Chamomile Tea Party Posters

[Opsa]

I read about these in the Washington Post recently. The Chamomile Tea Party is against partisan politics in the USA and has created posters for their cause in the style of the great commie propaganda posters of yesteryear. I gotta say, some of them are brilliant IMHO.

[Griffin NoName]

Interesting. Noticed a "commenter" found the posters too aggressive, which I think they have to be.

[pieces o nine]

Why haven't I seen these before?
Because no one was screaming about them, I guess...

Some good posters in that group!

[Opsa]

The group managed to have this one put up in the DC metro, in lit-from within electric billboards.

I love the anti-party messages. They really ring true. And in true commie fashion, any of those posters are free to download from the website.

I do want to note, however, that much of the art is actually taken from US generated posters from the 1950's, and not commie posters. Does that make them "cappie" propaganda?

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Yea, Opsa, I recognized much of the art, having seen it in it's original form (no, not original-original... I'm not that old) in discussions of WW2 era and the post-war dramatic changes that were a result of women discovering they could work outside the home.  And they liked it that way.  Nothing's been the same, since. 

Which is good.

Unfortunately, some menfolk would see us return to pre-50's state, where women were confined to stay-at-home or other menial tasks.   (I'm looking at you, rethugs)

I think the posters are not over the top-- you need to speak in a loud voice these days, or nobody takes you seriously.

... meh.

[Opsa]

I agree with you, Bob. I very much admire what this artist is saying.

Our two-party system in the USA is not working for us any more. Whichever party is in power can't get things done because the other party is so busy trying to snag them up so they look bad in the next election. It stinks!

[Griffin NoName]

Yeh, well, look at our three party system!

actually I suppose it's >3 nowadays what with the greens and ukip etc

[Opsa]

Well, technically we're supposed to be more than two-party here as well, what with the libertarians and the independants, as well as the odd communist, green or very-silly-indeed party offerings. But many of us feel that voting for anyone other than the republicans or democrats is throwing a vote to the opposing party.

So what's the solution?

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Well, technically we're supposed to be more than two-party here as well, what with the libertarians and the independants, as well as the odd communist, green or very-silly-indeed party offerings. But many of us feel that voting for anyone other than the republicans or democrats is throwing a vote to the opposing party.

So what's the solution?

I'm very afraid that Shakespeare had it right, way back when:   "first, we hang all the lawyers"

Or more accurately, revolution.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

I disagree with the general idea that the parties are on extreme and opposite positions, there is a party that goes beyond Giovanni Gentile's wildest dreams, and a party to the right of ol' Ronnie R. that likes to think it is really progressive. There is no left in this country, at all.

Just think that the so-called commie healthcare reform is a carbon copy of a system implemented by a Republican on MA (who now claims that he had nothing to do with it ), a true lefty position would be a single payer financed with a general tax, but that is communism according to some, so no, there is no left. Worse of all the center-right party (democrats) do compromise and let the fundies get away with so much stuff that it isn't funny anymore.

Obama may win this round but a more balanced political system it's generations away.

[Swatopluk]

Yeah, according to one of the parties Otto von Bismarck was a commie who brought the scourge of social security and universal health insurance into the world. But since Hitler too was a commie (according to the same party) that is not actually a surprise.

[pieces o nine]

I have to agree with Sibling Zono on this one. In an effort to be "fair" too many liberals and progressives [in my opinion] are too eager to embrace the "both sides are equally bad" motif. It's been true in the past, it will probably be true again in the future, but it is not true here and now. As the US political Left keeps "compromising" and "meeting half-way" we are becoming a three-party nation: Right, Far-Right, and Off-the Charts Right. Meanwhile, a disturbingly high percentage of the US population actually claims to believe that we have the most radically liberal president in the history of the World!1ZOMG!!!!

Nonetheless, I applaud the CTP's premise that people are fed-up with vicious polarization. Fed up enough to not vote for those who promise to go further? We'll see...

[Aggie]

Meanwhile, a disturbingly high percentage of the US population actually claims to believe that we have the most radically liberal president in the history of the World!1ZOMG!!!!

