talking about (plus, there's less need for transporting, and the dollars stay local).  Yet the chain supermarkets in general won't distribute foods unless they are shipped through the official supply channels - why in the heck would I want to buy US apples when the orchard up the road is in peak production? :p

Oh sure thing about killing just to be killing- that is an assured no-no. And the idea about sustainability is a good point-- if all 6 billion plus take up arms and go "huntin" we are really going to be in trouble.

Gmo and patenting seeds and such is the way things are going- I wonder what Mendel would think? I read on the net about having a 100 mile holiday dinner- the idea is to only consume foods from with in 100 miles of ones home--- very thought provoking-- the local large market doesn't lend itself to this idea and the farmers markets are very seasonal in general (at least around here).

I would love to have 10 acres and a garden with an orchard-- I have an organic gardening book from the 1970's ( about 1000 pages) and it has a wonderful plan for a 1 acre orchard. But I don't think it's feasable for every family any longer to have the live off your own land model-- we've just moved on from that.( at least in the USA)

We're lucky to be in a fairly rural area, and to have the availability of small farmer/rancher produced foods. I have been able to eliminate a lot of the supermarket meats from our diet, although we cannot ever eliminate meat. (I'm always behind on my protein consumption, and will be until we can find a powder supplement that is ONLY whey protein, not 'with a little egg in with it' or 'some soy'. Yay allergies.)

I'm searching for a good source for chicken, one that doesn't add color and fluid to a basic chicken. I KNOW what deceased chickens are supposed to look like, and that supermarket, water-bloated and yellow dyed stuff isn't it. We have to locate and get approval on all my food sources before I will be allowed to do the Indium-111 trial since one of the recent participants got very ill from some home-processed SOMETHING (gossip says homemade yogurt from unpasteurized milk) so we're all being grilled about diet.

I considered just writing in Taco Bell and seeing how fast I got yelled at...

Anyway, the County Agricultural Agent is trying to find fresh chicken for me. Eggs? Not a problem, except the egg allergy... He has pointed us to a guy who ranches and cuts his own meat for a tiny meat market (open 3 days a week) and we've made friends at a couple of local sausage 'plants' where the meat is all homegrown, no feedlots, no (as one guy put it) "ass-troids feedin' steroids, and not all full of drugs".

In order to keep me as healthy as possible, we're trying to cut the yucky stuff completely, so food gathering is becoming an adventure. I was griping about driving 15 miles to a grocery store. We now dive 34 miles to the meat market. And sometimes, we get chased inside by next week's pot roast, too, because it's still out walking around!

Dan's been invited deer hunting, and there are a lot of people around here that DO hunt for the table. You know you're in rural Texas when someone says something about someone shooting an animal that's not edible, and if the answer to "Was it eatin' his crops?" is no, the next comment is "Asshole." Dan didn't go hunting this year, but might next year, or the year after, if the headcount on deer gets really high again. (If they aren't reduced in level, then they start overpopulation starvation, and illness sets in, etc.) This year was a little high count, so it depends on the count prior to next season.

I grew up on what was raised and hunted for the table, so it won't bother me. (I may resort to growing my own chickens, but I don't want to process them. I pluck 'em, but that's it.) I figure if the guy down the street can raise a couple hogs in the back yard, a pen of chickens won't be a problem.

Was looking around for some recipies- sources for a pastry(nazook) Darlica was talking about and came across this web site----

many - vegetarian products here=http://www.kalamala.com/specials.php (http://here=http://www.kalamala.com/specials.php)  I pasted the 'specials' page but you can navigate from it.

I got an "address not found" on that, AB. Please post again.

Recently many of our chain grocery stores have been offering organic and vegetarian lines at generic prices and that's very encouraging to a lazy cook such as myself.

Recently we have been thinking of ways to grow food instead of lawn. We have just created a series of four small slightly raised beds in our back yard where we want to try veg-and-flower combos in the spring. Now I have to bother my horsey pals for some aged manure to supplement them. The beds are just large enough to attempt some basic salad plants without making too much work.

Onions and garlic...alliums both--flower nicely, as does spent broccoli. Brocc has pretty tiny yellow flowers that are a lovely 'filler flower' type. I used to use the broccoli flowers from the garden in my church flower arrangements every fall.

Home grown or safely/organically grown carnations make great salads! A spicy taste, usually, and pretty. Make your average field greens or leaf lettuce a treat!

Speaking of alliums, chives are very nice bloomers (garlic chives, too!).

There are many nice ornamental versions of basil out there, and sage is lovely on it's own, in terms of herbs.  For veggies, carrot tops would make a nice border; does anyone know if ornamental kale (the purple one) is edible? 

For edible flowers, I'm a big fan of daylilies and have heard that shoots and tubers are also edible - check your species though, as I'm not sure all are edible.  And nasturtiums are always a favorite.

Rosemary is a very pretty bordering shrub, plus it's a good natural pesticide for the other crops.

Ornamental kale is edible, but it's pretty tough. (I am not a big fan of kale anyway...I would grow bok choy instead, or a red-tip leaf lettuce.)

Good article on edible bloomers...
http://www.gardenguides.com/how-to/tipstechniques/planning/edible.asp

And a caveat: There is a high incidence of allergies in first time daylily eaters. Start slow!!

Quote from: Opsanus tau on November 03, 2007, 02:02:04 PM
I got an "address not found" on that, AB. Please post again.

Recently many of our chain grocery stores have been offering organic and vegetarian lines at generic prices and that's very encouraging to a lazy cook such as myself.

Recently we have been thinking of ways to grow food instead of lawn. We have just created a series of four small slightly raised beds in our back yard where we want to try veg-and-flower combos in the spring. Now I have to bother my horsey pals for some aged manure to supplement them. The beds are just large enough to attempt some basic salad plants without making too much work.

try kalamala.com and see it it comes up-----  http://www.kalamala.com/    sorry for the broken link

I've eaten the dandelion greens (both frozen and canned) they are quite tasty- but the neighbors will murder you if you grow them- of course they are best harvested before they get big and bloom/seed-- so if kept in check (maybe a raised dedicated bed?) they'd be good- they are very nutritious. the blooms are edible as well- I've seen pancake recipies using them- need to try it.

Rosemary can be clipped into nice topiary shapes or bush like Chatty said- and it smells so good.

I like kale-- not large amounts but in salad I do like it. I did not know the ornamental was edible - but that does make sense.

many flowers are edible-- roses, nasturtiums, etc-but like someone said- no chemicals!

does anyone do bugs/insects--- I've always heard of ants and fried locusts(also dried and ground as a sort of 'flour' --- and of course grubs of all sorts--- as an anthropologist I need to try some, but haven't yet.

Ahh, that linked worked AB. Thank you.

And thanks, Chatty, for the edible garden link. Looks good.

I have sage and rosemary in my front garden, where it's drier and more like their native habitat. My back (where the new beds are) gets pretty soggy, which is why we made raised beds. I like the nasturtiums idea, as they would look pretty draping over the edges.

Quote from: anthrobabe on November 04, 2007, 01:21:18 PMdoes anyone do bugs/insects--- I've always heard of ants and fried locusts(also dried and ground as a sort of 'flour' --- and of course grubs of all sorts--- as an anthropologist I need to try some, but haven't yet.

Only accidentally. ;)  It my biggest food taboo, in my head I'm sure, but can't get my head around eating something that is more innards than muscle (and a face, since I do eat shellfish).  It's the thought of eating insect abdomens that bugs me out... 

I personally won't touch anything that didn't have an endo-skeleton when it was alive. Anything else--if it was humanely killed and I didn't know it's name, then I eat it.

I've had an rather icky foray into vegetarianism. My aunt can't cook and we were staying with her. Corn does not belong in lasagna.

Nasturtiums have a really nice peppery flavor and compliment salads really nicely. I will have to try them in more things when they bloom again.

I live in an (large) farming community and we have nearly everything within a hundred miles, unless it's a tropical fruit. So we often go to roadside farms for strawberries and string beans and such. Most of them are pretty good about pesticides.

Since I have become unable to digest most peppers (black pepper in any quantity, bell peppers, Asian reds, chipotle, etc--although I can still do some cayenne and a bit of anejos and other Mexicas/South American peppers) it's been a bit difficult to properly season foods that I will be sharing.

A Phillipina friend was fixing a stir-fry that was to be served to 5 of us, and I was concerned because she was leaving out the peppers just for me. She got the dish within a few moments of being done and tossed in 5 nasturtium blossoms, then very shortly served my plate, then added 6 or 7 more, cooked them for a few seconds, and served everyone else. The taste was wonderful, and did not upset my touchy digestive system!

All the alliums--garlic and onions--were also home grown, as was her bok choy.

Yum

Quote from: Kanaloa the Squidly on November 05, 2007, 07:06:18 PM
I've had an rather icky foray into vegetarianism. My aunt can't cook and we were staying with her. Corn does not belong in lasagna.

:ROFL:

My second-biggest pet peeve about 'vegetarian cooking', right after fake meat.  Just because you are leaving out ONE ingredient doesn't mean you need to throw every veggie in the house at the dish to compensate!  I've had similar suspect 'lasagna' as a kid.  My favorite meated version is heavy on the grilled veg anyways and would be just as good without the quadruped (mmm, lasagna... wrong thread to mention that I picked up some striploin at 'cheap enough to grind' prices? :devil2:).

Quote from: Agujjim on November 05, 2007, 08:59:54 PM

Quote from: Kanaloa the Squidly on November 05, 2007, 07:06:18 PM
I've had an rather icky foray into vegetarianism. My aunt can't cook and we were staying with her. Corn does not belong in lasagna.

:ROFL:

My second-biggest pet peeve about 'vegetarian cooking', right after fake meat.  Just because you are leaving out ONE ingredient doesn't mean you need to throw every veggie in the house at the dish to compensate!  I've had similar suspect 'lasagna' as a kid.  My favorite meated version is heavy on the grilled veg anyways and would be just as good without the quadruped (mmm, lasagna... wrong thread to mention that I picked up some striploin at 'cheap enough to grind' prices? :devil2:).

:ROFL: :ROFL:

go grind your striploin somewhere else Aggie   :mrgreen:

Sorry, vegefolk...striploin?? Yum.

AS I sit here on my damnable day2 of liquid diet...tomorrow being CLEAR LIQUID ONLY!! :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :headbang: :help: :censored:

I hope you survived!

Survived, but back to my constant post-procedure problem.

If i stop eating long enough to do these things, I really lose all interest in food--again. By the end of the second day of liquids only, I lose interest in food, then I don't get it back, so I don't eat, and then I get anemic, and then I get sick. ARRGHHH...

I have figured out, however that an apple and a generic Pop-Tart aren't sufficient nutrition for any given 24 hour period. (I think Dan's telling me to eat or get dragged to the ER was my clue.) So, I'm able to manage about 3/4 cup total food volume now. (Sorry vege folks, but it is, of necessity, mostly meat.) The bruising is always a clue.

