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Open Water => Serious Discussion => Politics => Topic started by: pieces o nine on July 04, 2013, 03:01:16 AM

Title: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: pieces o nine on July 04, 2013, 03:01:16 AM
Here we are, celebrating our "freedom" while the news reports a steady stream of naked (and I think that's the right term)  far-Right grabs for power over the bodies of female Americans. They are resorting to ever more outrageous and underhanded tactics that go far, far beyond their dreams hallucinations that a Born-Again Christian Amurka is an abortion-free Amurka -- to outlawing established, female birth control, to shutting down *ALL* the health services in clinics (the 97% of screenings and treatments that have nothing to do with abortion,  leaving poor women at the mercy of Medicare -- also painted as a program for "takers").

This anti-abortion stance is so extreme, it not only does away with exceptions for rape and incest (see recent, infamous clips of faux-pious politicians invoking "God's Will"), but even insisting that a fetus with no "life signs" which will be delivered stillborn must be carried to term.  What about ectopic pregnancies? Some of these bozos (the most humble term I can muster) have attempted to write legislation that women experiencing a miscarriage must report to local law enforcement.  They are attempting laws forcing  women to submit to medically unnecessary ultrasounds or vaginal probes -- for which they must pay (not through insurance either, no ma'am!) which serve no purpose but to humiliate female patients, including those seeking health services other than abortion.

They want to eliminate any form of sex education other than the inherently flawed "Abstinence" in public schools, until they can get rid of public schools altogether. They are passing "Lie to X" bills forcing doctors to lie to patients, lie to rape victims, and teachers to lie to students about the realities of human reproduction. They want to eliminate health care for the poor. They want to eliminate prenatal care, early care for newborns (including vaccinations) and WIC. They want to eliminate assistance programs for developmentally disabled children and their caregivers. They want to eliminate preschool and subsidized school lunches. They want to cut taxes further for the very upper classes -- because they are "Job Creators" -- while outsourcing as many jobs as possible for their own short-term gain. FFS, do they have any concept of what a population explosion of poor, uneducated, subsistence-wage, religiously indoctrinated, unvaccinated and medically untreated people dominated by a tiny, pampered, obscenely wealthy, arrogant upper class looks  like or result in? Nope, probably not. The KJV's 2000+ verses on poverty and social justice just do not resonate with these God-fearing politicians, and the history of the rest of the world is non-applicable here in Amurka.

Simultaneously, many of these Repub legislators are making lightning strikes to further constrict non-repub, non-white, and (coming soon, kids) non-male voter registration -- not to mention actual voting  by the above mentioned sectors.

I cannot fathom how any of this is legal. I am revolted by the people hysterically wailing that they're suffering horrendous, historically unprecedented tyranny if not permitted every weapon imaginable, because it's their "constitutional right," while not having any reaction whatsoever to the dissolution of civil rights on a daily basis.

And I find it obscene that these same "lawmakers" are rubbing their forelegs together at the prospect of sending US troops to fresh, developing hot spots around the globe, to spread their Bizarro World version of Democracy. I am sickened and repulsed by the lot of them.

I don't want to see this for reals in my lifetime.
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/068/281/map_jesusland_liberty.gif)


:soapbox:     :censored:     :headbang:
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Griffin NoName on July 04, 2013, 05:15:04 AM
I do love your long posts. They are a real treat.

But back to topic. It is very hard to believe this is actually happening in first world modern society. I thought we had progressed past the Dark Ages. Wll they introduce the Spanish Inquisition (or rather a look alike)? It is shocking and wicked. They might as well bring back hang,drawn and quartered and heads on spikes at the city boundaries for shoplifting. These people are sick. They should be locked up in asylums for the insane.
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on July 04, 2013, 07:07:24 PM
The trifecta of Evil+Fanatic+Stupid has been a winning combination for the past decade but besides the drivers of the unholy alliance of the rich with the fundies to con the stupid, certain conditions need to be there in the first place to allow it to be successful.