Image-wise, I suppose it could look that way. On the ground, he makes Harper look like Jack Layton.  

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

At least he hasn't made any attempt of perpetuating himself in the job as Harper...

[Aggie]

There are no term limits up here, so we don't worry much about that notion.  Canadians are fickle enough that we'll vote the rotters out if they try too much (perceptions that the Liberals were making back-door deals with business largely did them in; we don't mind supporting social programs with our tax dollars, but we get pretty testy if we catch the government pissing it away to private interests).

The Conservative Party, as an entity, has only technically been around for 9 years.  However, if one reads between the lines, they started out as the Conservative Party in 1867, modified it to the Progressive Conservative Party in 1942, and decided to not bother with being progressive as of 2003.

<sub>Side Note: Perhaps the reason that Canadians lean to the left and Americans lean to the right has to do with party names.  A liberal party sounds more fun than a conservative one, to me. 

As for the US?  At least Republican includes the word 'pub' in it.</sub>   

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Pub, well when they're not drunk with power they have an unquenchable thirst for it...

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Yeah, but "Republican" is actually pronounced "Rethuglican"....

[Aggie]

That has mass appeal, as well.

[Swatopluk]

In Rome the publicani were the tax farmers, i.e. the private people/companies that collected (i.e. extorted) the taxes for the state for profit. They payed the sum in advance to the state and then got their's back with interest from the taxpayers.
Privatizing the IRS would be the wet dream of GOPsters and their paymasters. In other words, they want to re-publicanize the US.

[pieces o nine]

Privatizing the IRS would be the wet dream of GOPsters and their paymasters. In other words, they want to re-publicanize the US.

Don't forget: Jesus hung out with the prostitutes and the publicans, and if it was good enough for Jesus, by God, it's good enough for God's Own Party.

[Swatopluk]

We are just not told, whether it was upper-class hetairas or low-level whores (and whether they did drugs too)

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

They do use prostitutes, but are far away from legalizing the profession or protect them in any way.
--
The Ferengi (from Star Trek) are more honest in their intentions.

[Swatopluk]

That would shift the power relations.
Btw, I was talking about the biblical ladies of negotiable affection not the GOP camp followers

[Griffin NoName]

Btw, I was talking about the biblical ladies of negotiable affection not the GOP camp followers

Yes, I was a little concerned when Zono started using the present tense

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Publicans -> whores or hetairas
Republicans -> prostitutes or escorts?

Where did I stray?

[Swatopluk]

Btw, I was talking about the biblical ladies of negotiable affection not the GOP camp followers

Yes, I was a little concerned when Zono started using the present tense

Well, we live in the End Times, don't we?

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Well, we live in the End Times, don't we?

LOL!

Indeed we do... only, it's not what the religious people think at all.

We've reached the age of information-exchange.  What that will end up doing to us as a global culture?  Remains to be seen.  But it won't be slow...

[Griffin NoName]

The million dollar question has to be: will there be enough evidence in a million million years that it was homo sapians that caused this cycle of global warming?

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

The million dollar question has to be: will there be enough evidence in a million million years that it was homo sapians that caused this cycle of global warming?

Well, even concrete only lasts a few hundred years-- a bit more, if the conditions are very dry.

So, by a thousand years post-humanity, there'll be nothing left of us to study.   What is even more ironic?  The earliest writing used stone-- the longest-lasting media.  The latest stuff?  Doesn't even use material things-- electrons "stored" in an electronic memory-bank....

... those future archeologists may conclude we never made it out of the stone age at all ...

[Swatopluk]

Roman concrete is still there after two millennia and there are wooden artifacts from the stone age that preceded the Roman age by a few years ( )
The archaeologists will hve to dig a bit but there will be enough remains of modern stuff to at least conclude that there once were stored electrons in use here. But they will be spared celebrity sex tapes which should count as a plus.
There is that hypothesis that we cannot make contact with aliens because they got our broadcasts first and concluded that they would not have anything to do with us based on the 'quality'of that.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Please don't scare us, because if they have the quality of our transmissions as a way to judge us it won't take long for the Vogons to show up with their yellow fleet.