I'm certain that there's eventually going to be a loooong discussion with the endocrine doc and the oncologist about all this, but I'll be damned if I can figure out how to make it work better.  :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

no- you have to eat what you can eat and all--- so eat, I know nothing is worse that making yourself eat when you have no desire to eat-sometimes you just have to. Can you/will you drink milk shakes- not those canned nutrition ones but good old with milk and ice cream and fruit and such? Buy some protein powder at the GNC and mix it in, or mix in the canned nutrition ones with extra stuff.

I do the same thing when I get depressed- depression is a good diet- but not good over all.

Protein powder ;D

Let the fun begin!!

OK, rule out 3/4 of them because I am allergic to eggs, and egg protein is the easiest source for these things. Then you take out the ones that are soy. More than a small amount of soy is detrimental to neuro-endocrine cancer folks, especially carcinoid ones. That leaves whey protein powders. They're out there, the job is finding one that's not loaded with a lot of other stuff I can't have. The GNC guy just gave up, but Mr. Smoothie King is sending off for one that he THINKS I can tolerate.

Mr. Smoothie King has a small fit every time I come in their door. I can't have bananas...I can't have most of his products, I can't use anything with the chemical artificial sweeteners, and he has nothing with stevia...so he HAS to use honey, but it has to be processed, not the wild honey they usually use. (He's vehemently against sugar...or any foodstuff that's processed by anyone other than a health food company.)

He finally quit adding things to my smoothies without consulting me. The third time he had to say "But I didn't know people could be allergic to..." the paramedics told him they'd be billing HIM, not my insurance, if he EVER did it again. (Anaphylactic shock in people that cannot tolerate epinephrine is difficult to deal with. Hospitals HATE that...so do paramedics.)

But, there is ice cream...that's gotta be better for me than generic Pop-Tarts, in limited amounts. (There's egg in ice cream, ya know, so I gotta be careful.) Gotta get some frozen yogurt again.

Appetite better. Ate some Cheetos with an apple about 5 AM because my stomach acid was about to destroy me. Arrrgh. Food is just too much trouble.

Hmmm...  the brand of whey I was using is AFAIK just concentrated whey protein.  I tried another brand and got pretty  :barf: trying to keep it down, but the first was fine.

Trouble is, it's a local product and I'm not sure how shippable to the US it is in the current packaging (just double-bagged with a label slipped in between the two bags... remind me to look for the bag at home if I haven't used it all. Otherwise I'll try to find it again at the market and get some contact info for you.

YAY!!

The whey protein that I can get here is processed in the same place and on the same machinery as stuff with egg in it. 5 years ago, it wasn't a problem. (5 years ago, I could have potato salad with a tiny bit of egg in it,  too.) So, as the allergy gets worse, there is less room for error.

The one whey that the Smoothie Guy is trying to get is made in Canada... He's not optomistic, because they'd have to buy in quantity, and it's not cost efficient for them. It's usually about the profits, not the customer, but he's been really good about telling brokers that he can't 'slip in a little egg' because I WOULD know the difference.

I ate a bite of chocolate meringue pie today that I was told was chocolate pie with whipped cream. As soon as I realized it, I spit it out. Took 2 Atarax (three times the strength of Benadryl) to stop the wheezing, and my mouth has 'blisters' in several places.

No more eggies!

Thanks for thinkin' about me. This bein' weird stuff is gettin' out of hand here...

Hmm...  found out a bit on this whey protein:

The packager is in Alberta (http://albertanaturalproducts.com/) but it's a product of the USA.  Contains some soy (<1% soy lecithin).  It's also marked 80% whey protein, so there's a chance that something else is involved, although the ingredients only specify Whey Protein Concentrate and the lecithin (I'm guessing that it's 80% proteins by weight, but not sure).  They also seem to make a 90% protein product.

I'll contact them to see where I can access US info on the products.

Thanks!

allergies are tricky-- and the importance of "don't add ANYTHING, unless you ask me" can not be underscored--- good for you teaching this to the smoothie guy!

I learned this early on working at Taco Bell as a teenager and the 'red dye' allergy issue was just surfacing and a mom asked about and said no red dye in anything and the 'steamer" (cook) fixed the bean burrito--- with red sauce!!!!!! luckily the mom grabbed it before it was eaten but just handling the burrito caused the kids hands to wheal up!

No means no-- period- no matter what the 'cook- etc' thinks.


FOOD FIGHT!!!!! really     here= http://www.foodfightgrocery.com/ (http://here=%20http://www.foodfightgrocery.com/)
food fight grocery--  online store- including an area for 'fake meaty stuff' and 'chees-ish, no cows were squeezed making these products", 'exotics- for the stuff that makes people go what?"    lots of the same old generic stuff but some nice items not regularly found other places

Just found this web site

Wild Food Plants (http://wildfoodplants.com/)

just look around- some fantastic ideas and trivia-- and look to the left margin and click on the link to prickly pear stucco and bbq---- YEAH, prickly pear is truly one of the most amazing plants (yes I know it is also a weed, I hear fellow persons from Arizona sabre rattling). When the San Xavier del Bac mission was restored the family who was hired to restucco it was hired because they had many years of cactus stucco experience and that is original to the mission.

Ever read "Stalking the Wild Asparagus"?  ;)


Good book, that....   it's asparagus season here in about a month.

Quote from: anthrobabe on April 05, 2008, 08:17:31 PM
Just found this web site

Wild Food Plants (http://wildfoodplants.com/)

just look around- some fantastic ideas and trivia-- and look to the left margin and click on the link to prickly pear stucco and bbq---- YEAH, prickly pear is truly one of the most amazing plants (yes I know it is also a weed, I hear fellow persons from Arizona sabre rattling). When the San Xavier del Bac mission was restored the family who was hired to restucco it was hired because they had many years of cactus stucco experience and that is original to the mission.

Interesting site -not least seeing and reading about the californian varieties of some plants that also grow here in Sweden. The chanterelle looked rather different from the ones we have!

While I am not all that much of a forager, I like picking wild mushrooms and berries, and we do have some lovely hazels growing next to our summer house in the sotuh of Sweden. And fresh young dandelion leaves in a nice salad is really a lovely spring dish!

There s a vegan in the sewing circle who has been educating the group about what does and does not constitute vegetarianism...

This weekend she strongly corrected a member who thought vegetarians ate fish instead of red meat with, "Those are vegaquarians!"

Quote from: pieces o nine on April 06, 2008, 10:06:52 PM
There s a vegan in the sewing circle who has been educating the group about what does and does not constitute vegetarianism...

This weekend she strongly corrected a member who thought vegetarians ate fish instead of red meat with, "Those are vegaquarians!"

LOL!

Reminds me of the old joke:

At a party, a self-professed wit announced to everyone: "I'm a veterinarian.  So, I don't eat meat..."

I love that! I don't eat most meat, but will eat dairy, egg and some fish. So now I know to call myself an ovo-lacto vegequarian! Hee hee- I can just imagine the eyes rolling when I say that!

I have no idea what you'd have to call me--I'll eat meat that's legit free range (ranch or otherwise) but not feedlot or cage. (So that rules out most beef and almost all chicken :( )

A Wild Carnivore?  ;)

Old School?



One day I'd like to not eat any meat that I didn't kill & butcher myself.  That would be Predator, as opposed to the default Scavanger.


Scrib, have you been able to kick restaurant meat?  At home there's plenty of control over what you buy, but I don't have a choice when I'm in the field.  I almost manage to avoid eating any ground meat that I didn't grind myself (the exception is some rather excellent lean ground bison from a supermarket I actually trust for meat - I still won't touch ground beef from 'em, but the bison is worth the risk).  I sometimes slip up and have a burger on the road.

Old School, I think.

I ask them questions. "Feed lot or ranch?"
If they answer my questions right, then I'll eat it. I was at a restaurant in the Bay Area and the waiter either knew enough about the meat industry to answer me, or that's what they really do. So I ate a burger.

I don't think I could butcher an animal myself. I'd just end up moving near a family ranch so I can just buy the meat from them, and not worry about it.
Otherwise, I'd go vegan. : /

Quote from: Scriblerus the Philosophe on April 09, 2008, 04:38:18 AM
I don't think I could butcher an animal myself. I'd just end up moving near a family ranch so I can just buy the meat from them, and not worry about it.
Otherwise, I'd go vegan. : /

Eh, once the skin's off, it's just meat - most of it is separating muscle groups, there's no blood.  And skinning is easy.  Gutting is the gross part.  I like it from a cook's perspective - being involved in the entire process.  I am not sure if I'm committed enough to deal with plucking a bird, though.  We used to just breast out the grouse we shot.

If it was already dead by the time I got to it, I'd be ok (I've been involved in turkey slaughter without issues, as well as having taken a zoology class in high school where dissection was about half the class).
But actually killing the animal? Call me a pansy, but I don't think I can do it.

There's a butcher I trust that lives in the town my brother lives in. He's my source for free-range everything, un-antibioticed and un-steroided meats and poultry. I can't always afford him, but I know I'm safe with what he sells me. After all, I was his choir director at church when he was a kid, and his Mom is a friend... (They're also very aware of my illnesses, and he does a HUGE business in organic, etc. meat for a town of less than 3,000 people.)

I can call 2-3 days ahead, and he'll get me pretty much what I want, packaged and hard frozen, to put in an ice chest and bring home to my freezer. He also sells me the 'excess' organic stuff he orders cheaply, and I'm the ONLY one he does that for. I have a free-range, organic, totally-everything safe turkey that he froze right after Christmas that he sold me for 50 cents a pound. He sold them for $1.39 a pound and didn't really make anything on them.

There are a number of 'small ranchers' that he deals with, as well as having 200 acres of free-range chickens that his brother manages. I just regret my egg allergy, because he has the most beautiful double yolk eggs...

Damn the moron that decided they couldn't afford Dan. I had to turn down roasts and sirloins today... :'(

I've never actually killed an animal I ate, but my maternal grandmother raised chickens and sold eggs for "pin money". On chikkin killin days all the adult female relatives gathered at her house, her sister-in-law's house, or my aunt's house with their chilluns. We kids never hung around for the whole slaughter; after the first few chickens met the their destiny with the axe and flapped around in circles the annual fascinated horror and novelty wore off. We were put to work, however, in plucking them. If you were old enough to eat chicken at grandma's, you were old enough to pluck at least one of them.

A cousin and I, the oldest of the kids, really got into the whole chicken plucking gestalt. We plucked them bald. We plucked their feet. We arranged all the chickens we plucked in the cold bath with their elbows over the sides of the tank, the remnants of their legs crossed, and their necks inclined towards one another so they could enjoy a nice 'hot tub' conversation.

After we had plucked an appropriate number of chickens for our age, we were excused to go catch semi-feral kittens and dress them in doll clothes for the rest of the afternoon. As soon as we left the shed, I suspect our laughing moms and aunts pushed our chickens down into the cold bath where they belonged. The very end of the day featured a special treat under the shade of the huge mulberry bushes flanking the house: either slices of fresh watermelon or home-made icecream, depending on the weather. It was a good day for chikkins to die...

When I went to college, I met a fellow art student, one who had grown up on a farm rather than just visiting grandma every weekend. I learned that she, too had plucked her chickens bald, hung their elbows over the sides of the cold bath tank, and given them 'hot tub parties'.  :D

I have a very tender heart for all animals and birds, even some insects. Yet, due to my upbringing, way deep down inside I believe that chikkins deserve to die...