I'll expose my prejudice and say that the very rich are almost by definition evil, they used to limit their lack of empathy to limited actions, but now they shamelessly promote their lack of empathy publicly. I suspect that while the European and Asian rich may express the same unempathetic feelings in private, they tend to moderate themselves in public to avoid backlash.

The fundies are also everywhere, being a fundamentalist is a very comfortable position, "truth has been found and I'm in possession of said truth". Note that you don't have to be a religious fundamentalist to behave idiotically, a good portion of the so-called American libertarians are as fundamentalist in [some of] their views* and promote radical agendas without questioning or critical thinking. On the same token we are bound to get atheist fundamentalists saying and doing stupid things, but for now they are a tiny minority with no power.

The Stupid are in my opinion what makes this whole thing possible, and those are a confluence of substandard education where critical thinking is absent, traditional religious sentiment, which was a driver for the migration to North America, the natural tendency of a portion of the population to be more paranoid than the average, and a history of practical laissez faire during the process of conquest and colonization of the continent, which implies a deep distrust of government and central agencies. Not surprisingly, those elements are easier to find in rural areas, while urban areas can see more directly the effects of laissez faire plus the benefits of the government services.

You could say that the catalyst for the unholy alliance was September 11th but many of the elements have been there since the 70s and 80s, it isn't a coincidence that the children of the "greed is good" generation is now taking the reigns of government and industry.

The good news are that demographics don't favor them in the long run, not only because minorities are becoming majorities, but because rural populations are now a minority as well. On the same token, social trends have kept moving in the same direction, which explains why discrimination against gays is finally dwindling down, so, while women rights have been slow to come, they have been coming and the expectation is that long term the knee jerk reactions of the right will become a sad curiosity as past resistors of civil rights change.

What is difficult to admit is that we have to wait a generation or two for the more recalcitrant right wingers to be replaced for more commonsensical people. The people on top of the right are trying desperately to resist the tide and their more disgusting strategies come to light due to their desperation. They may have (had) some success and possibly delayed the dreaded changes, but they can't stop the flood.

I'm not saying that they aren't doing damage or that they won't do as much damage as they can, only that their view of the world is doomed to fail and their only choice is to transform of die. It may be a cold comfort for those who have to live with their misdeeds, but their time is coming.

*it is lovely to watch them justify their unholy alliance with the religious fundies, while true Randian libertarians are materialists. In the end Machiavellism is a bigger driver than consistency for them.
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Griffin NoName on July 04, 2013, 08:09:36 PM
Quote from: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on July 04, 2013, 07:07:24 PM
I'll expose my prejudice and say that the very rich are almost by definition evil, they used to limit their lack of empathy to limited actions, but now they shamelessly promote their lack of empathy publicly. I suspect that while the European and Asian rich may express the same unempathetic feelings in private, they tend to moderate themselves in public to avoid backlash.

In the Uk most of the government bods are millionnaires +++. They don't moderate themselves in public because they have a better plan. They have subverted the middle class and employed into believing every one who is so poor they need benefits is a shirker, or skiver, all the people who say they are sick which entitles them to benfits, are likewise lying, and all the disabled are too costly to support any longer. The public are so stupid they believe them, they also believe the massaged statistics they put out to support their evil (which can easily be shown to be nonsense, but the public does not respond to corrections). The extent to which the public believe the governments statements is quite simply ludicrous. It is so obvious when they are lying it makes me think a kind of madness has descended on our society.

So, if you can subvert the populace, you don't need to hide your evil opinions.
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Opsa on July 05, 2013, 04:11:46 PM
*rumbling with everyone so far*

I wonder what makes people listen to, agree with, and follow these guys. Is it that The Stupid also want to be rich, so they back the claims of these nutcases, thinking that they will win brownie points with them? Or maybe The Stupid emulate the Nutcases-in-Power in the hopes of finding a more successful mindset?