[Swatopluk]

Oh du zerfrettelter Grunzwanzling
Dein Harngedränge ist mir als wie Schnatterfleck auf Bienenstich
Grupp, ich beschwöre dich, mein punzig Turteldrom
Und kränge reifig dich mit krinklen Bindelwördeln
Sonst werd ich rändern dich in deine Gobberwarzen
Mit meinem Börgelkranze
Wart's nur ab!

To be able to recite that from memory was a thing of pride at school.

Edit: checking from references show that there are some minor mistakes
It should be without als in the second line
drängel instead of kränge in the 4th
mich instead if dich in the same line
dich before rändern instead of after in the 5th (although I am quite sure that the audio recording has it like I have it)

[Opsa]

That's not Vogon poetry, is it?

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

It sounds quite Vogon after google translate...

[Swatopluk]

It's the translation of Adam's rendition of Prostetnik Vogon-Yeltz' poem that he read to Arthur and Ford

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

The vogonity!

[Opsa]

Heaven help us all! 

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Roman concrete is still there after two millennia and there are wooden artifacts from the stone age that preceded the Roman age by a few years ( )
The archaeologists will hve to dig a bit but there will be enough remains of modern stuff to at least conclude that there once were stored electrons in use here. But they will be spared celebrity sex tapes which should count as a plus.
There is that hypothesis that we cannot make contact with aliens because they got our broadcasts first and concluded that they would not have anything to do with us based on the 'quality'of that.

Indeed: if the conditions are right, a bit more (as I said).

Most concrete is made from the traditional formula, and is for all practical matter, artificial limestone with mixed rocks as an aggregate.   Sometimes the aggregate is limestone too-- meaning the whole thing is subject to water erosion (limestone is considered porous, as is bare concrete).

But if the location is quite dry, as in a desert?  The concrete could conceivably last several thousand years or so, such as what we have with the Romans' works.   Also, if the concrete is protected by other, more water-resistant materials, then obviously it lasts longer too.  Or of the water going through/around it is mildly alkali, having passed through alkali-beds of minerals, it tends to not eat away the 'crete as fast.

But a million years?  Nope-- I'd bet real money, none of the various formulas will last that long, unless buried pretty well.  And even then, not in a rain-heavy area.

Metals will last even less than concrete/wood, as pure metal is not a natural state-- the atoms that make up metals "prefer" to be in a lower energy state than in pure metal, with a few rare exceptions (lead being one).   So most metals will decay away to their "rust" versions of oxidized salts, many of which are water soluble, and would wash away after a million or so years, leaving not even a trace.

Certain plastics could conceivably survive for a million years or so, if buried deeply enough.   But near the surface, both oxygen and ultra-violet light break plastics down into their edible parts (edible by microbes that is).

Glasses?  Those will likely still be around, as will ceramics of all sorts, especially if buried out of direct sunlight's corrosive effects.   

So, in a million years or so?  Deposits of ceramic tiles will still be around, clustered around a central ceramic ceremonial pot of an oddly but seemingly functional shape.   Future archeologists may well conclude that humans each had a central (some having two or three) shrine to give offerings to some unknown deities.    A lessor offering basin is frequently found nearby too.  And in some of the shrines, a really large, rectangular basin can be found as well-- often next to the more common one.   And in some of the larger dwellings, there are a whole set of these worship-shrines in a row, one after another-- perhaps these future-historians will conclude that worship was a solitary and private affair with the long-extinct human animal, such that there needed to be a whole set of these worship-shrines where there were large numbers of humans.

Clearly, these shrines were made to simulate caves of some sort, as the simulated stone linings in the form of ceramic squares are often seen deposited around the central ceremonial basin...

...

[Swatopluk]

You have not by chance read "Das Geheimnis der Gräber von Usa" (The secret of the Usa tombs)?
I don't know whether that was originally English or German.
It's about a future archeologist that discovers a buried motel of the mysterious Usa culture and interprtes the findings in a similar way.