Quote from: pieces o nine on April 09, 2008, 08:46:14 AM
I've never actually killed an animal I ate

I've never (purposefully) killed an animal I didn't eat.  Well, vertibrates, anyways.  Killing is not fun (it's a terrible feeling), but if you're going to eat meat, something has to die.  I don't mind doing it myself, as humanely as possible.


D'oh.... I got us talking about meat in the Veggie thread again.  Who's got a good lentil recipe for me?

look I've had to gather eggs from broody ill tempered hens
give 'em hot tubs anyday.

and dressing kittens--- we actually dyed some with food color once- I suppose I actually am prison material.


Aggie: good lentil recipie

hmmmmmm--

lentil burritos

Ingredients
1 cup lentils, rinsed
2 cups vegetable stock
1 tablespoon olive oil
1/2 cup diced onion
1 clove garlic, minced
1 cup chopped zucchini (yes, you won't know it is in there and it is good)
1 cup chopped green bell pepper or red bell pepper
1/2 teaspoon ground cumin
1/4 teaspoon hot sauce (to taste)
1 cup mild taco sauce (or hot to taste)
4 ounces monterey jack cheese, shredded (use vegan if you are vegan)
8 flour tortillas
Garnish
diced avocado
sour cream (there is vegan sour cream to be found in some areas)
chopped cilantro

Directions
1Wash& drain lentils.
2Bring to a boil with stock; cover, simmer until just tender, about 20 min.
3Drain if necessary.
4Heat oil on medium heat.
5Cook onion, garlic, zucchini, pepper to tender crisp.
6Stir in lentils, hot sauce,& taco sauce.
7Adjust seasonings.
8Stir in cheese.
9Spoon 1/2 C of mixture down center of each tortilla.
10Roll up (Can assemble ahead& reheat rolled in dampened paper towels in microwave).
11Can be eaten hot or cold.

note: red lentils hold their shape well-don't turn to complete mush, but all lentils are good
I believe this originally came from recipezaar

Thanks!

Quote from: anthrobabe on April 09, 2008, 03:23:23 PM
1 cup chopped zucchini (yes, you won't know it is in there and it is good)

:ROFL:

Now that I have to pay for it, I LIKE zucchini!

Wow! That recipe sounds great! I love lentils. I used to serve lentil soup every Saturday to whomever came to eat it. I had a friend that called it "dirt soup" but he was there every week.

So you actually stir the cheese into the hot mixture before spooning? I am so going to try this.

(PS: Love the chicken and kitten stories! We can't even get near the feral kittens around here- they are truly ornery- but cute as anything.)

Quote from: Opsanus tau on April 09, 2008, 04:43:12 PM
(PS: Love the chicken and kitten stories! We can't even get near the feral kittens around here- they are truly ornery- but cute as anything.)

And kittens do not actually grow real claws until about a year or so.

Up until then, they have microscopically sharp needles instead.   Many have these in their mouths, too.

But they are soooooo cute!  :mrgreen:

Quote from: anthrobabe
look I've had to gather eggs from broody ill tempered hens
give 'em hot tubs anyday.

Same cousin and I dealt with chikkinfear when sent to gather eggs via the buddy method. Child #1 carries a forked sticked, longer than arm's length, and attempts to pin chikkins neck against the coop wall on the first stab. (NB: no injury must befall chikkin! Grandma would know! Also, if you miss, the chikkin gets *real* mad.)
Meanwhile, Child #2 carries wire egg basket and is responsible for reaching under outraged, pinned chikkin to grab any eggs and throw them in said basket as fast as possible without breaking any.

Come to think of it, I didn't get sent on egg gathering duty very often...

Quote from: anthrobabeand dressing kittens--- we actually dyed some with food color once- I suppose I actually am prison material.

We never thought of this! Although I do decorate Dom the Danger Cat with water-based "permanent" markers when experiencing artist's block.

Quote from: Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith And kittens do not actually grow real claws until about a year or so.

Up until then, they have microscopically sharp needles instead.   Many have these in their mouths, too.

But they are soooooo cute!

Especially when they are attempting to flee in layers of doll dresses!


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Lentils... lentils... lentils...

OK.
First, you take yer dead and plucked chikkin.
Then you stuff it wif lentils.
Then you bake until brown and tasty.
Yummm.

yes to kitten needles (see I can be punny at times) -- ok groan if you must,
it's got to be a safety mechanism, usually even dogs will let them go when the needles get in them(mouth and claws)-- this might be the reason dogs (other animals) will shake a cat/kitten instead of trying to bite it to death (sad but true, so sad but even with fur those sharp needle claws and teeth do get through).

Ooh, I have a good rental* lentil recipe now...  will post when I figure out where I left it.

I got fed up with trying to find a decent spice mix and just mutilated a berbere recipe until I got the taste I was looking for.  Major ingredient list for the spices, but once it's blended it's QUICK to do a pot of lentils.




*I calls 'em rentals because until the digestive tract adjusts, you don't own them, you just rent them.  ;D ::)

Quote from: pieces o nine on April 09, 2008, 08:46:14 AM
A cousin and I, the oldest of the kids, really got into the whole chicken plucking gestalt. We plucked them bald. We plucked their feet. We arranged all the chickens we plucked in the cold bath with their elbows over the sides of the tank, the remnants of their legs crossed, and their necks inclined towards one another so they could enjoy a nice 'hot tub' conversation.

It was a good day for chikkins to die...

When I went to college, I met a fellow art student, one who had grown up on a farm rather than just visiting grandma every weekend. I learned that she, too had plucked her chickens bald, hung their elbows over the sides of the cold bath tank, and given them 'hot tub parties'.  :D

...way deep down inside I believe that chikkins deserve to die...

They do. They're ugly and they're mean and spiteful. Almost as bad as Republicans.

NOT FOR THE SQUEAMISH!!!

http://mine.icanhascheezburger.com/view.aspx?ciid=1038921

Quote from: Sibling ChattyNOT FOR THE SQUEAMISH!!!

:D       :D       :D

My head is bowed in shame for laughing at this pitchur.
Also, so you can't see that I am *still* laughing...

I am sending the link to my other depraved chikkin friends, who will heap blessings upon you from afar.

My alterante caption was "Hai! Coem heer oftun?" but it seemed--silly. :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

Hotlinking to...    (http://www.powerstroke.org/forum/images/smilies/smiley_chicken.gif)

Hey- I'm just back from fabulous Farmville, where the Longwood University had a super dining hall with a vegetarian counter. I had a real nice supper of Veg shepherd's pie with lentils and something called rattlesnake stew, which had no rattlesnakes but was a bean and rice dish, very soulfood. Good stuff!

Uses rattlesnake beans, a relative of the pinto bean, but tastier...and a little harder to grow and process in bulk.

Yummy, very much a 'heritage' vegetable.

See second bean down. http://www.victoryseeds.com/catalog/vegetable/beans/beans_dry_pole.html

Ooooh, found my lentil recipe  (it was hanging out with the spices, not with the recipes)

Lentil Spice Mix:

Toast the following whole spices, then grind; alternatively, use ground:

2 tbsp coriander
2 tbsp cumin
2 tsp sesame seeds (I used black, white are fine)
2 tsp mustard seed
2 tsp cardamom
2 tsp fenugreek
2 tsp black peppercorns
1 tsp allspice
1/2 tsp cinnamon (broken)
1/2 tsp cloves
1/2 tsp nutmeg


Mix in the following:

1/2 cup blend of paprika & hot pepper powder to taste
2 tbsp turmeric
2 tbsp garlic powder
2 tsp ginger powder
1 tsp compounded asafotaeda


Once you have the spice blend together, the recipe is as follows:

-Saute' 3 cloves of garlic and 1 chopped onion with a little olive oil over medium heat until they start to brown. 
-Rinse 2 cups of brown lentils, drain & add to pot with alliums and saute' briefly.
-Add 1/4 cup of spice mix, 1 chopped tomato, and 1 L of water or veg stock.
-Squeeze in half a lemon, then add the leftover rind to pot.
-Bring to a boil, cover, simmer on low heat for 20 minutes.

Ho my gawr, that's making my mouth water! Do you serve it on rice, or what? Dang it all, my printer's out of ink. I want to print that out.

Chatty- thanks for the rattlesnake link- pretty flowers on that bean! I may have to try growing some!

It's good on rice (having rice with a meal is a given at our place) or as a side dish, or on its own...  it would probably do OK as a soup if one upped the water and added a bit more tomato to it.  I should give it a go with butternut squash instead/in addition to tomato.

I was so excited as I'd found some wee tiny wild strawberries in my yard, and wild onions that were in a good spot and actually gettin biggish(ya know small green onion size), and loads of dandelions coming on--- got home yesterday and the landlord had come through with the lawn tractor and it's all gone.

Why do people see anything that doesn't come from the store and is in a yard but not 'grass' as a weed. They didn't have any pesticides on them, and not in a place for runoff, and no anthills around them either-- just a nice old yard that has been in business for a while -the house was built in 1940 so the yard has had time to mature and get lovely wild things growing in nice places.

I'm sick----  :'(

at least they can't mow down the walnut trees!

You might like to make a little bed in the yard, somewhere close to the structure, but on the south side so it gets lots of sun. Put a row of rocks around it, or a little wire fence or something to let the landlord know not to mow there. Then invite some of your plant friends in for some undisturbed growing.

That is one idea I do have in mind.
We do have permission, and I am surprised by this, to put in a compost heap at the far back of the yard-and 'fenced' in properly with hay bales (they make good compost heap fences and will eventually get worked into the heap and replaced by new bales too).
I understand their fear of the 'wild yard'-- they own the lot next to my rental lot/house as well and are building a beauty salon on the property for their daughter and naturally don't want a mess next door. But this mowing to the dirt is insane.

Maybe if you could design it as a native plant garden and put in some showier natives (black-eyed susan? echinacea?) to tone down the more modest ones. We have a native plants thread in the gardening section, here. Maybe some of us could send you some seeds. I have about a billion marigold seeds left. They're not native, but they're yours if you want them.

Marigolds are nice-- and don't the make a wash good for 'skeeter bites? I'll pm my addy to you-- anyone is welcome to send me anything!
I have some giant sunflowers planted along the fence- they know what they are so they should be safe and showy--- I just wish I had though to say something, but as I am responsible for mowing I never thought to say 'hey don't mow here please'.
And the roses are coming along- well the two left alive- in pots and lookin good.
There is honeysuckle all over the place, in truth the area where it is needs to be cleared out so the Nandina and other plants show- but the honeysuckle can be mowed on all sides and smells so sweet and I just don't have the energy-- perhaps I can get it in check as things leaf out and I can really see what is and is not.

French marigold seeds are on their way to you! Marigolds are also good for discouraging destructive nematodes in the soil.

I like Frenchies because the blooms are orange and brown and not too huge. Keep busting off the spent flowres and they just grow and grow until they are like a low hedge. I like the smell of the foliage, too.

Happy growing!