Can the world support more greedy, stupid people?
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Swatopluk on July 05, 2013, 04:43:53 PM
From what I read, that is indeed the formula: "I will be rich one day and THEN I will not want to pay taxes. => tax cuts for the rich NOW"
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Swatopluk on July 13, 2013, 10:15:38 AM
Some new  sad joke from the abortion front
http://tfninsider.org/2013/07/12/texas-sends-message-to-women-no-respect-and-no-tampons/

And in North Carolina a bill concerning motorcycle safety got a wee bit extended with abortion restrictions
https://www.google.de/search?q=aBORTION%20mOTORCYCLE&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:de:official&client=firefox-a&channel=np&source=hp
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: pieces o nine on July 14, 2013, 06:59:47 AM
Local Repub hopefuls are throwing their hats into the ring in anticipation of the next election cycle, and every single one of them is righteously promising that he [and they are all "he"] WILL NEVER COMPROMISE, by god, neener neener neener.
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Griffin NoName on July 14, 2013, 06:14:23 PM
This Texas abortion stuff all over our newspapers today. The world is watching.
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Swatopluk on July 14, 2013, 08:23:55 PM
Quote from: Griffin NoName on July 14, 2013, 06:14:23 PM
This Texas abortion stuff all over our newspapers today. The world is watching.

And that at a time when even Ireland shows some tiny movement on the topic.
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Griffin NoName on July 15, 2013, 02:33:40 AM
Quote from: Swatopluk on July 14, 2013, 08:23:55 PM
Quote from: Griffin NoName on July 14, 2013, 06:14:23 PM
This Texas abortion stuff all over our newspapers today. The world is watching.

And that at a time when even Ireland shows some tiny movement on the topic.

Indeed. I too noticed the irony.
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith on July 15, 2013, 03:03:01 AM
The Texas fight is leading up to another Supreme Court re-exam of Roe v Wade.
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Griffin NoName on July 15, 2013, 05:06:09 AM
Good to see you Bob.....

Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith on July 15, 2013, 03:59:05 PM
Quote from: Griffin NoName on July 15, 2013, 05:06:09 AM
Good to see you Bob.....



:)
I've been lurking and pondering the various dilemmas-- without anything to contribute, so I sent good vibrations instead.



Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Opsa on July 17, 2013, 03:57:06 PM
Have we even begun to mention the US Repub's  Stand Your Ground (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/07/15/everything-you-need-to-know-about-stand-your-ground-laws/) law?

Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: pieces o nine on July 18, 2013, 05:58:27 AM
Not yet.

I haven't yet discussed the outcome of the TM case, nor the outrage against two dramatically different (and equally morally outrageous) verdicts in two cases hinged on that law antwhere. I was shocked beyond immediate reaction by the TM verdict -- and the pointed comments that George gets his gun back (!) to go right back out keeping the mean streets of his gated community safe for the pale residents therein -- but not surprised by the callous, arrogant Business as Usual ignoring of the peaceful protesters by the Florida legislators, and I am being very careful to not even see clips of Faux News commentary.

I sincerely hope that Eric Holder and the White House show some backbone and use that bully pulpit to do something about these horrendous laws.

Although the following is comedy, the Daily Show brutally summarized the entire outrage. The audience kept laughing, but John Oliver was not playing this for laughs.
[youtube=425,350]jLxHyxtiS2s[/youtube]
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Opsa on July 18, 2013, 03:39:35 PM
That show is the only thing I miss about having satellite TV.

I am bothered by the thought that a woman could be followed by some rapist, turn and confront him, possibly use some sort of physical self-defense, and he could shoot her dead with a gun and get away with it.

I don't think that the Stand Your Ground law has anyone's safety in mind other than that of a gun carrier. I thank TGW that I don't live in a SYG state. I don't want to go to any of those states that have it.
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Swatopluk on July 18, 2013, 04:09:59 PM
SYG has strong incentives for 'leave no witness'.
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on July 18, 2013, 06:45:23 PM
I have the pleasure to live in a state redistricted in a way that allows the a$$hats control of the state senate and not only pass what I would call "Cowboy Wannabe Laws" but to prevent any changes to those (per NRA orders). Note that the enforcement of said laws isn't uniform, it came to my attention the case of the (black) woman who shot a gun in the air to avoid been beaten by her partner and sentenced to 20 years, because having bad laws isn't good enough, we have a prejudiced law enforcement and justice system.