The easiest way for any alien explorers to find out that there must have been a culture here that reached the atomic age is the relation of certain stable isotopes like those of lithium. Atomic testing has shifted that enough that chemists have to consider it when doing mass calculations (it's enough to literally tip the scales).The aliens do not even have to stumble over our radioactive waste to notice it.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

That's a very good point.

Even the Van Allen belts (natural belts of radiation around the earth, up in space) have new, artificial layers from atmospheric testing of atomic bombs.

Iron is effected too-- a good chemist can date when iron was smelted, as from pre-atomic and post-atomic, just from the percent of radioactive iron isotopes (a very tiny fraction of a percent, but measurable).

So much so, that pre-atomic iron sheets are literally priceless for use in certain testing facilities as shielding....

[Griffin NoName]

I can tell a lot about myself from the lines in the palm of my hand

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

I can tell a lot about myself from the lines in the palm of my hand

I've no doubt.

Unfortunately, modern politicos are never much interested in introspection, rather preferring to worry about getting more power and privilege for themselves instead...

[Opsa]

This, of course, is not limited to the modern politicos.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

This, of course, is not limited to the modern politicos.

Well, of course.  This is why all modern religions are so very, very messed up.... corrupted by power.



One of the reasons why the Quaker movement hasn't succumbed to this corruption, I strongly suspect, is they very early on, structured their power such that, no single or group of individuals has authority over anyone else.  A model to be admired, even if I don't particularly believe in gods.  There is clearly some value in ritual, meditation and introspection that the Quaker attitude seems to encourage.

If only the others would take note...

.... yeah, right...

[Opsa]

Thank you for the nice words about Quakers. I have a bunch of Quaker liberal relatives and they are very cool people who organize to do some good in their community without putting any self-righteous godlygook into it. I like them.

Weirdly enough, some people seem to think that Quakers are "backward". I think they have them mixed up with Mennonites, who eschew modern technology. But they have their own reasons to do so, which I think I can respect.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

I've run into any number of quakers over the years-- I always found that I respected the heck out of them, even if I didn't always agree.  I even ran into a quaker who was atheist/agnostic... and made no pretense about otherwise.  As near as I could tell, the others in her group accepted and respected her as much as anyone else. To her, the ritual and the meditation was an end in and of itself, and saw no need for anything beyond the moment/experiences therein.

I can easily understand that point of view myself-- I used to meditate a bit.  Alas, my mind is so very busy, it's difficult for me to do, without "medication" of some sort.  Since I've pretty much become a tee-tottler, due to a variety of reasons (none of which are religious), I've also given up meditation-- not that I did it all that much outside of weekend retreats/camp settings.

But yeah, I can easily admire the quakers.   The mennonites?  not so much-- they are rather hypocritical from my viewpoint; they claim to give up modernism, yet they are all too happy to enjoy the fruits therein, so long as someone else is doing the work...

... the funniest thing I saw, was a mennonite buggy (horse-powered, of course) in the drive-through lane at McDonald's .... !!!   Riiiight...

[Aggie]

Hmm, the Mennonites up here aren't especially suspicious of technology, that I've seen, nor are the Hutterites. I admire the latter's business model as an example of viable communism (they turn a good profit and are constantly acquiring more land to farm), although I'm not a fan of the cultural restrictions and control that make it possible.

[Bob in a quantum-state-of-faith]

Hmm, the Mennonites up here aren't especially suspicious of technology, that I've seen, nor are the Hutterites. I admire the latter's business model as an example of viable communism (they turn a good profit and are constantly acquiring more land to farm), although I'm not a fan of the cultural restrictions and control that make it possible.

I must admit, my exposure to the mennonites is rather limited, and somewhat observational, rather than personal.   I do have a cousin who converted somewhat, but it appears to be a case of cafeteria-style, as he made a career as an IT tech/admin person.  Hardly the minimalist approach. 

He and I used to be close, back when we were kids, but distance & time, I doubt I'd recognize him on the street these days.  Haven't spoken to him in years.