PS- just saw some sunflower sprouts in my yard. They must be volunteers from last year!

BUMP

Dear Opsanus
the marigolds were beautiful-- alas my camera work laks but hopefully next year as I saved more seed!

Holiday recipes for VEGetarians-- or people who simply want to eat less animal product
PETA was handing out frozen tofu turkey roasts in places this week- people were accepting them- who knows- yes dear old PETA has issues but many of them are sincerely good people)
I am always looking for something new to add to the old favorites-

Company Beets
2 tbsp. brown sugar
1 tbsp. cornstarch
1/4 tsp. salt
1 tbsp. butter
1 tbsp. lemon juice
2 c. beets, cooked, sliced, drained
1 c. pineapple tidbits, drain and save

Combine brown sugar, cornstarch and salt in a saucepan. Stir in pineapple juice. Cook stirring all the time until thick. Add lemon juice, beets and pineapple. Heat on low until heated through.

Stuffed Acorn Squash
3 medium acorn squash
1/2 lb soyrizo sausage
1/2 lb your favorite vegetarian breakfast soysausage** see below for a make yourself idea
1 teaspoon fresh sage leaves, finely minced
1 cup pepperidge farm herb seasoned stuffing cubes
1 vegetable broth
melted butter

Obviously this isn't going to hold together like meat stuffing- but it works. If you don't like the make yourself breakfast sausage idea then substitute seasoned Boca grounds instead just add sausage seasonings to Boca grounds. Or use a comercially prepared breakfast sausage.
Cook soyrizo until done-do not drain off any drippings- there probably won't be any but if there is be sure and leave it in, add vegetarian breakfast sausage( pre cook the pattys and then break them apart in this) and heat through.
Stir in broth and stuffing cubes.
Wash and cut squash into halves; remove seeds. In a large pot, boil the squash partially, with the cut portion facing down in an inch of boiling water. Boil for 5 minutes, then remove and brush liberally with melted butter.

Fill the centers of the partially cooked squash with the stuffing mixture, dividing equally. Bake in a preheated 350F oven for about an hour or until squash is tender. Brush occasionally during the baking with a little melted butter to keep squash moist.

Vegetarian Breakfast "Sausage"
Yield: 2 Servings
I believe this is from WW2 when rationing was in place

Ingredients

      1 c  uncooked oatmeal
      3    egg whites -or-
      2    egg-equivalent of egg
           -substitute
      1 ts ground sage
      1 ts ground fennel
      1 ds ground rosemary
      1 ds parsley
      1 ds dill
      1    salt and black pepper to
           -taste

Instructions
Mix all ingredients well and form into four patties. Brown in a non-stick
skillet (this has a tendency to stick, so you might want to use a *light*
spray of non-stick cooking spray). To the skillet add 3 cups of vegetable
stock, or 3 cups of water mixed with a veggie boullion cube. Bring to a
boil, cover, reduce heat, and simmer for 20 minutes. Remove patties from
liquid, and re-brown before serving (they should be very dark brown and a
little crispy on the outside). The leftover liquid can be thickened with a
little flour to make a nice gravy to pour over the "sausage". The trick to
this recipe is to make the patties properly. If you pack them too tightly,
the middles will become glutinous; if they are not packed tightly enough
they will fall apart. Doublingthe recipe works well. If you're not going to
use the patties right away, do not re-brown after boiling; save the
re-browning for just before serving. They will keep several days in the
refrigerator.

Ahh, lovely recipes. Thank you.

I think about you every time I look at my marigolds, as they are sisters to your marigolds.

Got lotsa seeds, too, if anyone is interested in the ABabe and Opsa sibling seeds.

Oops- off topic! Will post in gardening. (Unless you eat marigolds- in that case I got this from the Edible Flowers (http://gardening.about.com/od/vegetablepatch/a/EdibleFlowers.htm) website:
"Gem Marigolds (Tagetes tenuifolia): 'Lemon Gem' and 'Tangerine Gem' Marigolds are the only edible marigolds. As their names suggest, they have a citrus flavor, even though you won't smell a citrus scent. Pull off the petals and break off and remove the bitter portion that comes to a right angle.")

Hut-ho... this (http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/tre52m6ur-us-red-death/) is gonna piss some people off!
:mrgreen:

Verrrry nice.

So what
like McDonalds is like
bad for us or sumpin?
and weenies- they cheap ones wif red food colorin in 'em?

Gack-Gack-Gack

Nah, the cheap ones is sawdust. Vegan all the way, baybay!  ;)

sawdust-- Oh like in "The Jungle" (Upton Sinclair)-- yeah I can see that.

Ooops- I originally wrote "sawduct"! That'll be one for the word definition game.

Does anyone have a reliable recipe for Burmese tofu (chick-pea flour tofu)?

I'm having trouble tracking down one that doesn't have FAIL comments. ;)

Actually I had never heard of chick-pea tofu before if you find a good recipe elsewhere pleas post it, it seems interesting!

:)

I'm winging it, but I'll let you know how it works! :D

The closest Burmese restaurant I can find is in Saskatoon, so no field trips to see what I'm aiming for.

I've never had it, but it sounds fantastic! I love chick peas. And tofu!

Did you check out this recipe (http://www.netcooks.com/recipes/Salads/Burmese-Style.Tofu.html)?

Ayuh, that one seemed WAY too complicated, though.

I ended up with a reasonable product by winging it; no idea if it's remotely authentic, but it's similar in texture to a firm tofu.

I started with 1.5 cups of chick pea flour, a teaspoon of turmeric, added 2 or 3 cups of water (to over-saturate; amount isn't critical), beat it with a whisk to get the lumps out, and let it sit in a (3.5 cup) measuring cup to settle.  I soaked it around 24 hours total, occasionally decanting the free liquid from the top, adding fresh water, and stirring.  I figured this would help leach out any bitter constituents that one sometimes gets with beans (there was quite a bit of foam to start with).  A tall, narrow container with a pouring lip will help here.

_{Note that measurements are completely irrelevant, provided you've got an excess of water and the solids can settle out of the liquid; adjust depending on the size of the pan you will be setting it in.}

About an hour before cooking I gave it one final decant, rinse and stir (probably did 4 or 5 total decants over the entire process?), let it settle, poured off most of the free liquid, and dumped the remaining sludge into a pot. None of that mucking around with filters or retaining liquid. 

I brought it slowly to boil on medium heat, stirring with a whisk. Once it got close to boiling it started to thicken, so I kept heating and stirring for 3 - 5 minutes to make sure the starches were cooked out.  The texture was similar to thick frosting (like store-bought slab cakes).  I poured it into a lightly oiled 9 x 9 glass pan and stuck it outside in a cooler to set (fridge will work fine, but there's more room on my balcony).

I checked it after a couple of hours and it had hardened up and also shrunk slightly so that it was free from the pan.  The finished cake was a little more than an inch thick, and sliced nicely. The taste wasn't awe-inspiring, but that's not the point.  I may be tempted to muck with the seasoning on future batches depending what it's going to be used for; I threw the turmeric in based on one recipe I saw.

I'll be eating it over the next couple of days, if I can decide what to use it for.  I suppose it might work as a straight-up tofu substitute, but I might see what else it plays nice with.  Given that I can get cheap chick-pea flour here, this stuff is even cheaper than tofu as a protein staple.

Christie has requested a less-firm batch for hotpots on the next trial run, which should be no sweat if one adds more liquid during the cooking-out. I think the critical step is to keep cooking it past the point of initial thickening to allow the starches (& probably proteins) to gelatinize before they set.


:idea:

Hmm....  just occurred to me that this or a similar mix might be a good secret binding agent for veggie burgers or unmeat balls - add some of the hot mix to the remaining ingredients after blending.  One could press the mix into pans, then cut it out with a cookie cutter, or let it cool slightly and hand-mold the patties / balls. Interesting.....

Alternatively, the thick version I've described above could be poured into greased moulds and made in any shape desired. Add a little veggie-based colour (beet powder, more turmeric, tomato powder, spinach powder), and you could do some pretty funky stuff.

Sounds like truly a labor of love.

Is it sort of like falafel, only not fried?

Not like falafel at all...  more like a slightly grainy tofu in texture, quite homogeneous (and reputedly, it's also good fried).   Actually less work than I managed to describe above, although it takes some soak time.  I'll try summarize in a less rambling manner:

• Mix 1 - 2 cups of chick pea flour with an excess of water (2 - 3 cups) in a measuring cup or similar container. Add 1 tsp turmeric for colour if desired.
• Let stand at room temperature for 24 hours; periodically pour off free liquid at the top as the solids settle to the bottom, adding fresh water and stirring each time.
• After 24 hours, pour off any free liquids and place the remaining slurry in a saucepan.
• Heat on medium until the mixture starts to boil and thicken while stirring; turn to low heat and continue to stir for 3 - 5 minutes.
• Pour the mixture into a greased cake pan and chill.
• Slice when firm.

I imagine that it could be done in less than 24 hours, but the extra decanting time probably reduces bitterness.


Besides...  most of my cooking is a labour or love.  :D

Yum!

Do you serve it like cheese- or saute it and serve it like a main course?

Aw, now I'm hungry...

Both - Christie & I were throwing ideas around and she twigged on the fact that the taste and texture are very similar to paneer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paneer) and would make a very good substitute in Indian recipes.  Probably not as good as a sliced raw cheese substitute, although with some work on the flavouring before cooking, it may be able to get there.

Parallel to this, we both figured it'd be very good curried - I'm going to try curry up the actual product by adding spices during the cook-out next time.

I tried frying it plain with a moderate amount of oil in a non-stick pan last night, until it browned slightly on the outside. It's good...  and completely unexpectedly, IT TASTES LIKE FRICKIN' HOTDOGS!  :o  (& texture is similar). I will probably explicitly try to use it to make veggie dogs, adding a little beet powder to pink it up, and either putting liquid smoke in the mix or actually smoking the finished product; I suspect it'd benefit from a little fat as well (high-quality palm oil, perhaps).  _{I could probably get a very delicious flexitarian product if I used bacon fat.}  :devil2:

Based on the frying experiment, I sliced some thin and am drying it to attempt chip-making (crisps).

For dinner last night, I gave it a tried and true tofu treatment; coated it in cornstarch, dipped it in egg (with grated garlic and sliced scallions) and pan-fried it.  It was good. And didn't taste like hotdogs. ;)


I also think this stuff, in combination with a soft / medium tofu, would make a killer egg substitute in a tofu scramble (not a usual item of consumption for me).  If one really wanted to up the egg factor, adding some asafoetida (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asafoetida) during the cook-out would pretty much match the taste of an egg.


IOW, it's a vegetarian killer app_(etizer)!

While not soon, I can see myself eating less beef and then less chicken to the point of practical vegetarianism, but I cannot see myself without eating eggs and -on top of everything else- cheese. I'll get a bloody cow if necessary but I need my cheese.

Perhaps that's why I don't get too close to tofu...

I'll get a bloody cow if necessary but I need my cheese. Zono


I am in full agreement with this statement. I would just add bacon to the list...

I eat cheese and eggs, which makes me an ovo-lacto-vegetarian. I also will eat seafood, which we decided here makes me also a pisce-vegetarian. So if you wanna eat bacon, you could be a porci-vegetarian?!