In the end I would think that the a$$hats are a symptom of a larger disease with american society. The fact that so many people vote for them means that there is a good segment of the population that agrees with their views and methods and until that changes we will have to deal with their shiny turds laws and enforcement.
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Opsa on July 18, 2013, 07:38:33 PM
Either that or they're afraid that someone will shoot them and get off scot free if they don't vote for them.

If that woman had shot her husband (instead of into the air) , she would have been okay in the eyes of the law? It was her mercy that convicted her? What does this tell people?
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on July 18, 2013, 07:45:37 PM
I think it would have been worse, not because of the laws themselves but because she is black. Had she been a non-poor white we wouldn't be talking about it.
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Opsa on July 18, 2013, 10:04:38 PM
I wonder how that might have turned out if she'd been a man.
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on July 19, 2013, 02:35:05 AM
Worse for the black man, and I imagine that the record of the white man would define if he went to jail, or not. Of course this is all conjecture, the biggest factor is how good/expensive the defense lawyer is, and as a secondary factor how interested the fiscal office is on the case, that is, if there is a perception that the man should be behind bars the prosecution will use all the resources available, but that point is moot if the defendant has no actual defense (ie, an ill experienced/underpaid/overburdened public defense attorney) because the case would be likely settled out of court, or literally not contested in court, with all the advantage to the prosecution. That applies to all the US of A, BTW.
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Griffin NoName on July 19, 2013, 07:59:33 AM
Am I right?? You can shoot a black man in the street if you get an irrational idea that he may turn round and attack you? It's all just a teensy bit hard to understand.
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on July 19, 2013, 03:27:11 PM
You can if:
-You live in Florida
-You have a conceal carry weapon permit
-The black person is stupid enough to confront you.
-You have a good lawyer.

or

-You are a member of the Police force.
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Opsa on July 19, 2013, 05:46:00 PM
Correction: You can shoot ANYONE whom you feel is threatening you, if you are in a Stand Your Ground state. Whether you get away with it or not is up to what your budget will allow for a defense lawyer.

You may not, however, shoot at the sky if someone is threatening you. Unless, of course, your budget will allow for a fancy defense lawyer.


Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Griffin NoName on July 19, 2013, 06:46:59 PM
Quote from: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on July 19, 2013, 03:27:11 PM
-The black person is stupid enough to confront you.

I thought he wasn't confrontational, it was just an idea that he might be..   ?
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on July 20, 2013, 12:32:22 PM
Nobody knows who actually started throwing punches, what is known is that when Zimmerman was losing the fight he decided to kill the kid.
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Opsa on July 20, 2013, 04:04:54 PM
That's what's so ph***ed up about the law. If you kill the person you suspect to be threatening you, he can't tell his side of the story.

It seems that Zimmerman, if he was armed, was looking for trouble. Normal people don't go for strolls with loaded guns. Paranoid people do.

He should not have followed the kid. He was told not to. I wouldn't follow someone whom I thought was there to make mischief. I might have called the police if I saw someone lurking around, definitely if he was armed. But I would not follow him. Zimmerman knew he had a gun, and he followed this kid. What did he expect to be the outcome? If the kid had started running instead of confronting him, would he have shot him then?

If a strange man was following me, I don't know what I'd do. I have had strange men follow me before. Sometimes I have walked faster and darted into the first shop I could find open. But I have, in some instances, confronted them. Once I was on a subway and a strange man kept following me and actually leaning on me, presumably to cop a feel or something. So finally I announced loudly that this weirdo was touching me and that I didn't appreciate it. He looked very sheepish and faded away into the crowd. Was I threatening to him? Maybe in his eyes I was, since I was calling him on his behavior.
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on July 20, 2013, 07:29:00 PM
If we want to be fair, how do you articulate a proper self defense law? Considering that many of these cases will be low on actual evidence how do you balance the trigger happy vs those legitimately trying to defend themselves? Part of what made the case hard to judge was the uncertainty over Trayvon's ability to actually place the life of Zimmerman in danger (nil in my view but that was the jury's excuse).

