Limits of Toleration

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Nice argument: a mature society should be able to cope with their lunatics by pointing out the obvious flaws from their arguments, the question is how mature are our societies? When Glenn Beck starts foaming making racist comments how many of his viewers are capable to qualify his statements? The fact that he is mocked by some isn't enough to counteract the damage he does everyday he goes in the air, yet he is free to utter his 'speech' with little* or no consequence.

*some sponsors decided to pull their adds from his program but not all by any means.

[Griffin NoName]

Surely the question is whether such speech leads to mob rule?

[Swatopluk]

Unfortunately the worst offenders have good lawyers that tell them exactly where the limits are, i.e. where they could be held legally liable, if someone acts on their thinly veiled instigation.
And O'Reilly has what is known over here as a Jagdschein (hunting permit). Someone tried to sue him for libel but the court told the plaintiff that O'Reilly was so pathological a liar that knowledge and evil intent would be impossible to prove at the same time. In other words, O'Reilly is certifiably insane enough to be beyond the court's reach as far as libel etc. was concerned.
And if O'Reilly is insane then Glenn Beck clearly is too. Unfortunately spewing metaphorical bile does not cause throat cancer or there would be hope that they would lose their voices  in the forseeable future.
And then there are Rush and 'Whiner' Savage. The former definitely is aware of his own scumitude (and even recorded one or two songs about it). The latter... I don't know but he better should not set foot on German soil. No, not because I would await him with some nasty surprises (although it would be tempting) but because German courts could be quite interested in him (and he is to my knowledge not a Roman Catholic archbishop which would give him jester's licence).

[Scriblerus the Philosophe]

I would love to have a word or three with Mr. Savage. Also, I love that O' Reilly is considered crazy over there.

Nice argument: a mature society should be able to cope with their lunatics by pointing out the obvious flaws from their arguments, the question is how mature are our societies? When Glenn Beck starts foaming making racist comments how many of his viewers are capable to qualify his statements? The fact that he is mocked by some isn't enough to counteract the damage he does everyday he goes in the air, yet he is free to utter his 'speech' with little* or no consequence.

*some sponsors decided to pull their adds from his program but not all by any means.

Our society is much, much better than it used to be, but we're still not there. OTOH, most people talk the talk, but don't walk the walk. If it requires them to do something, it will almost never get done and the thing about TV and radio, is that the audience Beck may stir up is spread out across the country so mobs are unlikely. A single person on a froth-inspired mission is also unlikely, since again, people are unlikely to act on beliefs because it requires them to step out of their rut. Armchair hatred is much easier than actively hurting others. Plus, armchair-ing it is legal, whereas such actions are not.

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

Erm, have you heard of the so-called 'tea parties' or the psychos hijacking townhall meetings? They are doing much more than encouraging armchair hate, they are actively mobilizing them. Besides, if something has been proved over and over is that it only takes one committed individual to do significant damage.

I don't think the Limbaughs and Becks of this world should be underestimated in their capacity to do (or actively encourage) damage. 

[Swatopluk]

About the only things they have not (yet*) accused Obama of are sexual deviation** and child pornography (consumption and production thereof).
Claims of murder*** and mob criminality were already made (and I think drugs too).

*to my knowledge
**that was aimed at Hilary Clinton including claims that Chelsea was the result of rape
***ironically parts of the list consisted of former alleged Clinton victims and some others are still alive and well

[Aggie]

(and I think drugs too)

That one's not an accusation, it's an admission.


At least he's honest about it, unlike some preznits.

[Swatopluk]

The question is consumption or dealing.
I guess Obama got the drugs from Bill Ayers and sold them during Rev. Wright's services.

[Scriblerus the Philosophe]

Erm, have you heard of the so-called 'tea parties' or the psychos hijacking townhall meetings? They are doing much more than encouraging armchair hate, they are actively mobilizing them. Besides, if something has been proved over and over is that it only takes one committed individual to do significant damage.

I don't think the Limbaughs and Becks of this world should be underestimated in their capacity to do (or actively encourage) damage. 

I actually forgot about the Tea Baggers. The tea parties themselves weren't anything, it what their participants are doing /now/ is. And so far as I know, they're just verbally hijacking things...which is frustrating but I don't think we have any right to stop them from doing it, especially since there hasn't been any active violence that I've heard of.

[Aggie]

Tea Baggers or Tea-Birthers?  The few I've run into online seem to support both 'movements'.

[Swatopluk]

Not to forget the Tenthers, the Deathers and the new group that hasn't yet an official name, since Concentration Campers simply has the false ring (I'd propose KZers, pronounced kay-zetters).
Then there are the Hoaxters* (closely related to the Hucksters*).

*organized "climate change is the greatest hoax in human history" proponents (currently in league with the Beck to bring down Obama's scientific team)
**the followers of Mike Huckabee, increasingly radicalized

[Sibling Zono (anon1mat0)]

A part of me thinks that a huge convention should be organized in Alaska to mobilize all of them there and then close the borders, then they can declare their precious independence and live happily ever after. 

[Griffin NoName]

That's a splendid idea. Segregate anyone who claims to be of pure race.

Meanwhile we have this going on.

[Aggie]

We had a bit of that back in March:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/2009/03/21/cgy-racism-clash.html?ref=feh



The difference here is that most of our local racists grew up in small towns with no 'forners' except the family who ran the Chinese restaurant, so they can't actually identify and single out any particular immigrant group.  They just stick to "Yay for White People". 


Apparently the groups were unevenly sized by quite a bit.... 50 Aryan Guard members tried to counter-protest a 400 person march by the Anti-Racist Action group. The police had to step in and keep them from getting killed*. 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourvoice/yourvideo/index.html?playlistId=435b12adba3929ff22fa9d82a12d4ae75ef82e2a&videoId=3930276


_{*some of the commentaries I saw on news stories at the time lamented the police "defending" the Aryans; I just think they needed to step in to keep someone's (skin)head from getting kicked in. The Calgary Police Force do a great job overall.}

[Scriblerus the Philosophe]

Tea Baggers or Tea-Birthers?  The few I've run into online seem to support both 'movements'.

Hadn't heard the second one. But I like it.

That's a splendid idea. Segregate anyone who claims to be of pure race.

Meanwhile we have this going on.

Oh, that's lovely on both counts.