Tofu is not easy to get to love if you've had bad tofu. But once you have good tofu, you can really crave it. Like er... well, any thing else.  :blush:

Ayuh, tofu is much-maligned due to people trying to use it as a meat substitute, which it does poorly because it doesn't have the taste or texture of meat*.  It's very nice when it's just being tofu and used in traditional or fusion recipes.

The stuff has very little flavour, so paired with western cooking techniques that add very little flavour, it's bland and chalky.



_{*ok, so I've suggested using this chickpea tofu as a hot dog substitute, but for that it only has to be a reasonable facsimile of the the bits you wouldn't want to eat anyways (i.e. it doesn't matter if it tastes like arse, that's the point!).  Tofu scramble tips for those who swear by 'em; it's been years since I tried one but I swear at 'em as I'm a marginal fan of eggs to start with. Paneer is a different story, as it's not very cheesy for a cheese to start with (doesn't melt).}

What people tend to forget is that there is many different types of tofu.

I can't stand the really white kind, the one that looks and taste just like hard boiled egg-whites...
If it's a little courser it's fine though and Mapo tofu (not a vegetarian dish) is one of my all-time favourites!
The dried yellow kind of tofu that comes in flaky sticks is the one I like best with soups and vegetables when cooked its texture is still chewy and firm (unless you over cook it of  ;) cause).

That bean-curd stick stuff?  It's good, like you say it's great in soups and hotpots.  I've tasted tofu jerky based on that stuff that was also pretty tasty, albeit no match for dried dead animal matter ;).

Quote from: Agujjim on February 10, 2010, 03:51:34 PM
Ayuh, tofu is much-maligned due to people trying to use it as a meat substitute, which it does poorly because it doesn't have the taste or texture of meat*.  It's very nice when it's just being tofu and used in traditional or fusion recipes.

Texture-wise, there are several variants of tofu that have a greatly different texture from the greyish-white blocks we are probably most aquainted with here in the western hemisphere. Deep-fried tofu has a much stringier and chewier texture, for example, not to mention frozen and dried tofu. I've seen some all-vegetarian mapo dofu recipes that use deep-fried and ordinary tofu in order to get an interesting contrast of textures.

Speaking of fake meat my wife and I found a way to make black eye white bean patties these past days. She found a recipe for buñuelos (which back home are usually made with corn flour and grated cheese) that used eggs and no cheese and the beans. After some experimentation trying to fry them we added cheese but more importantly we grilled the mass in a pan before frying them. The result is something that looks like breaded meat and has good flavor. The recipe would be like this:

After leaving the beans in water for at least 24 hours and washing them mill the beans with a cup of water. Add eggs (for a pound of beans we used 3 eggs), a cup of corn flour and a pound of grated cheese (we use standard mozzarella). Add a bit of salt and sugar for flavor.

Once you have an uniform mass, grill it in a pan to cook it then take the grilled patties and fry them (we used olive oil but you can use any kind).

Quote from: Lindorm on February 13, 2010, 10:05:57 AM
Texture-wise, there are several variants of tofu that have a greatly different texture from the greyish-white blocks we are probably most aquainted with here in the western hemisphere. Deep-fried tofu has a much stringier and chewier texture, for example, not to mention frozen and dried tofu. I've seen some all-vegetarian mapo dofu recipes that use deep-fried and ordinary tofu in order to get an interesting contrast of textures.

Ayuh, even tofu-haters usually like fried tofu, especially tofu puffs (which are more oil and air than tofu ;)).  I'm a big fan of soft tofu in soups and hotpots - I had soon dubu chige for dinner tonight (soft tofu in a slightly spicy broth with egg, kimchi and seafood; the place I usually get it uses clams and pork). 

I have one vegetarian friend who has a horror of tofu (mostly texture); I'll have to get her to try some of the other variations.

Quote from: Agujjim on February 14, 2010, 04:58:14 AM


Ayuh, even tofu-haters usually like fried tofu, especially tofu puffs (which are more oil and air than tofu ;)). 

Yup. I am not really a fan of them after an encounter at a cheap sushi place where they were of the "cold, rancid, grease-blob-variety". Sort of put me off from most sorts of fried tofu from then on...

Quote from: Agujjim on February 14, 2010, 04:58:14 AM
I'm a big fan of soft tofu in soups and hotpots - I had soon dubu chige for dinner tonight (soft tofu in a slightly spicy broth with egg, kimchi and seafood; the place I usually get it uses clams and pork). 

Sounds really yummy! You would'nt happen to have a recipe on hand?

Quote from: Agujjim on February 14, 2010, 04:58:14 AM
I have one vegetarian friend who has a horror of tofu (mostly texture); I'll have to get her to try some of the other variations.

There are some fermented tofus than have really interesting and unusual textures and mouth-feels, but they are perhaps not suitable in this case... :D

Quote from: Lindorm on February 14, 2010, 01:15:20 PM
Yup. I am not really a fan of them after an encounter at a cheap sushi place where they were of the "cold, rancid, grease-blob-variety". Sort of put me off from most sorts of fried tofu from then on...

Inari sushi, maybe?  The Japanese make them too sweet and they are usually canned.  Korean yubu chopab is better IMHO. I'm talking more about the ones you float in a hotpot.



Soon Dubu Chige...  this recipe looked good, although I haven't made it myself:
http://www.trifood.com/soondooboochigae.html

Hey Zone- those bean-burgers sound great! By "milling", do you mean grinding? Or do you use a blender?

Actually we used a blender but I feel that grinding them might have been a better choice (the blender struggled with it and we had to add more water that I would've liked).

Tried a batch of Burmese tofu with black lentil flour.  The thing spontaneously fermented on the counter, but I cooked it up anyways (smelled fine at that point). It thickened up nicely, but the taste and smell weren't so hot (from the lentil flour itself, I think).  I added a few things to try cover it up (fish sauce, soy sauce, hot pepper sauce, various vinaigres) and let it set; I haven't tried it yet but have my doubts about edibility.

I strongly suspect I've created a vegetarian substitute for liver. :P

Quote from: Agujjim on February 18, 2010, 06:28:42 PM
I strongly suspect I've created a vegetarian substitute for liver. :P

:ROFL:

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

I do not need the recipe for that! :P
;)

Quote from: Agujjim on February 18, 2010, 06:28:42 PM
Tried a batch of Burmese tofu with black lentil flour.  The thing spontaneously fermented on the counter, but I cooked it up anyways (smelled fine at that point). It thickened up nicely, but the taste and smell weren't so hot (from the lentil flour itself, I think).  I added a few things to try cover it up (fish sauce, soy sauce, hot pepper sauce, various vinaigres) and let it set; I haven't tried it yet but have my doubts about edibility.

I strongly suspect I've created a vegetarian substitute for liver. :P

You know, there are those who would have stopped at the "spontaneously fermented" point. Glad you are made out of sterner stuff!

I mananged to concoct something for dinner the other day that actually made me go "Jumpin' Jehosephat, what in tarnation have I done?" -so Darlica was promptly dispatched to hunt and kill a few wilde take-away sushi beasts, which she thankfully did.  :)

Ayuh, there's still one dinner that Dad made when I was very small that's referred to as "Kung Fu Stew" (Kraft dinner, peas, ketchup and baby clams :puke:) that did not get eaten whatsoever.  We went for a walk instead, and maybe a bowl of cereal instead.


I'd read some recipes (the normal chickpea version) that involved fermentation, so I wasn't scared.  Considering some of our staple foods (kimchi, doenjang) are spontaneously fermented, I don't have much of a horror of microorganisms sharing my feast.  I don't think it was the fermentation that threw the recipe off, just the original material and especially the fact it wouldn't 'wash' like the chick pea flour did.  I will start another chick-pea batch today.


-------


Also picked up some wheat gluten and am going to try dabbling in seitan. Total deja-vu. ;)  :devil2: ;)

*double-post*

Update on the bu-fu:  Ran another batch using chick pea flour, but added a mix of curry-ish* spices and a good pinch of salt during the cook-out. Finished product was quite tasty on its own, delightful pan-fried.  I made a modified version of palak paneer (chard instead of spinach, bu-fu instead of paneer) and it was quite nice _{and vegan, but don't tell anyone!}

This is going to be a staple food chez moi, I think - it's cheap, requires very little hands-on time (besides the lengthy soak-out) and looks to be useful for a lot of things that soy tofu is not particularly good at.


_{*cumin, coriander, cardamom, dried ginger, dried garlic, probably turmeric, maybe fennel, possibly cinnamon and cloves - I don't keep track ;)}

That sounds delicious. I like those spices.

I have lots of fun with my mortar and pestle - probably my favourite piece of kitchenware.

I heartily recommend getting your hands on some chick pea flour and giving this a try. I'm definitely going to try making veggie burgers using this as a binder and base in the near future.

!VEGGIE LUNCH HELP NEEDED!

Field season is starting again and it looks like I'll be doing some extended time away from home soon.  Problem is, I've kind of lost my taste for land-meat lately and want to keep eating mostly veggie food. I think I can muddle through dinners for the most part (will be trying microwave bu-fu), but I could use some pointers for veggie lunches. Hummus tends to get me about halfway through, and I suppose some bean-and-rice wraps will be a good option (& semi-reasonable to cook in the field, if I use canned beans and bring the rice cooker, plus some spices) - any other ideas?  Cheese is a no-go for the most part, due to price*, saturated fat content and general dislike. I'm also opposed to processed faux-meat products; I'd rather eat roast chicken than a veggie chicken nugget.   I will be in and around the pickup truck for the most part on this round, so I can eat sit-down foods, but it's hard to get my usual lentil-based lunch staples up to proper heat on the truck defrost, so the focus is on cold foods.  On many jobs, time is limited and I need easy-to-eat food that can be jammed down the gullet throughout the day.

*blame the bloody Canadian Dairy Cartel gangsters.

-------------------------------------------------------

Bu-Fu Update:

I've successfully attempted a soft-tofu version of bu-fu, using a ratio of 1 parts soaked 'sludge' to 2 parts of water and the same cook-out method.  The result is somewhere between a soft and medium tofu, good for soups and the like (although we've been eating it plain with kimchi).  I'd anticipate that one could go even further to 1 parts sludge to 3 parts water, but haven't tried this yet.

I've been using a larger soaking container (2-litre measuring cup) and doing about 2 cups of chickpea flour at a time; I've also moved the soak to the fridge so that it's less likely to start fermenting. The larger container allows a larger volume of rinse water and therefore less decants (still do about 2 - 3).  After soaking and decanting, I've been draining off the excess water and using the soaked sludge as needed; it seems to keep for a few days and if it's the first thing you cook, generally chills and firms fast enough to prepare as needed. The finished product tends to sweat water a little, so fresh preparation may be an advantage.

As noted above, I'm going to trying to cook this in the microwave to see if it's field-portable, as the raw materials and equipment are easy to pack.  The tricky bit will be keeping it from getting lumpy, so I expect to be cooking, stopping, stirring, cooking, stopping, stirring....