So long deadly force is in the cards without repercussions we will hear of more cases like this.
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Swatopluk on July 20, 2013, 07:48:52 PM
In German law there is the special case of Notwehrexzess (excessive self-defense), so there it would have been possible to apply at least some legal culpability below manslaughter or murder.
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Opsa on July 20, 2013, 10:09:03 PM
Does it include excessive use of Skittles?

::)
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Swatopluk on July 20, 2013, 10:28:14 PM
In the hand of a true warrior even a blade of grass becomes a weapon mighty as a sword ;)
For an extremly lethal use of carrors watch Shoot 'em Up
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Opsa on July 21, 2013, 04:41:57 PM
:irony:  :irony:  :irony:  :irony:  :irony:  :irony:  :irony:
Obviously Travon meant to melt the Skittles in his hands and then shove them down Zimmerman's throat, thereby choking him.  
:irony:  :irony:  :irony:  :irony:  :irony:  :irony:  :irony:
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: pieces o nine on July 25, 2013, 03:31:21 AM
Pretty much sums up the deepest dreams of many US repugs...

What's the Matter With North Carolina? (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2013/07/north_carolina_s_voter_id_law_is_the_worst_in_the_country.html)

Quote from: opening statementNorth Carolina is proving itself to be the poster child for all that is wrong with modern American democracy and—with thanks to Moral Mondays—also highlighting all that may someday save it.

Once a temperate and tolerant beacon of the South, the state is poised to enact a rash of inexpressibly awful legislation, rushed through a Republican legislature. Because the GOP has veto-proof super-majorities in the state House and Senate and a Republican governor—for the first time since Reconstruction—the party has been on a spree. Republican-controlled redistricting was fantastically effective. So much so that in the 2012 elections, nearly 51 percent of North Carolina voters picked a Democrat for the U.S. House, yet Republicans won nine of the state's 13 House seats, as Chris Kromm and Sue Sturgis recently pointed out.

Some of the gems advanced recently in the legislature include an abortion bill tacked first onto an anti-Sharia law and then snuck in through a motorcycle safety law (new TRAP regulations may shutter all but one clinic in the state). Another bill forces all educators to teach seventh graders that abortion causes preterm birth (it doesn't). Lawmakers also enacted legislation (described here and elsewhere as "the harshest unemployment insurance program cuts in our nation's history") that resulted in 70,000 North Carolina citizens losing their unemployment benefits. The state is one of the 15 to have refused Medicaid expansion under Obamacare. A proposed education bill would slash teacher compensation, (already ranked among the lowest in the nation), eliminate tenure, and use vouchers to reallocate $90 million of public-school funding to private schools (The school superintendent issued a statement this week saying that in light of the proposed deep cuts to the education budget "For the first time in my career of more than 30 years in public education, I am truly worried about students in our care.") Don't forget the embarrassing proposed resolution allowing counties and cities to enshrine a state religion. Or the proposed ban on nipples.
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Opsa on July 26, 2013, 03:10:30 PM
Do you get the feeling that North Carolina is trying to run all of the less-than-wealthy out of their state on purpose?
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Aggie on July 26, 2013, 03:16:44 PM
Can we pass a bill to put all the wealthy in one state, without the less-than-wealthy?  That'd be...  interesting.

Once robot technology gets good enough to meet all the menial service needs of the rich, expect things to get even worse. :P
Title: Re: What is up with US Repubs?
Post by: Sibling Zono (anon1mat0) on July 26, 2013, 03:24:53 PM
A movie about that dream is coming, Elysium (directed by Neil Blomkamp who did District 9). We're going there at an alarming speed.