U.S. agents question teen

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Here is a nice example of Your Government At Work: (for those of us living in the USofA)

http://www.sacbee.com/101/story/38768.html

Julia Wilson, 14, got a surprise visit from two Secret Service agents Wednesday at McClatchy High after the words "Kill Bush" appeared on MySpace.com. Her mom, Kirstie Wilson, says she should have been present when her daughter was questioned.

[Teripie]

The parents were outraged that the girl was questioned without one of them being present. Guess they don't follow the news very closely. The torture bill recently passed by congress pretty much voids habeas corpus in this country. The girl could have simply been "disappeared" and no one would know why or where she went. In our shiny new way of looking at things, she was lucky.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

The parents were outraged that the girl was questioned without one of them being present. Guess they don't follow the news very closely. The torture bill recently passed by congress pretty much voids habeas corpus in this country. The girl could have simply been "disappeared" and no one would know why or where she went. In our shiny new way of looking at things, she was lucky.

That is an aspect I had not considered - that they could have "ramped it up".

I suppose, in light of Guantanimo Bay, the girl was incredibly lucky. 

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

AFAIK the new law regarding habeas corpus only affects non-american citizens. IOW, they could take me or members of my family indefinitively with the exception of my wife (who is a citizen).

Although I have most my papers for the process, I am seriously considering leaving the country, if not immediately in a not so distant future.

[Sibling Lambicus the Toluous]

I'm of two minds...

On the one hand, I don't think this girl is a threat to anyone. 

On the other hand, just because a MySpace profile says "Female, 14" doesn't necessarily mean it's so.  And I've also got a fresh memory of news reports on the recent events in Montreal, where it came out after the fact that the shooter had posted statements about his fantasies of murdering someone and dying young.  After the shooting, various people were criticized for not acting when the "warning signs" were shown.

On the gripping hand (and a slight non-sequitir to my two other points above), the suspension of habeas corpus for non-citizens freaks me out whenever I travel to the US.  I realize that I'm... well... too white, too Canadian, and too... "unterrorist-y" to fit into whatever profile they're looking for, but it still makes me uneasy to know that the reason I'm not sitting in an American jail indefinitely isn't because of any overarching principles of justice, but merely because I haven't piqued the interest of the authorities.

[beagle]

You don't have to be terroristy to be scared of American justice these days. Heads of internet gambling operations (perfectly legal here) have been arrested in the US. Employees of banks linked to the Enron scandal have been extradited to the U.S., even when accused of defrauding their UK employer, from within the UK,(who didn't claim they had). Do a search for "NatWest 3" for details. Under laws, incidentally, pushed through to fight terrorism.

There is increasing concern over this exported justice, and more and more companies have staff they wouldn't dare send to the States, or to places where their flight could be diverted to States.

It's not doing the US any favours either. I gather New York's Mayor Bloomberg is getting increasingly worried by the volume of international business moving to London to escape US regulation/laws/foreigner paranoia.

[Sibling Lambicus the Toluous]

According to recent news reports, Maher Arar, a Syrian-born Canadian citizen who was arrested in the US in 2002 and underwent "extraordinary rendition" to Syria where he was imprisoned for a year and tortured, has won a human rights award from a US-based organization.  Apparently, he will be accepting it by video, having taken a "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me" position on entering the US.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

AFAIK the new law regarding habeas corpus only affects non-american citizens. IOW, they could take me or members of my family indefinitively with the exception of my wife (who is a citizen).

Actually, your wife is just as much in danger as anyone.

The new law does allow American citizens to be "arrested" under the terrorist act, and detained indefinitely.  Several of the "most dangerous" detainees in Guantanamo were US citizens, according to the news bit I heard about this.

All they need to do, to hold a person indefinitely, without trial, without a lawyer, etc, is declare that person "enemy combatant" -- or someone AIDING an enemy combatant ...

The law is SO loosely written, that aiding is NOT defined very well - so, next time someone stops you in the street, and asks for directions -- you MAY wish to reconsider giving them "aid". 

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Yeah, I forgot the 'Enemy Combatant' bit.

Up until yesterday I thought of the policies as in risk of becoming semi-fascist or something of the sort.

I heard the news of the proposals in Congress and I had the hope that it would stop there.

Now I hear that the law will be tested in the supreme court at some point. With the new appointments I am not confident at all.

Yesterday I realized that no euphemism is valid anymore: The US has become a fascist state, and from now on I only expect things to deteriorate even further.

I already lost my faith in the electoral system when exit polls gave Kerry as the winner and suddenly it was the other way around.

Heck, in theory I have nothing to fear, right? I'm a law abiding.. erm, Non-citizen (non-person?) who pays taxes and works every day, surely they will not go against me...

As ironic it may seem, I'm starting to feel safer in Colombia. At least habeas corpus is constitutional law there.

[Sibling Lambicus the Toluous]

As ironic it may seem, I'm starting to feel safer in Colombia. At least habeas corpus is constitutional law there.

When I first heard someone put forward the argument that "person" in the Bill of Rights means "citizen", that's when I started to get really worried.

[Teripie]

On last night's program Keith Olbermann did a brilliant Commentary on the new  that Shrub signed  yesterday. Here's a link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15321167/ 
I need to stop watching this guy's show. It really depresses me.
Snip:

And if you somehow think habeas corpus has not been suspended for American citizens but only for everybody else, ask yourself this:  If you are pulled off the street tomorrow, and they call you an alien or an undocumented immigrant or an "unlawful enemy combatant," exactly how are you going to convince them to give you a court hearing to prove you are not?  Do you think this attorney general is going to help you?

[DISCO GODZILLAJESUSZ]

With these law's getting passed every day one can only wonder the degree of insanity this country will escalade to in the next 10 years if the  Republican party continues to persue it's fascist agenda. Living in a Red state I am particularly worried.

I mean when I am 18 I'm probably going to go live in Toronto if this shit keeps happening.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

With these law's getting passed every day one can only wonder the degree of insanity this country will escalade to in the next 10 years if the  Republican party continues to persue it's fascist agenda. Living in a Red state I am particularly worried.

I mean when I am 18 I'm probably going to go live in Toronto if this shit keeps happening.

Canada has always been on my "backdoor" list, just in case.  I can drive to Canada, if need be.

But Australia is the country of choice, if I'm given a choice.  I suppose it's very likely that I'm in a bit of dreamland about the place, but all that wide-open space has a strong appeal.

If only I didn't have so many friends and family living in the USofA ...

[Sibling Spoffish]

But Australia is the country of choice, if I'm given a choice.  I suppose it's very likely that I'm in a bit of dreamland about the place, but all that wide-open space has a strong appeal.

While I feel very safe here and by no means want to put you off...

We have a very similar law regarding habeas corpus. The government/police are entitled to imprison you for up to 2 weeks, without telling anyone and without charge.  Don't you just love governments who make a big kerfuffle about something else while they slip through new laws like that...

Oh, wait... I just looked it up on Wiki and apparently it's only for 24 hours. Well, that makes me feel slightly better...  Is the US law indefinite?

[Teripie]

The US law is indefinate and so broad you can drive a 747 thoguh it. It really is the proverbial "blank check" for Bush and buddies. They can now "dissappear" anyone who displeases them.