Might get around to trying to use this stuff as a binder for veggie patties tonight - I've got some instant refried black beans (i.e. dried black bean flakes) that I will mix in for texture, colour and flavour, plus onions, garlic and spices.  I've got an inkling that incorporating seitan into the mix will get it all the way there in terms of texture and mouthfeel, but haven't got around to making that stuff yet.

Have you seen this idea?

How to cook food with your car's engine block (http://www.wikihow.com/Cook-Food-on-Your-Car%27s-Engine)

Basically, you wrap up the item(s) to be roasted into extra-heavy duty aluminum foil, find a suitable spot on your engine block, and drive.   Obviously, experiments are in order, but the how2 talks about where in the engine compartment is suitable.

I love this bit o'wisdom from the how2:

"... or you can use wire to tie the food down. Use common sense when securing the food. Avoid placing it near moving parts, and don't strain hoses by trying to force the package under them. If you're going to use wire, use baling wire rather than trying to use the wires that are already in your engine compartment."  (emphasis mine)

Ya think?

:D

Given my environmental background, I'm a little too paranoid to consume anything that's been under the hood.  ;) Kind of negates eating organic food*, eh?  I'm exposed to enough crap during a field day and even eat in the field with disposable gloves on to minimize cross-contamination.  One might wonder about the freshness of the defrost air when parked, but inhalation will be the primary route of concern there, IMHO.

_{*where economically feasible, I pick my battles and just avoid what isn't affordable or relatively low-impact when grown conventionally.}

If there wasn't an ignition hazard, I'd just pack my Cobb everywhere and bbq for lunch. 

"What do you mean it's unsafe?  That's the designated smoking area; who says you have to smoke tobacco and not salmon?"  ;D

Of course, a charcoal grill is mostly applicable to meat until I get some decent veggie dogs & burgs worked out.

Do you like/can eat eggs? Those are usually easy to manage and make and if you are moving a rice cooker already...

Ayuh, I forgot about eggs - I don't mind hardboiled eggs, and they are good for fat and protein.  I used to eat them often when I was on my weight-gain campaign (it's easy to find pre-peeled hb eggs in a 2-pack for about a buck). Hmm... do you think one could actually cook the eggs in with the rice?  Better to pre-cook 'em, of course, and I'd want them to be well rinsed first, but it shouldn't hurt the rice. They'd certainly be possible alone in the rice cooker. Thanks for the suggestion!

Not an egg sandwich fan, but whole eggs are easy to eat, especially if peeled the night before.

I don't have any real health or ethics-based diet restrictions, other than large amounts of dairy not agreeing with me.

I have never placed a raw egg on the rice cooker while doing the rice itself but it shouldn't be too different from cooking it on the already made rice, it should give a different zest to it. If you feel adventurous try it and let us know (I might do it my self when the one I did yesterday is eaten today).

In normal circumstances you would drop raw eggs on a pan with already cooked rice and stir. You can add frozen veggies or some form of animal protein to the mix, and if you have the time, make it in a wok and do it fried!
:D

Ah, you're talking about cracking the egg first. My mistake - I'm talking about boiling whole eggs for lunches. Dinners aren't a problem, it's the lunches when I'm away from the hotel.  The rice cooker (stand-alone unit) is a little much for the truck (although I do have a 12-volt kettle that could probably boil eggs). I've been using instant rice lately instead of lugging the cooker, but it's a handy unit to haul when hunkered down for a week in one place.

I'm generally limited to a microwave in most hotels, so can't fry anything. Need to get that wok pan for my Cobb, then I could cook whatever I wanted on the truck's tailgate in the summer.

You could make the rice in the evening/morning and have it for lunch, the only thing would be heating it (unless you like cold risotto or cold pasta salads), or placing it hot in a thermos container (we did that with our son's lunch for a while and the food was still warm at lunch time), there are some with a metallic liner and you place boiling water in the container for a minute or two, dump the water, place the hot food and close.

Cheese sandwiches are an alternative but that depends on how expensive sliced/cream cheese is where you are, I'm sure basic mozzarella sliced can't be that expensive (edit, I just read some very enlightening info on dairy prices up north  :(). I would put some prosciutto (without explicit nitrates) but that depends on how those suit your body.

With prosciutto, it's the salt that concerns me - field food involves a certain amount of processed food, and that means excess sodium, so have to keep it cut down anywhere I can. Many cheeses are also salty.

Heating's the issue, what I'm really looking for is food that can be:
a) prepared from fresh or minimally-processed ingredients 
b) eaten cold 
c) eaten easily (no fork required)
d) isn't meat
e) is cheap

Boiled eggs fit that bill nicely, so does hummus & pita or veggies, but there's not much else I can think of in terms of entrees off the top of my head.  I may have to pick up a bag of frozen falafel (fatty and salty, but locally made and veggie) to use in pita wraps, instead of the standard roast chicken.

Cheese? Expensive here, I don't like it, and not particularly healthful. ;)

How about regular bread? Pita bread won't fill you calorie bill (and IIRC you are losing weight) so a good loaf of bakery bread (not bag sliced) should do wonders, is filling and usually tasty.

And regretfully unavailable, especially in small towns. To be picky, I insist on 100% whole grain bread, too - this is literally impossible because virtually all supermarket bakery "whole wheat" bread contains a goodly dose of white flour, these days.  I know one good indie bread bakery in Calgary (and rumours of a few others) but even they do not make much in the way of 100% whole wheat.  Comment elsewhere on butter consumption may give you an idea on how much loaf bread I eat.

_{picky-picky; I burned out on sliced-bread sandwiches around Grade 5.  Peanut butter sammiches would otherwise be a possibility. Protein remains the critical nutrient here.}

Pitas aren't bad calorie-wise, gram for gram (plus very high in protein), and virtually free of strange ingredients.  I'd go for tortillas, but they are inevitably made with hydrogenated vegetable oils here. I used to eat lots of pitas in my weight-gain days, although admittedly I'd eat a whole roast chicken for lunch to accompany them (plus a few eggs, a protein drink, and then a 10 oz. steak for dinner - any clues why I dropped that eating program?). *burp*  Even now, I will eat 3 or 4 medium pitas (or 2 large ones) minimum per lunch-day.

The hummus does a great job of making up for the low-cal pitas, as it's full of sesame paste and in some cases canola oil. Wish the sodium was a bit lower, but I watch that closely with the remainder of my lunch items to compensate.


My biggest lunch issue is that I really don't get much of a thrill from bagged lunch foods (or most breakfast foods, for that matter) and am happiest eating hot dinner-type for every meal. Not a problem in the office, much more difficult when you can't cook on a regular basis.


Damned orthorexia.....  ::)

Actually I'm not that convinced about the whole grain thing, apart from fiber it's basically the same thing and I am yet to see any real study (double blinded, statistically significant) making a clear distinction. It does taste different, and the fiber content might help (there are some conflicting studies on the subject) but calorie and health wise I don't see a reason to put one clearly above the other.

You may know more on the subject than me though.  :readbook:

Just the extra fiber alone is worth it to me.

When I was macrobiotic I used to make a big pot of brown rice once a week, and just eat it cold the rest of the week. Sometimes I'd throw in different veggies to keep it interesting. I'd also add things to it daily, such as seasonings, parmesan, soy sauce, Worcestershire sauce, even hot sauce! (Likely this added a lot of sodium in some cases, too.)

Side note:

I just tried using a raw egg on the rice cooker (with the rice obviously), it messes up the cooking time and I had to put the pot on the stove to finish cooking the rice, although it tasted quite good once it was done.

Fibre is a great thing all on it's own, and keeps me feeling like a regular guy. ;)

Calorie-wise, wheat bran is indigestible and can actually absorb fats (so the calories on the label might actually be overstated slightly, AFAIK the US controls for this better than some places). Glycemic index (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycemic_index) is the key term here - refined starches like white rice and white flour are very efficiently broken down into glucose by the enzymes in your saliva and from your pancreas, to the point where it's absorbed into your blood almost as fast as if you ate pure sugar (glucose or dextrose; sucrose actually has a lower GI than white flour and is therefore probably 'healthier').  This means your body needs to crank up the insulin to deal with the sudden sugar rush. Fibre slows down the rate at which your stomach releases food to the intestines, and therefore provides more of a time-release effect (which probably explains why 4 tablespoons of oats, cooked into oatmeal for breakfast holds me until lunch).  The fibre also makes it harder for your body to get at the starches, with the same effect.

If you are eating high-fibre foods with your white grains, it's less of an issue.  Re: rice, we cut in about 30% brown rice or other whole grains, which is still light and tasty but keeps some fibre present (plus it's traditional Korean-style cooking).  I can't take straight brown rice, except basmati. Short-grain brown is like a brick on its own.

A little kimchi on the side is plenty of seasoning for my rice, although the sodium content is significant there, too.  I'm not concerned about salt at home, only when I'm in the field - there's WAY too much hidden sodium in processed food, and Canada is worse than most countries for it. If I don't watch labels I can eat 2 or 3 times the RDI without knowing it.


Found some pickled seafood in a supermarket - haven't tried it yet but it looked interesting (mostly calamari).  Not as high in sodium as you might think, and although it's high in fat, that's because it's packed partly in canola oil, which you wouldn't actually be consuming too much of.  Should keep reasonably well, and go nice with pita. 

Have you tried parboiled rice? For what I read the GI is actually lower than brown rice.

Also apparently ice cream has a relatively low GI...  ;) :mrgreen:

I've discovered that one can cook hard-'boiled' eggs in a hotel coffeemaker, if one is patient. ;)

Aggie, I heartily sympathize with your packed food problems. I sometimes have quite similar problems myself, when I am away on a long duty -perhaps even one that stretches over three days. While you could of course eat out the whole time, that would be a expensive option, not to mention the fact that there simply are no restaurants, fast food joints or anything similar in some of the places we go to, nevermind the times we have our "rest periods" -not to mention the fact that when things go up the wall, you might end up sitting out in the woods for eight hours. And then you have the whole taste and health issue complex... Food for me should aslo preferrably be reasonably light and compact, since my backpack is full enough as it is with work-related junk.

I try to bring packed lunches/dinners/whatever with me, as far as practicable. We do have a hotplate in the cab of our locos, some are also fitted with microvawes, and there is a small fridge that usually works. Still, it usually means food that has to sit in a backpack for a period to quite-a-while. Some of it also has to be possible to eat whilst driving.

I eat quite a bit of salads, usually with some olives, capers, pickled chili peppers etc thrown in. That way, I usually only season them with a sprinkle of dry spices, such as pepper or Creole Seasoning, which keeps them from going mushy as they would if I pured on a dressing. To this, I usually add some charcuterie that's been cured or smoked, so it will keep for a while (ham, cured sausage etc), or sturdy cheese or a tin of tuna that I open at the time of eating. Another standby are "diet smoothies" -you know, those low-calorie drinks often used for dieting, either pre-mixed or in the form of a powder you mix with water and shake. They are hardly food, but they don't need refrigerating and they usually contain bulking agents that help you feel sated. This also helps keeping my girth in check -you don't burn a lot of calories if you are just sitting in a cab and moving a few handles back and forth.

Especially during the cold season, I bring a small camping pot, some pre-made soup and some frozen wok vegetables along, and cook soup on the cab hotplate. It gets a bit more filling and nutritious with the veggies, and if I add some herbs and other stuff to the veggies, it can get somewhat tasty, too. An extra bonus is that the frozen veggies act as a ice block, keeping other stuff cool. There are some hotplate virtuosos out there in the cabs who cook tons of stuff on the hotplates -bangers and mash, pancakes and whatnot. Some drivers have even been known to lug around a waffle iron and a plastic bottle full of waffle batter, using a 230V-outlet in the cab and making waffles as they go along.

I also bring a bag with mixed nuts and dried fruits to use as an energy booster when needed. Fruit is also a good standby, since it keeps reasonably well, is healthy and tastes good. It is a bit heavy, though.

I have been thinking about doing some experimentation and do a bit of cooking directly on the diesel motor  -making some sort of meat en papillote, for example, wrapping it very well in tinfoil and placing it on some suitably hot engine part to let it cook. We'll see what happens...

Thanks for the tips!  Currently working 12-to-15 hour night shifts, with lots of sit time, going on 6 days now.  Haven't had much of an appetite due to the shift-lag.  Did haul the Cobb out and bbq on the tailgate yesterday afternoon (night? after work, anyways, it was sunny) for a treat.  Generally bbq on site is a no-go, what with the explosive atmospheres.

I've fallen back to the old standby of roast chicken, hummous and pita, with some bbq pork leftovers from yesterday.  Realized I might have been taking the orthorexia a bit overboard due to life stress and needed to quit sticking as insistently to veggie food for now (although I suspect I'm still losing weight anyways ::)).

Concur with dried fruit and nuts, especially for busy days - quick energy and good for you.  I have been getting in the habit of packing a bar of very dark chocolate as well; I can ration it easily whereas I gobble milk chocolate like Augustus Gloop if it's in reach (therefore I rarely buy it).

:EasterBunnyEat:

LOL
I just have a very hard time imagining you going Augustus Gloop... Sorry...  ;D


Character and self restraint are good, in moderation like everything else.  ;)

Tailgate BBQ sounds good, how did you treat the pork before roasting it?
(Yes I know this is a veggi thread but please let it slip under alt-food fun)

Today's issue of the free "newspaper" (yeah, right  ::) ) Metro had a feature on a young student who had developed some interesting alt-cooking / student ghetto cooking techniques. Among her ouvre was cooking rice and frying bacon on the hotplate of a coffee machine and baking bread with a hair strightener.

Aggie, do you have a 12V cigarette lighter-adapter for your hair straightener?  ;)

Quote from: Darlica on March 23, 2010, 02:58:01 PM
I just have a very hard time imagining you going Augustus Gloop... Sorry...  ;D

OK, not for chocolate, but I'm a wolf - eat lean when pickings are slim, gorge when there's a fresh kill. I can literally sit down and eat a savoury meal for 2 hours or more at a leisurely pace, take an intermission and go back for more. When we in Korea for the first time, we were going to eat a 'half table' (37 different dishes between 2 ppl - if we had 4 we'd have got the 'full table') but had eaten lunch recently, so I just wandered into the nearest pub and drank a glass of beer (ok, it was a 1 litre mug) to get my appetite back.  :mrgreen:

Did the pork with a custom spice rub of mine (mostly coriander, pepper, coarse salt, crushed dried garlic, smoked dried chilies, thyme and maybe a few other things).  Grilled some tomatoes, onion and pineapple at the same time to go with the pork, and roasted some baby potatoes in the base of the Cobb.

My hair is straight enough as it is.  I do have a 12-volt kettle that I could probably boil eggs to order with.  It's got a rack for heating up cans of soup by partial immersion.

I stand corrected... :o ;D


That spice rub sound delicious! Do you mind if I take notes? :)

No, please use it - I keep a pepper-grinder full of whole pepper and coriander around especially in summer, as it goes good with nearly everything; this spice blend was an extension of that concept, targeted mostly for steak but good on nearly anything grilled.  I even made some up for Christmas gifts this year.

Note that garlic powder will work if necessary, but I buy dried sliced garlic and crack it to a fairly coarse consistency (similar to coarse salt) for the mix.  The chilies are home-smoked and dried, but if available a dried chipotle would be just fine.

Thread resurrection: rise, Rise! Rise from the depths of yonder years!  :cthulhu:
---
Slowly but surely I'm turning to the dark (light?) side, and I'm avoiding animal flesh as much as a I can. I still eat eggs, milk, and of course, cheese, but I'm trying to avoid chicken, beef, pork and fish.

It doesn't mean I'm always successful (quiche Lorraine anyone?) but all things considered I'm happily surprised that I can do it.

I have been moving philosophically in this direction for a while but reading the Better Angels of our Nature I found myself inconsistent by being carnivorous. Suddenly arguments about suffering vs intelligence, and the number of animals killed to reach the same amount of protein (as in how many chickens vs one cow) touched a fiber.

This doesn't mean I'll apply for peta membership soon, but I definitively see things much differently now.

Join us.... JJJJOOOOIIIIINNN UUUUUSSSS! Mwahahaha!  :-*

I am glad to hear that someone else has taken the semi-plunge, as it were. I think the only way to go about it sanely is they way you have done it, Zone my friend. That is to say- you're not going all holier-than-thou with it, which I think is exactly the worst way. You're doing what you can live with, and not being too spastic if you stray a little. Ya gotta live.

I'm going to have to read this Better Angels of our Nature book, now.

Now I just can hope the Dutch guys that made a burger from muscle stem cells* figure a way to make volume in a reasonably economical way so that I can keep cooking beef without killing cows....

*I know it will take decades but I for one welcome the development.

Step away from the PINK SLIME.....!

Pink Slime is a totally different thing, it's what is reclaimed from the meat processing and highly treated to remove bacterial contamination.

I did know that. I was just sayin'...

The idea of eating beef cultivated in a vat is shocking for many people, personally I find it ironic and hypocritical considering what happens to the animals. I'm pragmatic enough to consider cultivated beef (or chicken, or pork, or fish) as a better alternative to kill animals.

If killing animals is natural I rather be unnatural, at any rate.

And few talk about the feelings of the veggies we eat as an alternative to meat.

Carrots just don't scream as loud as piggies do.

I've read about experiments in which two plants of the same species are separated and one of them is burned in a different room while the other one is measured and it has been claimed that the second plant does have a response. IIRC the experiments haven't been fully vetted (I believe they even did it in Mythbusters once and they got results in one iteration and none in the other [ie non repeatable]).

It's hard to tell if plants feel something in a sense that relates to what we feel, considering that they don't have the nervous infrastructure.

As for foods, fruits are intended to be eaten in many cases, many grains naturally wither after flowering, and tubers and other plants can continue with just a fraction of the original plant.

Add to that the plants that require of extreme events -like fire- to reproduce effectively.

Some plants can communicate and send out distress 'calls' in the shape of gaseous emanations. When a plant receives the signal, it begins to produce poison, in some cases within minutes. Many herbivores know that and 'work' against the wind. Would they go downwind, they'd soon find their targets inedible.

That is btw also the reason for 'a single rotten apple spoils the whole barrel' because the rotting process sends a similar signal to start it in the other fruits too.

Rotten rotting processes. My plants scream at me a lot.

Everything dies (per the Bhagavad Gita, it's already dead).  I'm not personally as concerned with the fact of death of animals for meat as the conditions under which they lived.  I'm also not afraid to face my meat and eat something that I've met.  Killing animals for food saddens me, but I also find it connects me to the reality of life.  Growing vegetables does the same thing. I find meat on styrofoam and disembodied plant parts on supermarket shelves weirder than actually taking care of business myself. Domestic plants and animals (on a species level) have actually been much more successful than many of their wild counterparts, despite the fact that we slaughter or consume the majority before they have the chance to reproduce.

I'm certainly not dis-encouraging vegetarianism (heck, I started this thread), and hope to go a little more veggie than I currently am this winter. I've found for myself that it's not a very healthy lifestyle to take up full time, though. I struggle to keep weight on, and tend to lose muscle mass (I'm already approaching zero body fat) if I don't eat meat, even if I'm carefully stacking up on alternatives. An honest relationship with food animals is therefore important.  My farmer friends have recently acquired two piggies that I'll be helping to feed with misshapen pears from my yard, and I'll more than likely be buying some meat from them once they are ready for slaughter.  I've met the pigs; they are beautiful creatures and don't deserve death, but one day it will come to them regardless of whether they are used for food or not. Right now, they have a large, natural area to root around in, and look like they are loving life.

I'm highly skeptical that vat meat (although nervous-system free) will be much better for the environment than factory farming.  The nutrients required for cell culture will likely need heavy processing.  I won't be surprised if they end up raising animals to slaughter for processing into nutrient feedstocks for vat meat. :P

It's really up to the individual what to eat or not to eat.

I have come to accept that animals may have the innate understanding that they are potential food for other beings. A Native American theory is that animals are more sophisticated than people in that they are so in tune with the universe that they are willing to give up life in order for other life to continue. Lovely idea.

I don't like to eat them, though, in part because they are physically so much like us. I distinctly do not like eating muscle and meat because I am muscle and meat. Their blood is just like mine. However, I do realize that I am pretty much a spaz and that many other humans do not mind those similarities a bit. And that's fine. Someone has to be weird, and it turns out it's me.

Quote from: Aggie on September 14, 2013, 05:51:52 AM
I'm not personally as concerned with the fact of death of animals for meat as the conditions under which they lived.  I'm also not afraid to face my meat and eat something that I've met.  Killing animals for food saddens me, but I also find it connects me to the reality of life.  Growing vegetables does the same thing. I find meat on styrofoam and disembodied plant parts on supermarket shelves weirder than actually taking care of business myself. Domestic plants and animals (on a species level) have actually been much more successful than many of their wild counterparts, despite the fact that we slaughter or consume the majority before they have the chance to reproduce.

The way I see things now is closer to necessity, that is, I don't need to eat animals to keep living, I'm not a hunter-gatherer needing to supplement the roots and nuts I collected, I don't have an iron deficiency (or propensity to it as my wife does) that will be better alleviated with animal tissue, in general terms, I don't have to eat flesh, therefore, if I know all the problems involved (factory farming, animal mistreatment/abuse/cruelty, ecological and resource management issues, etc) and I don't have a true need, why should I?

Yes, animal flesh is tasty, and under the right circumstances desirable, but at this point, those don't apply to me, plus the fact that I now feel much, much more the cruelty part of the equation, yes, a chicken is far less intelligent than my pet parrots, but it is as capable of suffering as them or myself, why would I want to be part of that?

Would I hunt if I were in the forest and had no access to other sources of food? Sure I would, but I'm not in the forest. Would I eat a deer if I accidentally kill it with a car? Absolutely, in fact I would almost feel that not doing so would be an incredible waste. Would I go to the forest to hunt the animal even if I will eat it afterwards having no need to do so? Absolutely not. 

I like to think it isn't a fundamentalist position, and considering that the overwhelming majority of people expects to eat animals I'm perfectly capable to indulge if no other easy options are at hand, but at this point, I will not seek doing so as much as I can.

*rumble*

I think that's a very sensible position, Zono.

One challenge I'm not sure I'm completely ready to undertake, but would like to, is to completely swear off factory-farmed meat for regular meals. (The relationship that I have with food is such that when someone else cooks for me, I don't refuse things that I otherwise would not eat myself.) Right now, I'm using it as a convenience crutch, especially because I'm regularly bringing food over to my buddy's parents' house (where the shop is) when I work late.  Also, we get a free meal at work, which I take up in some form or another; often, I'll bring my own ingredients in, but when I'm busy I'll just eat what's there. Excuses... :P

Quote from: Opsa on September 14, 2013, 06:52:36 PMI don't like to eat them, though, in part because they are physically so much like us. I distinctly do not like eating muscle and meat because I am muscle and meat. Their blood is just like mine. However, I do realize that I am pretty much a spaz and that many other humans do not mind those similarities a bit. And that's fine. Someone has to be weird, and it turns out it's me.

You're not weird, just a cultural minority. You wouldn't be in some parts of the world.

I was a major dinosaur nut when I was a little kid*, and saw my dad hunting when I was quite young, so I think I was steeped in the concept of predator/prey quite early. I remember meeting and feeding cows at my parent's friends house, and then eating them later with full disclosure.

^{*and therefore read enough on the subject to understand evolution at 6 years old or so}

I like Zono's thoughts, too.

No-one really needs to defend how or what they eat, except maybe someone like Hannibal the Cannibal.

Like Zono, I do not need to eat meat. I have absolutely no problem keeping weight on.

:soapbox:

People who do eat meat do not have to defend their position to me and I do not feel I have to defend mine to them. What difference does it make to others what I choose to consume? It is truly tedious to me to have people get all up in my grill trying to tell me why eating meat is natural and good. What is wrong with those people? It may be natural and good for them, but not for me. Do they really think they will change my mind? I've been ovo-lacto-pesce-veggie for nearly forty years and I have never pushed anyone's face in it, but I often have others question my choices and it is so annoying! I don't get it.

What can I tell them to make them back off?

Quote from: Opsa on September 15, 2013, 04:06:29 PM
What can I tell them to make them back off?

Become the leader of a powerful cult with direct access to all influential media. Then you can threaten them with public ostracism. ;)

Yeah! And then I'll punch 'em an' hit 'em and that'll learn them!  ;)

Quote from: Aggie on September 15, 2013, 06:23:44 AM
One challenge I'm not sure I'm completely ready to undertake, but would like to, is to completely swear off factory-farmed meat for regular meals.

Strictly speaking, you would have to farm it yourself to be 100% sure...
--
In reality the question is one of flexibility, that is, either you choose a strict restriction or not, and considering that we live and work with carnivorous beings, we choose to be flexible because a strict diet becomes an imposition on those around us.

They way I rationalize this is by choosing what I buy for myself carefully. Unless you want to impose on those around you what they buy or eat around you, you'll be forced to eat some factory farmed products. My peace of mind is that they're not getting my money, but that might be the only comfort we can get from the compromise.  :-\

Quote from: Opsa on September 15, 2013, 04:06:29 PM
No-one really needs to defend how or what they eat, except maybe someone like Hannibal the Cannibal.

Cannibalism is an ecologically sound strategy, albeit not so healthy unless you screen for prions. ;) :P

Does Chianti kill prions?  :o ;)

Quote from: Opsa on September 16, 2013, 06:10:20 PM
Does Chianti kill prions?  :o ;)

Not by itself. Turning it into vinegar and treating the prions with the boiling product may be ore effective.

That must have been what Hannibal was talking about. But what about the fava beans?

Quote from: Opsa on September 16, 2013, 06:10:20 PM
Does Chianti kill prions?  :o ;)

Pity, Baby Marsala sounded really tasty. :devil2:

Quote from: Swatopluk on September 15, 2013, 04:17:52 PM

Quote from: Opsa on September 15, 2013, 04:06:29 PM
What can I tell them to make them back off?

Become the leader of a powerful cult with direct access to all influential media.

Ronald McDonald?  ;)

Seriously, though... have you tried smiling sweetly and saying "More meat for you..."?  

A lot of people who like meat really like meat, so for them it can be hard to understand why someone doesn't want to eat it. It's like someone saying they didn't like chocolate.

Still, what are they trying to achieve by giving you a hard time? To shame you into eating meat?

I think for some people, meat-eating is a social convention.  Now that we're more widely informed about the realities of meat production, there must be a fair number of people who have some level of discomfort with how meat is produced. If everyone's doing it, it must be OK; however, meeting someone who goes without meat quite happily kind of pulls back the curtain on that convention. If it was impossible to do without eating meat, we'd be justified in eating it, but vegetarians are proof that it's quite possible to not consume meat. It might push up a bit of internal conflict in some people that wish they could go vegetarian but haven't made the effort. This is their problem, not yours.

Quote from: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on September 16, 2013, 01:55:18 AM

Quote from: Aggie on September 15, 2013, 06:23:44 AM
One challenge I'm not sure I'm completely ready to undertake, but would like to, is to completely swear off factory-farmed meat for regular meals.

Strictly speaking, you would have to farm it yourself to be 100% sure...

I meet my meat... I trust that the farmer friends aren't using their chicken coop and pigpen as a front for an underground feeding bunker. ;) The animals are happy and doing their thing all day long.  The chickens get let out to go pick bugs during the day, and the pigs are gorging on veggies and fruit. I might be able to barter something for meat; I barter for my veggies and eggs.

Getting out to the farm isn't really an option in the city, most of the time.  It's a big part of why I moved back home; we live in a fertile, sunny valley and the town is surrounded in all directions by orchards and farms.

Sounds like where I live, Aggie.

I might have suspected that my decision not to eat meat may cause some internal conflict in meat eaters. I will admit that it is partly a quiet protest against meat production, but I do not mean to make people so uncomfortable that they feel they must poke back in defense. I guess I have to accept that they will. It's only human.

Yeah, if they weren't poking back about that they'd be poking back about something else.  There's a base instinct to feel most comfortable when all the people around you share the same practices and opinions as yourself. However, even if that's a base human instinct, I feel that being human is about having the ability to transcend our base instincts and opening ourselves up to the varieties of possibilities and experiences that exist.  We can't do it all ourselves, but we can learn from others who live life differently than we do.

Of course there is no us and them, but them they do not think the same!  :mrgreen:

 :-* RUMBLE!  :-*

The nicest experience is what we attempt here: to learn from each other without necessarily agreeing all the time.

Quote from: OpsaI might have suspected that my decision not to eat meat may cause some internal conflict in meat eaters. I will admit that it is partly a quiet protest against meat production, but I do not mean to make people so uncomfortable that they feel they must poke back in defense. I guess I have to accept that they will. It's only human.

I have to admit that when I met my first vegetarian co-worker, I was surprised. I didn't really have a problem with it, I understood the concept, and I   wasn't consuming much meat; I had just never met one of ... them ... before. (In my own defense, I was in my very early 20's and still had a carp-load of Imposed, Unquestioned Axioms of Normalcy to shed.)

So I made a childish crack about her lunch one day and she cracked right back. No more and no less, and she didn't hold it against me, but clearly she had met *my* ilk before and was prepared. My consciousness was raised in 2-point-6 seconds!

By my 30's I was greeting Spring by switching to a veggie-salad diet for ~3 months, and what I had once sent around came back around for me -- primarily from people with farming or ranching backgrounds who took personal umbrage and thought histrionic insults were an appropriate way to express disapproval of non-compliance.

But that first vegetarian co-worker had a great sense of humor to pair with strong personal convictions. She made fantastic dishes for potlucks, and when asked for the recipe (especially for desserts!) she always smiled angelically and began, "Start with a thin layer of bacon grease..."  Maybe something like that would work around your questioners who are ignorant rather than stupid?

Good idea, PoN. Maybe I could say it's just a temporary whim I've been on since 1975.

I was once offered a piece of meaty pizza which I politely refused, saying I was vegetarian. The woman offering made a sneery face, which I took to read "Oh... one of those people  ::) ." I later found out that her family runs an Angus beef farm around here. I had inadvertently snubbed her way of life. Sometimes you just don't know when you've slapped someone.

Quote from: pieces o nine on September 18, 2013, 03:41:16 AMShe made fantastic dishes for potlucks, and when asked for the recipe (especially for desserts!) she always smiled angelically and began, "Start with a thin layer of bacon grease..." 

Ummm.... some of my desserts start like that.  :-[
Shmaltz works in a pinch.  ;)

...a pinch of schmaltz?

...schmaltz and pepper to taste...

Quote from: Aggie on September 19, 2013, 05:54:54 PM
Shmaltz works in a pinch.  ;)

Quote from: Opsa on September 19, 2013, 07:28:44 PM
...a pinch of schmaltz?

Quote from: pieces o nine on September 20, 2013, 01:49:33 AM
...schmaltz and pepper to taste...

Rubbing schmaltz in my wounds!

Quote from: Aggie on September 19, 2013, 05:54:54 PM
Shmaltz works in a pinch.  ;)

Quote from: Opsa on September 19, 2013, 07:28:44 PM
...a pinch of schmaltz?

Quote from: pieces o nine on September 20, 2013, 01:49:33 AM
...schmaltz and pepper to taste...

Quote from: Opsa on September 20, 2013, 04:04:11 PMRubbing schmaltz in my wounds!

Ye are the schmaltz of the earth...

 :D Just realized I dropped the 'c' in schmaltz, probably as revenge for too many years of people inserting a non-existent 'c' in the same position of my surname.  ;)

They deserves it, the blaggards!!!!  :mrgreen:

Here's a recipe for
VEGETARIAN PAELLA
(from food network)

Total Time:
30 min
Prep:
15 min
Cook:
15 min

Yield:
4 servings

Level:
Easy

CATEGORIES

Vegetables
Main Dish
Simmer

Ingredients

2 teaspoons olive oil
8 ounces soy sausage, cut into 1-inch pieces
2 cloves garlic, minced
1 cup marinated artichoke hearts, quartered
1 cup sliced yellow squash
1 cup baby squash or sliced zucchini
1 cup sliced carrots
1 bunch asparagus, ends trimmed, cut into 2-inch pieces
1/2 cup frozen green peas
14 -ounce can diced tomatoes
6 to 8 saffron threads
1/2 teaspoon paprika
2 bay leaves
2 cups cooked rice
1/2 cup reduced-sodium vegetable broth
1/4 cup chopped fresh parsley leaves
Salt and freshly ground black pepper

Directions

Heat oil in a large paella pan or skillet over medium-high heat.

Add soy sausage and garlic and cook 2 minutes. Add artichokes, squash, zucchini, carrots, asparagus, peas, tomatoes, saffron, paprika, and bay leaves, bring to a simmer and cook 5 minutes. Add rice and broth and cook for 5 minutes, until liquid is absorbed. Remove from heat, remove bay leaves and stir in parsley. Season

Read more at: http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/robin-miller/vegetarian-paella-recipe.html?oc=linkback

That seems pretty good, huh?